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jim6225

Lawsuit over Stairway to Heaven

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Here's another article:

 

http://uk.businessinsider.com/why-led-zeppelin-is-going-to-court-over-stairway-to-heaven-against-spirit-2016-4

 

 

I find it interesting that Wolf said in an interview in 1991 that he wasn't interested in suing Led Zeppelin, yet  his estate is now suing. 

 

Edited by timothy5151

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Not a lot of Spirit fans in here, pity, you don't know what you're missing. btw Stairway was inspired by Taurus, imho.

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On 4/12/2016 at 8:02 AM, dan30may said:

What a BS...Always those incapable to rise to fame will find a way to compensate for their mediocrity. If some sculptor takes a rock and makes a masterpiece worth 20 millions, those who owned that $2 rock will ask for a cut from what that rock became.
 

I agree with this.  

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Every song that the media uses to show songs were stolen are from very popular songs rearranged made popular again by another artist. Taurus  imho doesnt even start the same way as Stairway,nor sound like it from the beginning.

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On 4/12/2016 at 2:11 AM, Versus said:

The most interesting part of the judge's Order of Summary Judgement is the final section:

"Defendants also seek summary judgment on Plaintiff’s second claim, labeled “Right of Attribution—Equitable Relief—Falsification of Rock n’ Roll History.”

"The Court grants summary judgment on this claim. Plaintiff presents an inventive—yet legally baseless—claim creatively termed, “Falsification of Rock n’ Roll History.” The Court has diligently searched but is unable to locate any cognizable claim to support this theory of liability. Plaintiff’s Right of Attribution also fails, but for different reasons...

Now, what if Stairway to Heaven failed to generate any interest? There would be no historical rock and roll record. Is this a #SuccessPenalty?

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9 hours ago, JTM said:

Not a lot of Spirit fans in here, pity, you don't know what you're missing. btw Stairway was inspired by Taurus, imho.

Prolly lots of people who never heard of Spirit until they read Hammer of the Gods in 1985.  I like what I heard. It's just that Led Zeppelin is a bit of a gateway band, and if you choose to dig deeper, there's this whole history of music underneath.

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10 hours ago, JTM said:

Not a lot of Spirit fans in here, pity, you don't know what you're missing. btw Stairway was inspired by Taurus, imho.

If you truly feel that way then you will also have to acquiesce through logic and fact that Spirit was even more so influenced by Davey Graham's Cry Me A River when they wrote the descending arpeggio structure which does not begin until the middle of the song. The structure between those two songs is almost identical vs. the 4 similar notes shared by only the opening arpeggio in STH. So, if I were Jimmy & Robert, I would find a living relative of Davey to sue the Randy California estate for copying Graham's CMAR and then using a stolen structure to lay the blame on another artist.

One should be careful while strolling through the cactus as one might get pricked. That being said I too enjoy the music of Spirit, not all of it or even most of it but some is pretty good. Taurus is not one of their good songs, it is disjointed and meandering with no real point form beginning to end. Also, according to research, Spirit never played Taurus live at any gig's Zeppelin & Spirit played together, which BTW was only three or four I believe.

Edited by IpMan

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Strolling through the cactus? Anyway, there's nothing wrong with acknowledging "Taurus" and it's possible/probable influence on "Stairway". What difference does it make when or where it was played live or what influenced "Taurus"?  Zep were clearly aware of the band and their music.  That said, this lawsuit is a pathetic attempt at a money grab. What's in question is whether this courtroom will be able to employ common sense when considering the similarities and differences of these two songs.

 

 

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http://www.cbc.ca/news/arts/led-zeppelin-copyright-trial-1.3531641

 

According to the article, "Skidmore was able to overcome statute-of-limitations hurdles to sue over Stairway to Heaven because the song was remastered and re-released in 2014." , does this mean they can only go after the royalties for STH from the 2014 remasters? Legal jargon confuses me. If this is the case, I can't imagine the $$$ to be that much.

Edited by timothy5151

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12 hours ago, IpMan said:

If you truly feel that way then you will also have to acquiesce through logic and fact that Spirit was even more so influenced by Davey Graham's Cry Me A River when they wrote the descending arpeggio structure which does not begin until the middle of the song. The structure between those two songs is almost identical vs. the 4 similar notes shared by only the opening arpeggio in STH. So, if I were Jimmy & Robert, I would find a living relative of Davey to sue the Randy California estate for copying Graham's CMAR and then using a stolen structure to lay the blame on another artist.

One should be careful while strolling through the cactus as one might get pricked. That being said I too enjoy the music of Spirit, not all of it or even most of it but some is pretty good. Taurus is not one of their good songs, it is disjointed and meandering with no real point form beginning to end. Also, according to research, Spirit never played Taurus live at any gig's Zeppelin & Spirit played together, which BTW was only three or four I believe.

I would imagine JP would not want any mention of Davy Graham's CMAR, that would open a whole new can of worms.

10 hours ago, Badgeholder Still said:

Strolling through the cactus? Anyway, there's nothing wrong with acknowledging "Taurus" and it's possible/probable influence on "Stairway". What difference does it make when or where it was played live or what influenced "Taurus"?  Zep were clearly aware of the band and their music.  That said, this lawsuit is a pathetic attempt at a money grab. What's in question is whether this courtroom will be able to employ common sense when considering the similarities and differences of these two songs.

 

 

Totally agree this law suit is a cash grab, I really hope that it fails.  Just because the two numbers share similarities does not mean one is a copy of the other.

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I wouldn't even say that Stairway was in any way 'inspired' by Taurus. There's a tiny similarity in one short section - and that's all. It's either a simple coincidence or a parallel development based on similar influences. I don't believe for a minute that Jimmy heard Taurus and thought 'I'm having that'. Bullsh*t.

Edited by Brigante

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The worst thing about this is  is not any cash payout, but if there was a last-minute settle or if the trial went sour,

you would now have many  knuckleheads saying, "Led Zeppelin ?? They stole the idea(s) for their greatest song, and 

who knows how many more". I hope I am exaggerating but this notion has steam coming out of my ears. Some of

the Blues plagiarism, fine, Plant came close to the bone at times, although Page played totally different riffs.

Hopefully common sense will prevail, as despite the greatness of the rest of Zep's material, losing this case 

could be disasterous from a public relations view and a media feeding frenzy. Hope I'm exaggerating.

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On 2/28/2016 at 10:14 PM, RIP-IT-UP said:

I've discounted a Lot of Page's "borrowing" over the years; but now : to say in court that he "never heard Taurus"; didn't own any  Spirit records; nor  ever hear Spirit play live-is just a lie. I have a cassette interview of Page that was recorded off the radio in 1976 or 77, and he clearly states that Spirit and Kaleidoscope were 2 of the "best bands" he ever saw in the States. Now he denies all this. He lost me this time.

Let’s clear this up once and for ALL – Taurus and Stairway to Heaven are NOT even close in the opening; one song is a “descending” series of notes and the 2nd song is an “ascending” series of notes. Can we all just put this to bed once and for all…Fuck this whole discussion grates my nerves

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4 hours ago, Brigante said:

I wouldn't even say that Stairway was in any way 'inspired' by Taurus. There's a tiny similarity in one short section - and that's all. It's either a simple coincidence or a parallel development based on similar influences. I don't believe for a minute that Jimmy heard Taurus and thought 'I'm having that'. Bullsh*t.

Let’s clear this up once and for ALL – Taurus and Stairway to Heaven are NOT even close in the opening; one song is a “descending” series of notes and the 2nd song is an “ascending” series of notes. Can we all just put this to bed once and for all…Fuck this whole discussion grates my nerves.

Back in the early 80's when I was first learning to play a guitar I thought, wow they stole it, UNTIL I developed an ear for guitar, and before long when strumming a guitar I could clearly hear they were 2 different riffs

This entire discussion and debate and court case is such bullshit

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18 hours ago, timothy5151 said:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/arts/led-zeppelin-copyright-trial-1.3531641

 

According to the article, "Skidmore was able to overcome statute-of-limitations hurdles to sue over Stairway to Heaven because the song was remastered and re-released in 2014." , does this mean they can only go after the royalties for STH from the 2014 remasters? Legal jargon confuses me. If this is the case, I can't imagine the $$$ to be that much.

That is my understanding of it, that they would only be able to go after royalties that fall within the statute of limitations, such as the 2014 re-release. I'm no legal expert, but that's what I'd read.

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This is madness, agreed all around. Yet it is apparently going to trial, a settlement is unacceptable for all the obvious 

reasons. The trial won't be stopped by Zep fans sending in petitions for logic to the judge.

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If ambiguous notions like "concept" and "feel" are going to be the determining factors in musical copyright cases, rather than the actual notes, chords, and structure, then I see no reason for Led Zeppelin to NOT sue practically every hard rock band that came after them.

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