The relationship between Peter Grant and Jimmy Page: where there tense moments?

[Ktn]

Given the complex nature of the rock and roll business, as well as Peter's inclination towards extreme control, there were surely difficult moments between Grant and Page. Any comments or insights?

[magerogue]

I don't know, are there conflicts in every relationship?

Plant got physical with Jimmy in the 90's, Bonzo punched Plant in the face back in the 1972 Japan Tour.

Conflicts are normal because we're human, nobody's perfect and every once in a while, people are allowed

to disagree or just get pissed of at each other.

[kingzoso]

This is actually a good question. From what I have read (and that is a lot about Led Zeppelin over the course of 30 years), and just from my memory, I can't, at this moment, think of any discord between Jimmy Page and Peter Grant. Of course that is not to say that there were never any difficult moments between the two (because obviously I was not there, even though I would have Loved to have been). I think that Richard Cole would be the one to answer this question, more so than Bonham, Jones or Plant.

From what I have read and know, Peter Grant was absolutely Devoted to Led Zeppelin and especially to Jimmy Page in particular. A devotion that never wavered on Peter's end.

For the latter years, Jimmy was strung out on Coke and Smack as was Peter. So there could have been "difficulties" between the Two because of Addiction(s) and Paranoia (that is just speculation on My part but possibly based on reality).

I remember reading that after the demise of Led Zeppelin, Richard Cole asked Jimmy about Peter and Pagey (supposedly) said to Richard, "I fired the Fat Cunt".

[1973fan]

Was there not bad feeling on Jimmy's part towards Peter Grant when Peter arranged Robert's solo recording deal?

[SteveAJones]

Was there not bad feeling on Jimmy's part towards Peter Grant when Peter arranged Robert's solo recording deal?

No, why would there be? Led Zeppelin had already disbanded and there was never any intentions for Robert & Jimmy to carry on together.

[Ktn]

I would think that once Zeppelin really got rolling, that Grant would have at first anyway, been very upset with anything in Jimmy's performances that where not top notch if alcohol or drug use on Jimmy's part had been to blame. Think of any high profile business relationship: for the business owner, any slip from a "gold standard" of performance by the next in command (CEO) would be seen as a danger to the welfare of the company and thus some kind of intervention would be initiated. Just wondering how such a good thing ended up as it did, considering Grant's stronghold on everything else. Letting bootlegs slide by surely would have been less costly than to have your key business partner and lead musician go into self destruct mode.

[CSH1127]

Going out on a limb, but I'd say Jimmy was in charge of Peter Grant. Not the other way around.

[Ktn]

I of course don't know. But I suspect that Grant for all practical purposes was in charge once the Zep was flying. Jimmy had to realize from the beginning that there was no other manager who would be able and willing to increase the band's profits as Peter did. Jimmy's part was the music. He really had to place Grant in the driver's seat if anything meaningful (from a financial standpoint) was to come out of the new band that he formed after the Yardbirds disbanded.

[z1inspector]

I of course don't know. But I suspect that Grant for all practical purposes was in charge once the Zep was flying. Jimmy had to realize from the beginning that there was no other manager who would be able and willing to increase the band's profits as Peter did. Jimmy's part was the music. He really had to place Grant in the driver's seat if anything meaningful (from a financial standpoint) was to come out of the new band that he formed after the Yardbirds disbanded.

Thats what you would think & how it may have APPEARED from the outside, however as i understand it "the Hammer of the Gods" was under Pages power if called upon.

But its more likel the UNIVERSE itself guided this airship .

[z1inspector]

I don't know, are there conflicts in every relationship?

Plant got physical with Jimmy in the 90's, Bonzo punched Plant in the face back in the 1972 Japan Tour.

Conflicts are normal because we're human, nobody's perfect and every once in a while, people are allowed

to disagree or just get pissed of at each other.

where did you here = Plant got physical with Jimmy in the 90's ?

more about this sad moment that Quite possibly could have happend please!

[The Dark Lord]

where did you here = Plant got physical with Jimmy in the 90's ?

more about this sad moment that Quite possibly could have happend please!

Its true. Robert reportedly slugged Jimmy on the Walking into Clarksdale tour, as Jimmy was boozing it up too much.

[Ktn]

Peter Grant became physical with some of his early artists that he managed, like Gene Vincent. Based on John Paul Jones's interview for UnCut magazine, Grant picked on Bonham at times, and that he (John Paul) was the only one who was not afraid to bring up issues (like scheduling concerts during school holidays). He also said that in general, the group knew that Grant had their best interest at heart.

If I was in Grant's shoes at the time that things started to go south with Jimmy, I would first have had a nice, gentle "father to son" talk : "Jimmy, remember how disciplined and on top you were at the beginning? Well, I think you need to get back to being your original self for your sake and for everyone else, me included". After, the second or third less than optimal performance, I would have had Jimmy pinned against the wall asking him what the heck he thought he was trying to do.

[woz70]

If I was in Grant's shoes at the time that things started to go south with Jimmy, I would first have had a nice, gentle "father to son" talk : "Jimmy, remember how disciplined and on top you were at the beginning? Well, I think you need to get back to being your original self for your sake and for everyone else, me included". After, the second or third less than optimal performance, I would have had Jimmy pinned against the wall asking him what the heck he thought he was trying to do.

Unfortunately Grant was already pretty much in the same state at the time, and people just didn't seem to do the whole 'intervention' thing in those days, which is why scores of people died.

[Strider]

Yes, there were tense moments. Where? I don't know.

As in any creative and business undertaking in a field such as the music industry, relationships can be volatile and the balance of power can shift at the slightest provocation. Add drugs and alcohol to the mix and it becomes even more precarious and susceptible to paranoia.

But from all accounts that I have seen, the relationship between Peter and Jimmy was based on mutual love and respect and the realization that each had the band's best interest at heart, and they were in a great situation that others dream about. Considering what went on in other bands at the time...the Who, the Stones, Grand Funk, etc...I'm sure Jimmy and Peter knew they had a special thing going. I know Mick Jagger was envious of what Peter Grant was able to achieve for Led Zeppelin in such a short time.

Now, given the multiple demands and decisions that must be made daily when running a successful band, it's impossible to think that Jimmy and Peter saw eye-to-eye on every detail. Woodstock, for instance. Was Jimmy on board with Peter's decision to say no to Woodstock? There were many shows and tours that the band turned down over the years...was it an equal decision by both parties or did one party sway the other?

Consider the 1970 Bath Festival...Zeppelin turned down a very lucrative tour offer to play Bath instead. Was that Jimmy's idea or Peter's? And how much convincing did one have to do to the other to reach an agreement?

As to the idea that Peter should have watched out for Jimmy's addiction to heroin, you are looking at the 1970s through 2014 glasses. The very nature of doing an 'intervention' didn't even exist back then. There were no support groups for drug abusers and if you were using drugs and alcohol, you were pretty much expected to handle your own business and left to your own devices.

Plus, Peter himself was battling his own addictions at the same time, so by 1976-77, neither were in the best shape for making clear-minded decisions. Hence, disastrous moves like hiring John Bindon for the '77 tour. I'd really like to know whose decision that was.

All in all, however, the relationship between Jimmy Page and Peter Grant was one of the better musician-manager ones in rock history. Certainly one of the most financially rewarding. If it didn't end on as happy a note as it began, I'm sure they still regarded each other with love and respect and realized the drugs probably played a part in the ending of their professional relationship.

[SteveAJones]

Yes, there were tense moments. Where? I don't know.

This one time, at band camp (Headley Grange) Peter asked Jimmy if his bell bottom jeans made his butt look big. Jimmy said, "No, your butt makes your butt look big". Peter came charging down the stairwell like a rhino but by then Jimmy had dashed outside. The rest is rock n' roll history.

[Ktn]

Now that is funny! Grant set Jimmy up with that question!

[Ktn]

I guess the truth can be painful.

[Plantpothead]

Regardless of all this, Peter Grant got Led Zeppelin and its fans the best deal, I remember when the group and their management pegged all UK prices at £1.00 per person for a tour.Grant also stopped all the venues from ripping off the group.

[luvlz2]

Its true. Robert reportedly slugged Jimmy on the Walking into Clarksdale tour, as Jimmy was boozing it up too much.

Any info on where he was reported to have slugged him?

[slave to zep]

Yes, there were tense moments. Where? I don't know.

i wanted to say the same thing .... lol

This one time, at band camp (Headley Grange) Peter asked Jimmy if his bell bottom jeans made his butt look big. Jimmy said, "No, your butt makes your butt look big". Peter came charging down the stairwell like a rhino but by then Jimmy had dashed outside. The rest is rock n' roll history.

Now that is funny! Grant set Jimmy up with that question!

omg, you really are clueless, aren't you .....

[SteveAJones]

Any info on where he was reported to have slugged him?

Robert did not slug him, it was a hard slap to the face backstage (pre-show) at the Barton Coliseum in Little Rock on March 17, 1995. They were just three weeks into a world tour.

[bluecongo]

I was at that show and I have to say Jimmy sucked that night and was clearly smashed. So dissapointing.

[Triplet Kick]

The following is completely true. In the latter years Peter had words with Jimmy about his substance abuse problems, to which Jimmy admitted, "I grant that you might be right." To which his manager replied, "I'll tell you, Jimmy, right now I don't think we're on the same page."

[Hue & Eye]

Peter Grant was moody and mercurial and prone to unexpected actions. I witnessed, in person, several instances of that behavior. I saw a huge fight between Bonham and Grant at the Beverly Hills Hilton wherein and elevator was damaged as well as lobby furniture - it was a brawl.

I was also warned NEVER to take photos of either Grant or Bonham without permission and warned to stay clear of both of them - I saw first hand what the consequences were and it wasn't pretty.

This photo was taken by me at the premier of Song Remains the Same in NYC - I can't upload the photo that followed but I think you can see where it was going. BTW, that's Ahmet Ertegun.

[Walter]

You've really outdone yourself with that one! Very cool that you were there!