strutter806 Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 I'm not sure what section to post this topic in or if it has already been asked but it has often stumbled around my brain so here goes... We all know side 1 of Zoso starts with the weird little Page/Jones sound effect. I've often wondered why exactly it was put there and this is my theory. If it wasn't inserted at the beginning Plant's voice would be the very first thing the listener hears. With Jimmy being the master of the group I don't believe he would allow this. Now the sound effect itself is first Jimmy's guitar followed half a second later by Jones' bass. Black Dog's signature riff is JPJ's creation. And when you think of the "protocol" of the band, Jimmy and Jones are the seasoned veterans, Jones is the most musically adept. While Plant and Bonzo are a lot of the heart they are also the "young ones" of the band, remember they were on salary at the beginning. So I believe the ranking inside the group was 1.Page, 2.Jones, 3.Plant, 4.Bonham. Now all that aside, it is a strange and funky way to signal off an album known for it's odd mix of songs and artwork. But overall, I really believe it was placed there so Robert's voice wasn't the first thing you hear when you play the album. Thoughts?? Quote
ScarletMacaw Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 I can't quite figure out the thought process behind the question. Page likes sound effects. There are other Zep songs that start in weird says, such as people talking. I wouldn't let your imagination run wild with this. Quote
Walter Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 Wasn't Roberts voice the beginning of Whole Lotta Love, on Zep II, with his little chuckle? I also am not sure what, if any, question there is by the op? Quote
strutter806 Posted March 31, 2014 Author Posted March 31, 2014 Maybe my imagination is running wild with this. I didnt think about the WLL chortle as well. The intro to this album just always struck me since I was young thats all. Perhaps I've dissected this album too much in my time. Quote
dazedjeffy Posted April 1, 2014 Posted April 1, 2014 The sounds at the beginning are Jimmy Page warming up his guitar. He called it "Waking up the army of guitars." Quote
Flyingzepp Posted April 1, 2014 Posted April 1, 2014 I don't remember how many guitars Jimmy used on the songs, but it's the producer lining them all up at the beginning. Quote
The Only Way To Fly Posted April 1, 2014 Posted April 1, 2014 doesn't I Can't Quit You start with a Plant wail/moan? Or are you looking at track one, side one - I doubt it had anything to do with competition e.g. who's heard first. Its a great band & the sequencing of the tracks is perfect! Quote
strutter806 Posted April 1, 2014 Author Posted April 1, 2014 doesn't I Can't Quit You start with a Plant wail/moan? Or are you looking at track one, side one - I doubt it had anything to do with competition e.g. who's heard first. Its a great band & the sequencing of the tracks is perfect! It's the album intro altogether I had in mind. I remember reading in Hammer of the Gods where Jimmy was said to become perturbed with Robert getting most of the attention in the early days of the band's shows, but IV is past the "early" era I realize. Still I always notice closely song arrangements and song orders on their records. We know Jimmy has the final say on everything. Quote
Strider Posted April 1, 2014 Posted April 1, 2014 (edited) I'm not sure what section to post this topic in or if it has already been asked but it has often stumbled around my brain so here goes... We all know side 1 of Zoso starts with the weird little Page/Jones sound effect. I've often wondered why exactly it was put there and this is my theory. If it wasn't inserted at the beginning Plant's voice would be the very first thing the listener hears. With Jimmy being the master of the group I don't believe he would allow this. Now the sound effect itself is first Jimmy's guitar followed half a second later by Jones' bass. Black Dog's signature riff is JPJ's creation. And when you think of the "protocol" of the band, Jimmy and Jones are the seasoned veterans, Jones is the most musically adept. While Plant and Bonzo are a lot of the heart they are also the "young ones" of the band, remember they were on salary at the beginning. So I believe the ranking inside the group was 1.Page, 2.Jones, 3.Plant, 4.Bonham. Now all that aside, it is a strange and funky way to signal off an album known for it's odd mix of songs and artwork. But overall, I really believe it was placed there so Robert's voice wasn't the first thing you hear when you play the album. Thoughts?? Thoughts? Hmmm, that maybe you've been drinking or hanging around joeboy too much? For the record, Led Zeppelin II begins with Robert Plant's cough, so the whole theory of Page not wanting Plant to be heard first is kind of null and void from the getgo. Now, one attribute of Led Zeppelin IV is that the album is a masterpiece of the art of sequencing. The whole album flows beautifully, taking the listener on a journey of many, varying peaks and valleys and emotions. If I were to suggest any sort of forethought on Jimmy Page's part about the start of Led Zeppelin IV, it would be to say that I'm sure the bizarre criticisms of "Led Zeppelin going soft" that came after the release of Led Zeppelin III might have still been on Jimmy's mind when putting together the fourth album. The final sounds on Led Zeppelin III were acoustic guitars. By beginning Led Zeppelin IV with the unmistakable sound of an electric guitar and amp sputtering to life, it might have been Jimmy's way of saying to the doubters that Led Zeppelin could still bring the Hammer of the Gods. Soft? Here's a double dose of Black Dog and Rock and Roll scorching rock for your head, you nitwits! Like I said...pure conjecture on my part. I would never claim to know the inner workings of the Wizard's mind. Edited April 1, 2014 by Strider Quote
henrybonzo Posted April 1, 2014 Posted April 1, 2014 tape starting and scratching or rubbing the guitar strings, that's what it sounds like to me anyway Quote
juxtiphi Posted April 1, 2014 Posted April 1, 2014 tape starting and scratching or rubbing the guitar strings, that's what it sounds like to me anyway I think Jimmy said something like that in a book somewhere. maybe in Tangents Within A Framework Quote
DewieCox Posted April 1, 2014 Posted April 1, 2014 Not sure how they make the sound, but I got something similar by manipulating a delay pedal. Don't think it has anything to do with moving Plant from opening the album. It's just a cool sound. Wouldn't put too much weight into something you read in Hammer of the Gods. I'm sure there are some facts there, but there's also quite a bit of sensationalism. Quote
Anjin-san Posted April 1, 2014 Posted April 1, 2014 I'm not sure what section to post this topic in or if it has already been asked but it has often stumbled around my brain so here goes... We all know side 1 of Zoso starts with the weird little Page/Jones sound effect. I've often wondered why exactly it was put there and this is my theory. If it wasn't inserted at the beginning Plant's voice would be the very first thing the listener hears. With Jimmy being the master of the group I don't believe he would allow this. Now the sound effect itself is first Jimmy's guitar followed half a second later by Jones' bass. Black Dog's signature riff is JPJ's creation. And when you think of the "protocol" of the band, Jimmy and Jones are the seasoned veterans, Jones is the most musically adept. While Plant and Bonzo are a lot of the heart they are also the "young ones" of the band, remember they were on salary at the beginning. So I believe the ranking inside the group was 1.Page, 2.Jones, 3.Plant, 4.Bonham. Now all that aside, it is a strange and funky way to signal off an album known for it's odd mix of songs and artwork. But overall, I really believe it was placed there so Robert's voice wasn't the first thing you hear when you play the album. Thoughts?? JPJ wrote the riff and Bonzo helped finish it.Page is using his pick to 'scratch' the E-string on the Les Paul. Quote
moonson Posted April 1, 2014 Posted April 1, 2014 i seem to remember some talk that the album intro sounds are supposed to set the vibe for a hound song - a panting dog. but then there's nothing doggy in the tune except for the title itself. hmmm.. Quote
Anjin-san Posted April 1, 2014 Posted April 1, 2014 i seem to remember some talk that the album intro sounds are supposed to set the vibe for a hound song - a panting dog. but then there's nothing doggy in the tune except for the title itself. hmmm.. Named for a black dog hanging around the recording session. Quote
Wolfman Posted April 2, 2014 Posted April 2, 2014 I thought it was Jimmy doing a slight strum on his guitar with a violin bow. That is what it sounds like. Quote
juxtiphi Posted April 2, 2014 Posted April 2, 2014 (edited) http://ultimateclassicrock.com/10-things-you-didnt-know-about-led-zeppelin-four/ I'm paraphrasing here, But one of the things is about how Jimmy didn't feel that Four Sticks was all that special. To me Four Sticks is the epitome of Zeppelin. The great thing about it is that it doesn't fit any of the norms in music at that time or even today. It smacks of Zeppelin from all angles. And when the owls cry in the night Oh, baby, baby, when the pines begin to cry Oh, baby, baby, how do you feel If the rivers run dry, babyHow do you feel, Edited April 2, 2014 by juxtiphi Quote
Anjin-san Posted April 2, 2014 Posted April 2, 2014 I thought it was Jimmy doing a slight strum on his guitar with a violin bow. That is what it sounds like. Interesting,... Quote
The Dark Lord Posted April 2, 2014 Posted April 2, 2014 (edited) JPJ wrote the riff and Bonzo helped finish it.Page is using his pick to 'scratch' the E-string on the Les Paul. This.http://ultimateclassicrock.com/10-things-you-didnt-know-about-led-zeppelin-four/ I'm paraphrasing here, But one of the things is about how Jimmy didn't feel that Four Sticks was all that special. To me Four Sticks is the epitome of Zeppelin. The great thing about it is that it doesn't fit any of the norms in music at that time or even today. It smacks of Zeppelin from all angles. And when the owls cry in the nightOh, baby, baby, when the pines begin to cryOh, baby, baby, how do you feelIf the rivers run dry, babyHow do you feel, So very true. A masterpiece on every level. Incredible ambiance in that song. Edited April 2, 2014 by The Dark Lord Quote
Strider Posted April 2, 2014 Posted April 2, 2014 This thread is getting off-topic. I love "Four Sticks" to death, but the OP wasn't asking about that song or even your thoughts about Led Zeppelin IV as a whole. He was asking your thoughts about his theory that Jimmy purposely put the noises that begin the album because as "Master of the group" he couldn't bear having Robert's voice be the first thing listeners heard. Daffy or not, let's try to keep the discussion on-track. Quote
The Dark Lord Posted April 2, 2014 Posted April 2, 2014 This thread is getting off-topic. I love "Four Sticks" to death Gotta agree with you here. Quote
Glyn Posted April 2, 2014 Posted April 2, 2014 I'd figure the sounds were kept on the recording just because they were interesting/cool. I mean, why keep the echo build up on "Immigrant Song"? Or "Friends"? It sounds like he is just rubbing the strings on his guitar while JPJ is doing a bit of noodling. Why? Who knows. It could be something Page just does before recording/playing. Quote
kirchzep27 Posted April 4, 2014 Posted April 4, 2014 It's a cool little sequence of instrumentation, during the recording process. It makes for a unique tag on a great song, although most of the time I don't even notice it anymore. it's plant's vocal that still officially kicks off the song though. Actually if the vocals started after the first start and stop cycle of the song, that would have worked very well too. Quote
strutter806 Posted April 4, 2014 Author Posted April 4, 2014 i seem to remember some talk that the album intro sounds are supposed to set the vibe for a hound song - a panting dog. but then there's nothing doggy in the tune except for the title itself. hmmm.. tape starting and scratching or rubbing the guitar strings, that's what it sounds like to me anyway This is the first Ive heard of a "panting dog" imitation :-) Thats pretty far out, pretty cool. The sound effect itself is a guitar playing an E chord at the 7th fret, picked first and then rubbing the strings at the bridge with the fleshy part of the palm. It's the same technique EVH does at the beginning of "Atomic Punk". Any guitarist should know that. But there are a couple of bass guitar strings being rattled very slightly right after the guitar revs up. Quote
strutter806 Posted April 4, 2014 Author Posted April 4, 2014 Thoughts? Hmmm, that maybe you've been drinking or hanging around joeboy too much? For the record, Led Zeppelin II begins with Robert Plant's cough, so the whole theory of Page not wanting Plant to be heard first is kind of null and void from the getgo. Now, one attribute of Led Zeppelin IV is that the album is a masterpiece of the art of sequencing. The whole album flows beautifully, taking the listener on a journey of many, varying peaks and valleys and emotions. If I were to suggest any sort of forethought on Jimmy Page's part about the start of Led Zeppelin IV, it would be to say that I'm sure the bizarre criticisms of "Led Zeppelin going soft" that came after the release of Led Zeppelin III might have still been on Jimmy's mind when putting together the fourth album. The final sounds on Led Zeppelin III were acoustic guitars. By beginning Led Zeppelin IV with the unmistakable sound of an electric guitar and amp sputtering to life, it might have been Jimmy's way of saying to the doubters that Led Zeppelin could still bring the Hammer of the Gods. Soft? Here's a double dose of Black Dog and Rock and Roll scorching rock for your head, you nitwits! Like I said...pure conjecture on my part. I would never claim to know the inner workings of the Wizard's mind. I might enjoy a couple of brews now and then! And who is joeboy btw?! Quote
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