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butlerhunt2

1975 tone

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hi, i find the 75-77 tone is the easiest to come closest too. it will be hard to get that brittleness, but other than that you will be right on.

so Jimmy's actual gear was his guitar of choice, into an echoplex, into a 100w marshall, modified to 200w, and running KT-88 tubes. (into the PA system, into someones tape player, into youtube...) we don't know his exact amp settings, for 75, but volume isn't higher than 6, probably closer to 3, although it probably depended.

with your gear, you plug your guitar in to your amp, turn the amp up, but turn the distortion way down, his 75 tone is really really clean, you do want it loud though.

play around with it

mike

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hi, i find the 75-77 tone is the easiest to come closest too. it will be hard to get that brittleness, but other than that you will be right on.

so Jimmy's actual gear was his guitar of choice, into an echoplex, into a 100w marshall, modified to 200w, and running KT-88 tubes. (into the PA system, into someones tape player, into youtube...) we don't know his exact amp settings, for 75, but volume isn't higher than 6, probably closer to 3, although it probably depended.

with your gear, you plug your guitar in to your amp, turn the amp up, but turn the distortion way down, his 75 tone is really really clean, you do want it loud though.

play around with it

mike

Well said my friend! Welcome to the forum!!

1975 tone, any additional gear needed, how do you get it? thanks

Mate, you've got to be WAY more specific. You're either talking live set ups or within the studio. You never mentioned your budget, a song from PG (which in itself is a very vast album of many different sounds). This matters, but I'll try and help you the best I can.

For live, Jimmy kept things pretty consistent throughout the mid 70's on. The guy above is correct - Page used his 200W modified Marshall, a Super Lead if I might add. Yes, a maestro echoplex and very few other effects and pedals. A wah of some sort would be a good investment to consider. The MXR Phase 90 is quite superb for The Rover. I digress...

Don't get too caught up in the exact pedals, exact pickups, exact cabinets, etc Page used. The reality is, you'd have a awfully hard time accumulating these set ups and would cost a fortune. Also, if you think you can just wake up one day and say "Oh, I'm going to mod my future 100 watt Marshall to 200 watts" you're going about it the wrong way. That's way over my head and 99% of guitarists.

Page used a Les Paul. Any guitar like this, in addition to the multitude of valve amps out on the market will work.

The reality of the matter is -- and Jimmy himself would tell you this -- there is no "secret" like a lot of people make it out to be. It's just his LP straight into a cranked Marshall. No phase mods, etc, during this era, for live performances.

Until you give us more info on the specific sound you're trying to achieve, I'm afraid I can't add anymore without writing an entire encyclopedia. I plan on making a thread in the near future covering the specifics of Page's live tone and the most efficient way to accurately achieve it.

Remember though, gear isn't what gives you your tone. It's all in your hands.

Edited by anodizingstatic

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Anodizingstatic, you're a badass! you should please please please make a thread covering Jimmy's specific live tone. I can help in anyway possible, as i am a huge gear head / guitar / pedal freak :) Hey to the poster above asking the questions, I've got an Epiphone Les Paul that i've successfully installed 1959 Gibson PAF hum bucker pickups into, and ON ANY AMP it comes frighteningly close to the James Gang / Led Zeppelin Les Paul sound :) its my baby :) ill post pictures soon to my profile, probably tonight, id love for all you Zepheads to see it. Also, I've got a MXR Phase 90 which I've modified by removing one component with a pair of pliers, this very simple action has enabled my stock, new MXR Phase 90 to now sound like a vintage, script version. its not DEAD ON, but its close enough….also MXR Carbon Copy Delay will get you a multitude of any delay sound you've ever heard on a Zeppelin record from the near rockabilly slapback sounds on the intro of Candy Store Rock, to the gated sci-fi intro of Houses of The Holy, to the epic repeating majesty of Achilles Last Stand and Ten Years Gone. Also a Big Muff Russian Fuzz has enabled me to pin down some of the best distorted Zep sounds, sadly its not fuzzy enough for some of the best fuzz sounds……but REALLY….it IS all down to the fingers. Get your fingers going and worry about the rest later. I didn't get a Phase 90 or a Les Paul because of Jimmy Page, i got them because i loved how they sounded and they feel like ME. My favorite guitarist playing them is just an added bonus ;)

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Hello TheRover27- You mention you installed "1959 Gibson PAF Humbuckers" into your Epi Les Paul..... You have my curiosity up....

Are these actual, original late 50's era Gibson PAF's, or one of the more modern variants that Gibson has been manufacturing, i.e., Gibson Burstbuckers 1,2 or 3, or Gibson '57 Classics or the new Gibson Custom Buckers?

Since the going rate for original Gibson 1959 PAFs is in the ballpark of $5,000 for the pair, this would be a first that I had ever heard of..... $5K worth of extremely valuable and rare vintage PAF's going into a sub-$1000 Epiphone Les Paul.... Could you describe the tonal characteristics after the change of pickups from the stock Epiphone pickups you swapped?

PS - Nothing wrong with an Epiphone Les Paul - I personally would prefer to place vintage PAF's (and an associated late 50's vintage wiring harness - usually another $1000 - $1500) in a really good and resonant Gibson Les Paul '59 Historic Collection or even better, an actual, "old wood" 50's Gibson LP makeover that would require the original vintage parts for the restoration... Thanks for your post and the insight into your tone adjustments....

I agree with your assessment - the "fingers" are the components that provide the "soul" and expression into one's playing....

Edited by markbowmanimages

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lol! an epiphone les paul with PAF style hum buckers (i used the SD Seth lovers), into a carbon copy delay and flanger is my setup too! i'm using a boss flanger, but its not really on enough to matter...

i redid the lp a couple years ago, i added the gold grovers, like Mr Pages #1

-m

Edited by Mike S

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Hello TheRover27- You mention you installed "1959 Gibson PAF Humbuckers" into your Epi Les Paul..... You have my curiosity up....

Are these actual, original late 50's era Gibson PAF's, or one of the more modern variants that Gibson has been manufacturing, i.e., Gibson Burstbuckers 1,2 or 3, or Gibson '57 Classics or the new Gibson Custom Buckers?

Since the going rate for original Gibson 1959 PAFs is in the ballpark of $5,000 for the pair, this would be a first that I had ever heard of..... $5K worth of extremely valuable and rare vintage PAF's going into a sub-$1000 Epiphone Les Paul.... Could you describe the tonal characteristics after the change of pickups from the stock Epiphone pickups you swapped?

PS - Nothing wrong with an Epiphone Les Paul - I personally would prefer to place vintage PAF's (and an associated late 50's vintage wiring harness - usually another $1000 - $1500) in a really good and resonant Gibson Les Paul '59 Historic Collection or even better, an actual, "old wood" 50's Gibson LP makeover that would require the original vintage parts for the restoration... Thanks for your post and the insight into your tone adjustments....

I agree with your assessment - the "fingers" are the components that provide the "soul" and expression into one's playing....

at first the pickups were stock Epiphone / Gibson pickups (whichever Epiphone have installed in their stock guitars) and they were fuzzier than hell, absolutely were abysmal to play with. my cousin, Chase, a very skilled guitar maker himself / technician / tone freak told me about a buddy he had who was selling a 1959 Gibson Les Paul. i was about 15 and knew i couldnt afford it but just wanted to see the thing. we went over and i checked it out and was in awe the whole time and had a crazy idea from reading all kinds of Eddie Van Halen Guitar magazine interviews where he'd do a lot of trial and error things with guitars and amps and pedals and i wanted to at least have a piece of that guitar in front of me, and to be honest, i thought offering for the pickups would make him just relent and sell the guitar cheaper seeing that it was gonna have its main components gutted out of it. but he knew nothing of guitars and gave no fucks and sold them for 300 hundred each (these were i believe Gibson PAFs that were in many of these late 50s Les Paul models, so your correct in saying THEY WERE A STEAL ) . my cousin later laughed on the way home but was smart enough to keep a straight face, i didnt know any better. he didnt know i wanted to put them into my Les Paul but when i told him he said there was a chance of fucking up the pickups and the guitar itself and i said i didnt care i was willing to gamble. he took three weeks with my Les Paul but when he had me come over and check it out it was unreal. i plugged it into his Marshall and it sounded like it hadnt before. the guitar became whole, it still made me have to work for its sound, i still have to wrestle with the strings, wrestle with my amp, but it does NOT contribute any amount of feedback that I DONT want. its a special guitar. Chase really thought it wouldnt work and wanted to try it in a Les Paul Custom first, just because it was thicker but he was willing to humor me and it turned out to be an incredible experiment. the tone is contained and it feels like its just bridling over the wood just oozing out whenever i roll those volume and tone knobs on. it sustains like ive never heard. it truly sounds better than any Les Paul I've ever played and I've played some beauties, some classics.

It WAS risk, and my naivete at the time (being only 15) was the driving factor in this being almost a divine experiment hahah. it seriously was the tone id always wanted, the tone you hear when Billy Gibbons goes crazy with on Fandango! , the one that Jimmy has in the pre-1975 era Zeppelin sound (ultra distorted, creamy fuzz instead of the mid 70s clean chunk and bone rattling clank) . i know this all sounds weird, and it is, but i love that guitar and its shocked a lot of people ive played it in front of. i once did a guitar store contest alongside many better and richer equipped players who really blew me out of the water and i defintely didnt get close in the contest but every last one of them said you have a beautiful tone, man and a really amazing guitar keep those fingers going and dont stop playing. a simple rig makes you explore the biggest most ambitious sounds you can get out of so little, and THAT my friends is where the beauty is found, when you think you need a completely different pedal added to the chain to get a certain tone but then you turn the dial on accident and WOAH there it is, right there , THATS THE FUCKING SOUND. ive had way too many of these moments with a simple set up of highly advanced pedals in their awesomeness and amazingality (yes, new word there) with just a Phase 90, a Carbon Copy Delay (the best pedal on the market for any tone, any sound, anywhere anyhow anyway) a fuzz and a wah. it feels like Jimmy used a lot of slapback delay on a lot of live stuff if you listen for it (or is that the Echoplex?)

Edited by therover27

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I hope I can be of some assistance...

I'm assuming you, like me, don't have an unlimitied budget at your disposal. Of course the sky's the limit, but let's think realistically. There are 4 things necessary for his live 70s tone...

1. A resonant Les Paul with decently bright pickups (use 8-9 gauge strings to help)

2. A wah pedal that sounds close to an Italian-made JEN Cry Baby or a Vox V846

3. A delay set to a 100ms slap-back (1 repeat)

4. An amp with non-cheesy overdrive, no need for valves if it sounds good.

Now here are a few pointers:

Set your Les Paul's controls like this: bridge vol. 9 / tone 5, neck vol. 9 / tone 7. Sounds wrong for a traditional bright sound, but leave the wah on all the time. Cocked for standard tone, as the extreme brightness is tamed by the guitars tone caps, while the slightly lower volume allows the presence to cut the mustard. It also give the sweep a tight "coowah" sound rather than the normal "ooohaahh". Make sure your delay's repeat is about 1/4 the volume of your dry signal, which makes it sound more like a cathedral-type reverb. Lastly set your amp to a loud, fairly overdriven tone. I set my amp like this: gain-5, volume-6, bass-4, mids-3, treble-9, reverb-5. A valve amp is not required; most of Pagey's grit is coming from the preamp and how it interacts with the effects. A good solid state amp should react similarly.

This is at room level (i could hear the strings over the amp)

http://youtu.be/0BCp4Uc-Znk

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