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ITTOD - Why is this the most disliked album of Led Zeppelin?


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Well, to me is one of their worst albums. I don't like very much the change of direction. In the group of "songs I dislike" I will put: Carouselambra, Hot Dog, Fool In The Rain and South Bound Suarez, but All My Love, In The Evening and I'm Gonna Crawl are great songs. So it would be a good album for another band but for LZ I and more exigent. The cover is beautiful by the way. :)

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Enjoying a Pimm's Cup at Old Absinthe House in honor of ITTOD's 35th birthday!

Cheers!

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Ahh, that is so awesome. Well done Ddladner. :)

On another note it's very interesting to see the reception that this thread got since I started it so long ago. I guess the topic made for some good discussion.

Edited by IzzyBlues
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Gave it another spin today and it brings back good memories.Playing it more than other Zep cds at the moment.Things may change when 1V and Houses deluxe sets come out. Looking forward to the deluxe of ITTOD.By this time recording studios and techniques had progressed and what was recorded on four track(Sgt.Pepper)or eight track in the past was now stretched out to 48 track or more which gave artists the chance to record more overdubs.Page might have another solo for Hot Dog!It couldn't be any worse than the original!

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"Page might have another solo for Hot Dog!It couldn't be any worse than the original!"

I couldn't disagree more. Every Page solo on that album is brilliant, including Hot Dog.....playful and loose......that song always makes me smile. Zeppelin wouldn't be zeppelin without songs like the crunge and boogie with stu and candy store rock and loving lovin maid and D'yer Mak'e and hot dog.....it's that playful side of the band that I love so much !!!

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"Page might have another solo for Hot Dog!It couldn't be any worse than the original!"

I couldn't disagree more. Every Page solo on that album is brilliant, including Hot Dog.....playful and loose......that song always makes me smile. Zeppelin wouldn't be zeppelin without songs like the crunge and boogie with stu and candy store rock and loving lovin maid and D'yer Mak'e and hot dog.....it's that playful side of the band that I love so much !!!

Agreed. Hot Dog sounds like a simple song, but it's really anything but. It is actually quite complex, and not a tune that the average person could play, on first blush, without some effort and familiarization. Whole Lotta Love on the other hand.......... Edited by The Dark Lord
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One of my faves from this CD is South Bound Saurez. It retains that dry funk that was all over presence. Its so tight, Jimmy squeezes his guitar tone until its practically black and white! No frills or colour on it, just the funk. His soloing on this sounds like the buzzing of an insect. Love Page on this, skeletal, dry, straight to the point, absolutely nothing else.

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at this stage jimmy page was strung out on heroin most of the ideas came from jpj ,with page becoming almost a session player again, no disrespect to jpj he was discovering electronic keyboards etc,add plants lower vocal range and you get ittod, saying that bonham was always on the button and i love some of the songs .

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Enjoying a Pimm's Cup at Old Absinthe House in honor of ITTOD's 35th birthday!

Cheers!

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That is too cool for school! Most excellent.

I have a few questions regarding the packaging of ITTOD.

We know there were 6 different covers, but was one cover variation used more than the others? Or were there equal amounts of Covers A, B, C, D, E, and F shipped to record stores?

Whenever I come across used ITTODs in the shops or the swaps, I tend to see covers B and E most often.

When the new remastered ITTOD is released next year, will they only use one cover or will they use all six varients complete with brown paper bag? Maybe only the Super Deluxe Box will have all 6 and the bag?

I'm very curious how Jimmy will handle the packaging of the new ITTOD remaster.

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I worked in a record shop when it came out and we ordered 150 copies.There were a few Zep freaks who wanted all six copies(myself included).I seem to remember that each cover came in lots of twenty or twenty five out of the packing box.Also two tubes came with 10 promo posters.These were the picture of the band standing in the field.The boss gave me one tube with five posters.Stuffed if I know what I did with it but i sure don't have it today.

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I worked in a record shop when it came out and we ordered 150 copies.There were a few Zep freaks who wanted all six copies(myself included).I seem to remember that each cover came in lots of twenty or twenty five out of the packing box.Also two tubes came with 10 promo posters.These were the picture of the band standing in the field.The boss gave me one tube with five posters.Stuffed if I know what I did with it but i sure don't have it today.

Here's mine:

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I worked in a record shop when it came out and we ordered 150 copies.There were a few Zep freaks who wanted all six copies(myself included).I seem to remember that each cover came in lots of twenty or twenty five out of the packing box.Also two tubes came with 10 promo posters.These were the picture of the band standing in the field.The boss gave me one tube with five posters.Stuffed if I know what I did with it but i sure don't have it today.

Sweet story. Wished I had worked at a record store in the 70s..imagine the swag you'd have!

So of course after my post about always seeing B and E, I go into Amoeba and they have two used ITTODs...A and C! Haha.

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Edited by Strider
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In Through The Out Door suffers from several problems:

1) It's Not Guitar Driven

Led Zeppelin was, for all their history, a guitar driven band. Part of the band's appeal was Page's heavy riffs and epic soloing, and by the mid-late 70s, his "Guitar Army" assault of layered guitars. Even on songs where there's lush orchestral arrangements, or experimental keyboard led numbers like No Quarter, Page's guitar still dominated the sound. You go from 1976 with Presence, which is nothing less than an utterly hard rocking, urgent, frenetic guitar based album...To an album dominated by keyboards and the piano. There are no sweeping epic guitar solos, and Page's really memorable contributions are few. A guitar based band suddenly does a 180 where the guitars are really pushed to the background.

2) It's wildly inconsistent.

Musically speaking, Out Door is all over the place, which can be quite confusing and frustrating for listeners expecting the trademark Zeppelin sound, which you can argue was laid out in full detail on Graffiti and Presence. In Through the Out Door tries to be a whole bunch of things at once, throws a lot of different, cool ideas at the wall to see which would stick. You have an epic synth and keyboard dominated number here, then a light hearted pop rock piano driven song there, and then a laid back keyboard driven quasi-reggae number, then a rough tribute to Rockabilly over here (which compared to their past rockers seems undercooked somehow--too raw), then a long, winding prog rock song dominated by synthesizers, a synth dominated pop ballad next, wrapping it up with a laid back, long blues number, again overflying with synthesizers.

There's no singular sound to the album that the album latches on to. You could argue the same for Physical Graffiti, except that it's a double album and double albums are generally known for being all over the place, it's kind of expected.

3) It plays it safe.

There are no wild hip shaking moments to be found here. You'll tap your toes to Hot Dog, sure...But there's no song like Rock N' Roll or Houses of the Holy or Royal Orleans or Black Dog or even a funky innuendo laden number like Trampled Underfoot. There's no sex, really, outside of Hot Dog I suppose, there's not really even any real rock songs again outside of Hot Dog. There's nothing that could inspire controversy or shock. Out Door is a very muted album in comparison, a mature album for a maturing and less enthusiastic band that had just endured 4 years of mishaps and tragedy. And a 16 year old kid in 1979 who loves Zeppelin for songs like Black Dog or the dirtiness of Custard Pie isn't going to be pleased with a mature, safe album, and Out Door plays it safe. It's the musical equivalent to the tail end of a great high.

4) It was the last album, and was followed by tragedy.

I believe Out Door, had Zeppelin remained together, would have been a transitional album, much like III was. III bridged the hard, bluesy rock of Zeppelin with their emerging experimental and folk sides. I believe Out Door would've bridged Zeppelin into the '80s with a newer sound and a next record might have been a second Zoso--Where the traditional Zep sound and this new style gel together to form one new sound. As I said earlier, no one track sounds the same. There are many great ideas at work here and the band probably could've gone to great success with a consistent sound.

Had Bonham lived past 1980 and Zeppelin continued to release albums, Out Door would not be hated. It'd be viewed as a transitional album, a bride, much like III.

But the fact that not long after it came out, Bonham died and the band broke up, it's kind of like 'That's it? This album is the end?'

Imagine what Zep's legacy might have been if Bonham had died in early 1971 and III was their last record released. That album wouldn't have gotten the appreciation it has in more recent years as the perfect bridge between early Zep and later Zep.

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In Through The Out Door suffers from several problems:

1) It's Not Guitar Driven

Led Zeppelin was, for all their history, a guitar driven band. Part of the band's appeal was Page's heavy riffs and epic soloing, and by the mid-late 70s, his "Guitar Army" assault of layered guitars. Even on songs where there's lush orchestral arrangements, or experimental keyboard led numbers like No Quarter, Page's guitar still dominated the sound. You go from 1976 with Presence, which is nothing less than an utterly hard rocking, urgent, frenetic guitar based album...To an album dominated by keyboards and the piano. There are no sweeping epic guitar solos, and Page's really memorable contributions are few. A guitar based band suddenly does a 180 where the guitars are really pushed to the background.

2) It's wildly inconsistent.

Musically speaking, Out Door is all over the place, which can be quite confusing and frustrating for listeners expecting the trademark Zeppelin sound, which you can argue was laid out in full detail on Graffiti and Presence. In Through the Out Door tries to be a whole bunch of things at once, throws a lot of different, cool ideas at the wall to see which would stick. You have an epic synth and keyboard dominated number here, then a light hearted pop rock piano driven song there, and then a laid back keyboard driven quasi-reggae number, then a rough tribute to Rockabilly over here (which compared to their past rockers seems undercooked somehow--too raw), then a long, winding prog rock song dominated by synthesizers, a synth dominated pop ballad next, wrapping it up with a laid back, long blues number, again overflying with synthesizers.

There's no singular sound to the album that the album latches on to. You could argue the same for Physical Graffiti, except that it's a double album and double albums are generally known for being all over the place, it's kind of expected.

3) It plays it safe.

There are no wild hip shaking moments to be found here. You'll tap your toes to Hot Dog, sure...But there's no song like Rock N' Roll or Houses of the Holy or Royal Orleans or Black Dog or even a funky innuendo laden number like Trampled Underfoot. There's no sex, really, outside of Hot Dog I suppose, there's not really even any real rock songs again outside of Hot Dog. There's nothing that could inspire controversy or shock. Out Door is a very muted album in comparison, a mature album for a maturing and less enthusiastic band that had just endured 4 years of mishaps and tragedy. And a 16 year old kid in 1979 who loves Zeppelin for songs like Black Dog or the dirtiness of Custard Pie isn't going to be pleased with a mature, safe album, and Out Door plays it safe. It's the musical equivalent to the tail end of a great high.

4) It was the last album, and was followed by tragedy.

I believe Out Door, had Zeppelin remained together, would have been a transitional album, much like III was. III bridged the hard, bluesy rock of Zeppelin with their emerging experimental and folk sides. I believe Out Door would've bridged Zeppelin into the '80s with a newer sound and a next record might have been a second Zoso--Where the traditional Zep sound and this new style gel together to form one new sound. As I said earlier, no one track sounds the same. There are many great ideas at work here and the band probably could've gone to great success with a consistent sound.

Had Bonham lived past 1980 and Zeppelin continued to release albums, Out Door would not be hated. It'd be viewed as a transitional album, a bride, much like III.

But the fact that not long after it came out, Bonham died and the band broke up, it's kind of like 'That's it? This album is the end?'

Imagine what Zep's legacy might have been if Bonham had died in early 1971 and III was their last record released. That album wouldn't have gotten the appreciation it has in more recent years as the perfect bridge between early Zep and later Zep.

I think your trouble with ITTOD is that you expect Zeppelin to follow a pattern of your own choosing. None of Zep's albums follow a pattern except maybe Zep II which came close on the heals of Zep I. Zeppelin III was a great departure that took the band in a whole nother direction and was pretty much a bare bones record when compared to II.

IMHO had III been their last album it would be critically acclaimed because it was so far from what people expected and the acoustic guitar is brilliant. Zep 4 was a another new direction and sounds nothing like I II or III and of course Houses is still further from the start. None of the records go back to that blues oriented feel of I and II and even on II they were changing it up with Heartbreaker and Living lovin Maid. Guitar driven, yes most of the albums could be described like that but to me its not the defining aspect of Zeppelin. For me its the way 4 guys could come together and gel their talents to create what ever they wanted for themselves and critics be damned!

ITTOD is a great album because, Not only is a new direction it also runs a gambit showing how versatile Zeppelin is. So what if it isn't technically "guitar driven" I hear plenty of Page when I listen, especially in the solo for I'm gonna crawl.

One shouldn't expect Zeppelin to fit into a pigeon hole. One must allow Zeppelin to be what it is and if you do you will be satisfied.

Take an album like And Justice for all by Metallica. Every song sounds the same and it seems like all the solos are taken from ONE (which is the best song on the record) I hardly ever listen to Metallica and a lot of other bands in that vein because they all end up sounding the same.

​Zeppelin never sounds repetitive.

Edited by juxtiphi
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You'll have to forgive me Rover... this is NOT an attack against you. It IS an attack against every person who puts "In Through The Out Door" down and since you let loose with a string of negatives... LOL ... you get to feel the brunt of my attack! Ready? Alright... let's go...

You claim that there are no real rock songs outside of Hot Dog. Well... excuse me, but what the f*** is In The Evening? A salsa??? That riff, that song, rocks hard! I'm a guitarist - have been for over 35 years - and I have played this song many times... if you don't see how rock it is, then I would suggest either getting an ear checkup or re-evaluating your idea of rock. (More to come on this later)

So... we have this awesome album opener and then we dive right into South Bound Saurez, a funky, piano driven tune that kicks total fucking ass! How this song cannot move you - or anyone - is beyond me!?!?! This song shows off Zeppelin's ability to play something unlike anything they'd ever done before, and yet they still pull it off. Jimmy plays a killer solo and Bonham is, as always, the rock that holds it all together. Plant's vocals are amazing as well and then there's Jonsey... again, if this doesn't move someone, then they're probably dead.

Next up is Fool In The Rain. A song that is so unique, so different and so Zeppelin! Could any other band do this song? No. Only Zeppelin. Bonham's drums are an absolute joy to listen to and combine roughly 107 drum lessons within. For an album that you claim isn't "guitar driven," please explain to me how so many people feel that Page's solo in this song is one of his best ever???

Not just Zep fans, but people that only know Zep by what they hear on the radio. Tons and tons of people just adore Jimmy's solo in this song. Plus... you get that stop... then the whistle... then Bonham going bat-shit crazy on the drums yet keeping it all together and building everything up like one giant orgasm until... we get back to the beat that began the song, and then Jimmy takes over with the aforementioned guitar solo...

Next up is, as you call it, the only "rock" song on the album... Hot Dog. Well, if you'll pardon me, Hot Dog should have been left in the can and Wearing & Tearing should have followed Fool In The Rain. Hot Dog is okay... I mean, if you're driving on the highway or partying with friends, yeah, it's okay... but just imagine Wearing & Tearing following Fool...

Turn the album over and we start off with Carouselambra... an absolute fucking epic Zeppelin song in every sense of the word! Too many people are totally clueless as to what this song is about. And that... is a shame. But trust me, this keyboard driven song, is one of Zeppelin's best and most mighty epics! Call me a JPJ homer all you want - I really don't care - this song kicks total ass and anyone too damn deaf or stupid to realize that... well, it's their loss.

The lyrics are worth the price of admission alone. But the music... the freaking MUSIC!!! Jimmy, John Paul and Bonzo just fall into this very intense groove that - again - no other band could possibly do!!! Could Aerosmith do this??? Could anyone else??? NO! How this song isn't on everybody's Top Ten Zeppelin songs of all time is, again, beyond me. For the music, the lyrics, the meaning... it's all here, man...

Next we get a beautiful love song from father to son... Robert's ode to Karac... Jimmy was quoted as saying how he feared people doing the wave or swaying in unison to the song... fucking relax Jimmy... it's a classic and epic song and one that deserves everyone's respect! The lyrics are, again, pure brilliance!!! One thing Robert has never been given credit for is his lyric writing, but in the first two songs on side two, we get two epics filled with absolute materpieces of lyrics! And, you know, the music kicks ass too!

And then, we end with a slow blues. How fitting for the final Zeppelin album... Though Zeppelin tried - and did extremely well at not copying themselves or repeating themselves - it can be argued that Since I've Been Loving You and Tea For One are eerily close to each other... and one might make that argument for this album closer. But I don't care, because the slow blues, in the hands of Led-Zeppelin, was always done with a master's touch!

So... there's my quick review of an album that still boggles my mind that Zeppelin fans don't appreciate. You have NO IDEA what you're missing out on.

As far as what I said prior, when I was talking of In The Evening and how there would be more to come on that later... you mention certain songs... Black Dog, Custard Pie, Rock & Roll and Houses Of The Holy spring to mind, and you actually complain that there isn't more on this album like those songs...

WOW!!! Led-Zeppelin spent their entire career doing all they could to NOT be like AC/DC and give you the same song or the same album, over and over... it leaves me speechless that one of your complaints about In Through The Out Door is that it isn't enough like prior Zeppelin albums.

All that I can say to you or anyone else who doesn't care for Out Door is... sucks to be you! You are truly missing out on a great album!!!

Edited by Dr Death
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I actually love Out Door, and it along with Graffiti are the two Zeppelin albums I listen to the most, and I love Carouselambra (I think the lyrics are metaphorical for what Plant saw as the band winding down, the dark last two years they'd gone through, and other things), but I was answering the thread's question, and playing Devil's Advocate if you will. I actually think their first album is their weakest. I don't really listen to it very much. Zepp didn't come into their own until II, in my opinion.

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Rounding Rover and Dr Death both have valid points. It is mature album and i feel it would it would have been transitional had they made another album.Is it guitar driven?Well yes in some ways. At this time of release there was a lot of young people with attitude,spiky hair and thrash guitars.They'd come into the record shop and sneer at the album on display.But somehow Neil Young escaped the wrath of this lot.Rust Never Sleeps was a Holy Grail because of its bludgeoning second side.We sold bucket loads of that lp.I absolutely love ITTOD now but at the time it felt a little old.Personally I think it has aged well and for a while I didnt have a copy.I picked up a copy six months ago and havnt stopped playing it

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