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jim6225

Lawsuit over Stairway to Heaven

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^^ I suppose it's some consolation that at least it got moved to LA. No idea how the plaintiffs thought keeping it in Philly would hold. Weird, tricky attempt; glad it didn't work for them. Although the Zep camp wanted LA if the suit wasn't thrown out, now that Thicke and Williams lost their suit in LA, it's less of a sure thing for the Zep lads than I previously thought. I hope that reasonable heads prevail and they win this blatant attempt at a cash grab.

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This may have been seen before, but here's a link to my Facebook page where I break down the musical nuts and bolts of the controversy. Your witness, Messrs. Page & Plant:

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10153039409943797

Great blog George, you make an excellent witness for the defense and the point is very approachable and understandable for non-musicians.

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If Peter Grant could have been around, this Lawsuit would have never been filed . . . .

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All the way back to 1659 by Gio Battista Granata! Go to the following url and listen to the 8th sample down on the page titled: Sonata di Chittarra, e Violino, con il suo Basso Continuo.

http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/Drilldown?name_id=122732&name_role=1&comp_id=202629

Written centuries before Randy. Whether it be you cannot copyright a chord progression, public domain due to the passing of time etc. The lawsuit doesn't have much merit.

Robert

www.behindthetoys.com

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What is equally ironic is how many metal bands( Heart, more rockish. Iron Maiden, early Queensryche and dozens of others have

very clearly stolen the horse-charging galloping beat from ALS. And many examples are extremely close, no microscope or audio

analyst necessary. It is not even exaggerating to say that Iron Maiden has forged their career on this basic pattern.

But Page probably doesn't care, knowing that no one is going to ever match the grand majesty and power of the original.

Let them try. Ha Ha Ha !!!

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Aww, fuck em both...Spirit & Taurus! Regarding Randy California claiming , "let him have it," fuck him too! The lament bass structure is not his to give as it is a basic structure used in numerous songs throughout the centuries. Also, I believe if the man truly believed Zep nicked anything his ass would have been running, not walking but running to the local courthouse and filing. Rich, poor, does not matter, filing fees in 1971 were what, $5? Zeppelin were on the rise, Stairway was a goddamn monster and ANY copyright lawyer would have taken that on contingent if there had really been a case at all.

I am still pissed about the Jake Holmes, D&C bullshit, that douche never should have been given a credit. Apart from the title the songs are completely different. Sure Jimmy played the song with the same lyrics as the Holmes tune but by the time he recorded it with Zeppelin the lyrics were totally different, the riffing and melody totally different. I guess Plant singing, "I've been Dazed and Confused" was enough to be considered copyright infringement because outside of those five initial words, the songs differ completely.

Ok, rant over, fuck Spirit!

You seem a bit high strung. It's just a song.

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You seem a bit high strung. It's just a song.

He is Yip Man. Thus, he must jump about and make strange noises.

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He is Yip Man. Thus, he must jump about and make strange noises.

Touche' Jimmy :drinks:

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You seem a bit high strung. It's just a song.

I would say passionate as high strung suggests lack of control. Guess you are not a big fan of either passion or hyperbole...I am a big Louis Black fan so maybe that explains some of my posts. Sometime I will exaggerate a point to show the absurdity of the situation. If my passion and humor alarmed you, well, I am what I am. This is what happens when all your in-laws are Italian!

Edited by IpMan

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^ You seem alright, Yip Man. We all can't agree on everything - but balancing passion and humor, and not being directly hurtful to those we speak to are very admirable traits.

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I would say passionate as high strung suggests lack of control. Guess you are not a big fan of either passion or hyperbole...I am a big Louis Black fan so maybe that explains some of my posts. Sometime I will exaggerate a point to show the absurdity of the situation. If my passion and humor alarmed you, well, I am what I am. This is what happens when all your in-laws are Italian!

You'd guess incorrectly. I just found it kind of silly that you got all worked up over a song. I don't like Stairway To Heaven, but if it were some other song of theirs I loved, like Tea For One, that was accused of having been plagiarized from someone else's song, I'd be annoyed, but my level of emotional involvement would stop there. Obviously, you're a lot different, and that's cool. The world would suck if everyone were exactly the same.

Edited by Electrophile

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You'd guess incorrectly. I just found it kind of silly that you got all worked up over a song. I don't like Stairway To Heaven, but if it were some other song of theirs I loved, like Tea For One, that was accused of having been plagiarized from someone else's song, I'd be annoyed, but my level of emotional involvement would stop there. Obviously, you're a lot different, and that's cool. The world would suck if everyone were exactly the same.

Not liking Stairway to Heaven is like not liking the Wizard of Oz. It really sets me off when people that love Led Zeppelin say they do not like this song that is pure magic

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I do like the song but there are several classic LZ songs i like better. Radio overkill left its mark on some and people reading so much into the lyrics when it was just another great Zeppelin tune probably sways people too. I never liked the Wizard of Oz either.and yeah Tea For One is indeed a great one. It makes some people upset i am not interested in Jimmy's occult fascination or that i dont care what his sigil means. It doesnt mean i am less of a LZ fan... Everyone is different...

Edited by ksgemini

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'Stairway to Heaven' Lawsuit: Led Zeppelin Denies Copyright Claims, Cops to Being Called 'One of the Greatest Bands in History'

Led Zeppelin would like it known: They did not commit copyright infringement in the writing of "Stairway to Heaven."

The group does admit, however, to being an awesome part of rock 'n' roll history.

The surviving members of the group -- Jimmy Page, Robert Plant and John Paul Jones -- have filed an answer to the lawsuit alleging that 'Stairway' was stolen from the 1968 song "Taurus" by Spirit, who had played with Zeppelin on an early tour.

The group's answer to the lawsuit, filed in federal court in California, on Wednesday, is light on detail, mostly denying the allegations or claiming insufficient knowledge to answer the allegations.

The group's answer does contain one amusing passage, in which Page, Plant and Jones assert their talent and reputation.

"Answering paragraph 11 of the First Amended Complaint, including the First Amended Complaint's footnote 1, Defendants admit that Led Zeppelin has been called one of the greatest bands in history and its members were and are exceptionally talented," the group's answer reads, "but otherwise deny each and every allegation contained in paragraph 11 of the First Amended Complaint."

Page, Plant and Jones also admit to having played a concert with Spirit, and to using part of the Spirit song "Fresh Garbage" in a medley they performed during some concerts in 1968 and 1969.

The band is being sued by Michael Skidmore, the trustee for trust of Spirit frontman Randy Craig Wolfe, who performed under the name Randy California and died in 1997.

In September, the group sought dismissal of the suit, which was filed in Pennsylvania, on jurisdictional grounds, or else be moved to California. The group contended that none of the members had ever been residents of Pennsylvania, nor do they own property in the state.

https://celebrity.yahoo.com/news/stairway-heaven-lawsuit-led-zeppelin-denies-copyright-claims-192655482.html;_ylt=A0SO8x45pV9Vo.0AeBJXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTEzZ2RubXEwBGNvbG8DZ3ExBHBvcwMzBHZ0aWQDVklQNTYyXzEEc2VjA3Nj

Edited by luvlz2

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I do like the song but there are several classic LZ songs i like better. Radio overkill left its mark on some and people reading so much into the lyrics when it was just another great Zeppelin tune probably sways people too. I never liked the Wizard of Oz either.and yeah Tea For One is indeed a great one. It makes some people upset i am not interested in Jimmy's occult fascination or that i dont care what his sigil means. It doesnt mean i am less of a LZ fan... Everyone is different...

I can understand not liking the occult or his Heroin use. I'm sure page and jones doesn't like Plant's drinking. I believe the issues in the 90s regarding Jones was all on Plant. Gives me a really good reason not to like him. What he has been doing lately really sets me off!

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Led Zeppelin Accused of 'Pure Fishing Expedition' in 'Stairway to Heaven' Lawsuit

 

In the latest turn in the "Stairway to Heaven" copyright saga, the group was accused of undertaking a "pure fishing expedition" in legal papers filed Tuesday.

 

In the filing, attorneys for plaintiff Michael Skidmore -- trustee for the Randy Craig Wolfe Trust which, according to the papers, owns Wolfe's copyrights -- blast Team Zeppelin for questioning the validity of the trust.

 

'There is no evidence to cast even the slightest bit of shade on the validity of the Trust, nor have Defendants argued that there is any real reason to doubt the validity of the Trust," the papers read. "This is a pure fishing expedition."

 

Skidmore brought the suit, claiming that Zeppelin's rock classic "Stairway to Heaven" infringes on the song "Taurus" by the group Spirit, of which Wolfe (nom de rock: Randy California) was an original member. Wolfe died in 1997.

 

Led Zeppelin's camp contends that the Wolfe trust is only valid if it is a qualified charitable foundation or other qualified entity, and claims that Skidmore's legal team hasn't provided evidence to that effect. Zeppelin's lawyers are asking Skidmore's team to provide proof, such as "all internal Revenue Service notices or correspondence qualifying the Randy Craig Wolfe Trust as a charitable foundation or other qualified entity."

 

The plaintiff's side contends that it has already provided all the proof that's necessary, and that the Zeppelin team's request for further documentation is "overly broad, vague, irrelevent, not calculated to lead to the discovery of relevant evidence, and unduly burdensome."

 

They also said that nobody has ever questioned the validity of the trust, and "because Defendants are not the beneficiaries of the Trust they have no legal authority or standing challenge to validity of the Trust."

https://www.yahoo.com/celebrity/news/led-zeppelin-accused-pure-fishing-expedition-stairway-heaven-002428277.html?ref=gs

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^ Well tit for tat. They tried certain schemes to get the shift to their advantage (location, which they lost), and now the Zep lawyers are turning over every stone, whether the plaintiffs think it's relevant or not. 

I just hope that at the end of the day, there's no settlement where they have to split credit because that would be a travesty. Forty some odd years later and now the song sounds familiar enough to sue for. I'm sure it's about the integrity of the enterprise, right? ;)

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In truth I don't like the way this lawsuit is being handled. It seems to be being handled in a way that maximizes profits for the attorneys. These are just delaying tactics and we know lawyers charge by the hour (actually they charge by the minute. One of my patients had a lawyer who charged her in six minute increments for phone calls). The members of Zep have deep pockets. Why not just get to the meat of the suit? It has no validity on musical grounds. (although, I have to admit I was shocked at the successful suit against Robin Thicke and Pharrell because even though I can't stand them and that song (or maybe especially because I can't stand that song) that song had almost no resemblance to the Marvin Gaye tune).

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Just now, ScarletMacaw said:

In truth I don't like the way this lawsuit is being handled. It seems to be being handled in a way that maximizes profits for the attorneys. These are just delaying tactics and we know lawyers charge by the hour (actually they charge by the minute. One of my patients had a lawyer who charged her in six minute increments for phone calls). The members of Zep have deep pockets. Why not just get to the meat of the suit? It has no validity on musical grounds. (although, I have to admit I was shocked at the successful suit against Robin Thicke and Pharrell because even though I can't stand them and that song (or maybe especially because I can't stand that song) that song had almost no resemblance to the Marvin Gaye tune).

It may have come down to the cow bell.  Without it I might have listened to Blurred Lines and thought: "this song has a nice retro vibe."  The inclusion of the cow bell made me think: "this sounds like that Marvin Gaye song they always play at family reunions and block parties."

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