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SamG

The editing remains the same

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A few years ago, I wished for the re-release of TSRTS with fantasy scenes omitted and all tracks in there unedited form.

And although the live sequences are quite superb in its original form, I guess I was a little disappointed that my schoolboy fantasy didn't come true.

If you watch carefully, some of the footage is incongruous with the sound (obviously from different shows) and Moby dick's editing is quite jarring and inharmonious. It is also different from the CD (well the old version anyway.) If Bonham had of drummed this way, I'd have slight reservations, but I know he didn't.

So....another project for you Mr. Page. Please release TSRTS in its unbridled form.

love Sam

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I'm sure there must be other threads on this topic, but the short answer is: Led Zeppelin doesn't own the film. They don't have rights to re-edit it.

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I'm sure there must be other threads on this topic, but the short answer is: Led Zeppelin doesn't own the film. They don't have rights to re-edit it.

Damn you Warner brothers!

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A little bit off the main subject, but I like this quote from Jimmy Page's interview with Steven Rosen in '77 (from ultimate-guitar.com):

(when asked about mistakes in "I Can't Quit You Baby" from the first album, he goes on to say...)

"It's like the film track album [The Song Remains the Same]; there's no editing really on that. It wasn't the best concert, playing-wise, at all, but it was the only one with celluloid footage, so there it was. It was all right; it was just one "as-it-is" performance. It wasn't one of those real magic nights, but then again it wasn't a terrible night. So, for all its mistakes and everything else, it's a very honest filmtrack. Rather than just trailing around through a tour with a recording mobile truck waiting for the magic night, it was just, "There you are - take it or leave it." I've got a lot of live recorded stuff going back to '69."

Just thought that was interesting... And funny.

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A little bit off the main subject, but I like this quote from Jimmy Page's interview with Steven Rosen in '77 (from ultimate-guitar.com):

(when asked about mistakes in "I Can't Quit You Baby" from the first album, he goes on to say...)

"It's like the film track album [The Song Remains the Same]; there's no editing really on that. It wasn't the best concert, playing-wise, at all, but it was the only one with celluloid footage, so there it was. It was all right; it was just one "as-it-is" performance. It wasn't one of those real magic nights, but then again it wasn't a terrible night. So, for all its mistakes and everything else, it's a very honest filmtrack. Rather than just trailing around through a tour with a recording mobile truck waiting for the magic night, it was just, "There you are - take it or leave it." I've got a lot of live recorded stuff going back to '69."

Just thought that was interesting... And funny.

No no editing at all :hysterical:

Check out this site. This guy spent some serious time breaking the whole thing down.

http://www.thegardentapes.co.uk/

I like how the page starts out;

"I love the live version of 'No Quarter', it blows the studio version away," a friend of mine said to me once, some time ago.

"Which live version are you talking about?" I enquired.

"The one from 'The Song Remains The Same', of course," said my friend, slightly bemused by this question. He's never been the type to go in for collecting bootleg recordings.

"Oh, right," I said. "But which version, the film or the album?" At this point my friend began to regret the foolishness of starting a conversation like this with me and decided to go away and find somebody normal to talk to.

If you think you would have had a similar reaction to that of my friend, then it might be a good idea for you to stop reading now. If, on the other hand, you're no more normal than I am, then welcome to the complete guide to the construction of Led Zeppelin's film and album "The Song Remains The Same" from the three concerts at Madison Square Garden, New York on the 27th, 28th and 29th of July 1973.

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No no editing at all :hysterical:

Check out this site. This guy spent some serious time breaking the whole thing down.

http://www.thegardentapes.co.uk/

I like how the page starts out;

"I love the live version of 'No Quarter', it blows the studio version away," a friend of mine said to me once, some time ago.

"Which live version are you talking about?" I enquired.

"The one from 'The Song Remains The Same', of course," said my friend, slightly bemused by this question. He's never been the type to go in for collecting bootleg recordings.

"Oh, right," I said. "But which version, the film or the album?" At this point my friend began to regret the foolishness of starting a conversation like this with me and decided to go away and find somebody normal to talk to.

If you think you would have had a similar reaction to that of my friend, then it might be a good idea for you to stop reading now. If, on the other hand, you're no more normal than I am, then welcome to the complete guide to the construction of Led Zeppelin's film and album "The Song Remains The Same" from the three concerts at Madison Square Garden, New York on the 27th, 28th and 29th of July 1973.

The cuts in moby dick are horrendous!

(taken from your link)

02:32 (2:57 removed)

03:03 (0:40 removed)

04:13 (0:32 removed)

05:12 (1:45 removed)

05:41 (0:51 removed)

06:44 (0:27 removed)

08:05 (0:34 removed)

08:42 (3:46 removed)

09:25 (1:06 removed)

09:38 (0:36 removed)

10:20 (2:10 removed)

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this may have already been beaten to death here...but right now Eddie has this on his site.

"Work is underway on a complete re-write of The Garden Tapes that will not only cover the new releases, but will also incorporate additional information about the original releases and correct a number of errors, omissions and over-simplifications. Unfortunately, I have to ask all Garden Tapes readers to be patient as my time is limited at the moment because of a number of personal issues. I will get the new version completed as quickly as I can and I very much hope you will find it worth waiting for. In the meantime, I suggest you follow the advice that some Garden Tapes readers have offered to me from time to time - just watch, listen, enjoy and forget about all the details!

I'm receiving an increasing amount of correspondence regarding The Garden Tapes at the present time, inspired, no doubt, by the new releases. Please accept my apologies if I'm not always able to respond quickly to emails. I will try to reply to all correspondence in due course.

Thanks to all Garden Tapes readers for your continuing interest, and to Led Zeppelin and Kevin Shirley for keeping me both entertained and busy!"

Kinda cool that this site has gained so much notoriety that with the new re-issues this guy is being inundated with inquiries as to when he will update to include the new TSRTS material.

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A few years ago, I wished for the re-release of TSRTS with fantasy scenes omitted and all tracks in there unedited form.

And although the live sequences are quite superb in its original form, I guess I was a little disappointed that my schoolboy fantasy didn't come true.

If you watch carefully, some of the footage is incongruous with the sound (obviously from different shows) and Moby dick's editing is quite jarring and inharmonious. It is also different from the CD (well the old version anyway.) If Bonham had of drummed this way, I'd have slight reservations, but I know he didn't.

So....another project for you Mr. Page. Please release TSRTS in its unbridled form.

love Sam

If the movie was able to be put out like that..It would have been. The reason there are so many fantacy sequences is because the camera men didn't film a lot of the show. A lot of the shots were just shots of the croud that night. Jimmy Page talks about this in an interview and he thinks that the camera men were stoned and that is why they were not filming so much of the concert.

And the editing had to happen because of copyrights and other stuff like that.

Sorry but your dream will never happen..

Well, it might if they decide to not call it the song remains the same and just have it be a "Madison Square Garden" dvd. They could also do an earl's court dvd with all that footage they have, and knebworth as well.

Edited by Zoso2112

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Page needs to dig out some of his dusty pro-shots and release them. I'm getting tired of plants bad voice from TSRTS. We need a Japan 1971 Pro-Shot or a La Forum 1972 Pro-Shot.

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Page needs to dig out some of his dusty pro-shots and release them. I'm getting tired of plants bad voice from TSRTS. We need a Japan 1971 Pro-Shot or a La Forum 1972 Pro-Shot.

Plants voice wasn't bad in TSRTS.

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Plants voice wasn't bad in TSRTS.

It wasn't nearly as strong as it was between Jan. 1970 through the summer '72 tour, either. Or the first leg of the '73 US tour for that matter.

Edited by solar

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Page needs to dig out some of his dusty pro-shots and release them. I'm getting tired of plants bad voice from TSRTS. We need a Japan 1971 Pro-Shot or a La Forum 1972 Pro-Shot.

So far as I know, there isn't even rumor that pro shot footage exists of these shows. However, there is multitrack audio of Japan, I feel like Jimmy may be saving that for one of his last big bang releases, hard to imagine a Led Zeppelin live release that could top Live In Japan 1971. And as far as footage goes, Bath '70 is out there, and that has the potential to be the best footage of the band that exists. Fingers crossed!

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this may have already been beaten to death here...but right now Eddie has this on his site.

"Work is underway on a complete re-write of The Garden Tapes...

It's worth mentioning that the update is now complete & The Garden Tapes has the new versions covered in depth too.

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So far as I know, there isn't even rumor that pro shot footage exists of these shows. However, there is multitrack audio of Japan, I feel like Jimmy may be saving that for one of his last big bang releases, hard to imagine a Led Zeppelin live release that could top Live In Japan 1971. And as far as footage goes, Bath '70 is out there, and that has the potential to be the best footage of the band that exists. Fingers crossed!

Threre was a multitrack audio. The few books and countless internet sites claims that jimmy did't like how the recordings sound and recorded over them. Now i could be off on my year, but it does dictate japan as the location. I think Osaska 2nd night.

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Threre was a multitrack audio. The few books and countless internet sites claims that jimmy did't like how the recordings sound and recorded over them. Now i could be off on my year, but it does dictate japan as the location. I think Osaska 2nd night.

That was the word for many years, Peter Grant even recounted that in an interview and said "so it was goodbye, Live in Japan".

But, in his new version of "A Concert File", Dave Lewis confirms that the tapes exist and were reviewed for the HTWWW/DVD project and rejected. I'll post a quote tonight . . .

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That was the word for many years, Peter Grant even recounted that in an interview and said "so it was goodbye, Live in Japan".

But, in his new version of "A Concert File", Dave Lewis confirms that the tapes exist and were reviewed for the HTWWW/DVD project and rejected. I'll post a quote tonight . . .

Some of the Japanese shows were recorded at the insistence of Atlantic's Japanese Warner Pioneer Label. Grant recalls: "There was this six track transistorized board. Jimmy was a bit worried about this, so the deal I made was that they could record if we could have the tapes and take them back to England and approve it. So Jimmy listened to them and found them to be terrible. So he took the tapes back and wiped over them and used them again. So it was goodby 'Live in Japan'.

Page did in fact rediscover some of these tapes when researching their tape archive in 1997, but they were not considered good enough to warrant official release when it came to sourcing material for the DVD and the live album in 2003.

- From the 9/29/71 entry.

"Some of these tapes"- does that mean some tapes of one show . . . or tapes of some shows? Can you imagine a multi show box set of Japan 71 shows, professionally recorded? Just because they don't come up to Mr. Page's very exacting audio standards doesn't mean they won't sound damn good to a bunch of bootleg fans like us.

Edited by Magic Sam

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"Some of these tapes"- does that mean some tapes of one show . . . or tapes of some shows? Can you imagine a multi show box set of Japan 71 shows, professionally recorded?

Or perhaps, as was done with HTWWW, a hybrid of the best moments salvaged from the run? Hell, I'd buy it! :beer:

BTW, nice to see you Sam! :wave:

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Good to see you too, sir! :beer:

You're probably right, highlights in a HTWWW type set does sound more like Jimmy. (HTEWW?)

But from the sound of things, Jimmy would never release it. Morbidly, I think we might have to wait until Jimmy is no longer in charge of Zeppelin.

UNLESS it's all a smokescreen and the tapes are excellent. Maybe the tapes weren't too bad to give to the Japanese subsidiary label, but too good. In my mind, there isn't much better live zep than Japan '71. I could see Jimmy wanting to keep "Live In Japan" in his holster for one more round of DVD/HTWWW style madness. But I think it's unlikely.

I'm just happy the tape exists in some form. Any recording made with a six track is probably pretty good, I'm sure Jimmy thinks the new Paris 69 tape sucks too!

This is a pet subject of mine because I think this confirmation from Dave Lewis hasn't gotten enough attention from bootleg fans. Certainly 9/29/71 is one of my favorite shows, and the idea of a potentially massive upgrade in sound quality is mind boggling. And if there's more than one show?

:banana:

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I'm just glad to know it exists. As we now know from the release of the long rumored EC footage, f it exists, there's a good chance it will come out some day. In a way, I hope it comes out unofficially; because if "the editing remains the same", Jimmy will edit out every Beatles snippet, and "Where's Bonham?".

:rolleyes:

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I'm just glad to know it exists. As we now know from the release of the long rumored EC footage, f it exists, there's a good chance it will come out some day. In a way, I hope it comes out unofficially; because if "the editing remains the same", Jimmy will edit out every Beatles snippet, and "Where's Bonham?".

:rolleyes:

My favourite bootleg/gig as well...but think it must be the quality of the recording Page has a problem with. You could picture them pretty excited to hear their performance (the amazing memories of the tour) only to find its a botched job. OK quality fo a bootleg, but not up to par for release.

Maybe they should follow in the footsteps of Zappa and release it looking like a bootleg (only remaster the tapes first!)

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