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ScarletMacaw

Why do we tolerate stealing?

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Justification for "stealing" ...

The whole business model has changed, and it's better for the consumer now. Do you know how many times I've purchased DSOTM ... vinyl, cassette, CD .. (never did the 8-track thing) ... ? The publishers and distros didn't have a problem with THAT model, did they ? If I owned a "license" to the music, I should have just been charged for new media. But I wasn't.

New bands know that there is often no money in album sales any longer; it's touring and merchandising. I find that sad of course, but yes, times have changed and YouTube is a simply promotional / sampling tool to generate interest.

Often, stuff that was out of print manages to come back due to renewed interest via modern technology (I think Nick Drake is an example). So it is both a trade off, and a cold dish of revenge for the consumer, IMHO.

p.s. I'm a bedroom musician, and something akin to a s/w developer for a living. That means I create original things.

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the cat's kinda out of the bag on that one....unless they are going to take everyone's cell phones at the door

I think artists realize there isn't much they can do about it anymore

So, if you are suggesting that artists have changed with the times, that would be a good lesson for anyone who has failed to recognize the realities of the modern world. For every bad there is an opposing good. YouTube has only convinced me that I should fork over more of my cash to the artists that have passed muster after a YouTube visit.

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Wow, a lot of defensive responses. Many people seem not to have actually read what I initially posted, or maybe they weren't wearing their reading glasses.

A Youtube video of one tune might be publicity; a Youtube "video" of an entire album is not "publicity." I think I said I had no problem with someone taping "part of" a concert, not the whole thing.

In the shows that I have been to recently, I have not heard any of the artists say anything about people's obvious Iphones nor have I seen signs in the venues saying "no taping allowed." On the other hand, at Broadway theater venues, there are signs and notices indicating no taping or photography is allowed and anyone trying to do so is ejected. I don't tape shows myself. I also never taped any albums in the 70s. I borrowed and lent albums. I didn't feel like I had to own every piece of music.

That's the thing I wanted to point out.. When I was a teenager in the mid 70's, I would make shitloads of tapes, give them to my friends, borrow their albums and tape them. Still, I had well over a thousand albums (still do). These recordings in no way slowed down my regular weekly trips to the local independent record store.. (RIP). In fact, those tapes as others here have pointed out had the opposite effect.. "man I love this tape Fred made me!!! I have to get this album!!"... I could walk into the record store with 10 bucks in my pocket and walk out with at least 2-3 albums every time. Some new, some used … didn't matter, they were new to me.

The homemade tapes were considered disposable. The albums were like gold..

The music business was thriving then because, face it, the music was much better, the packaging, etc all better.. The price was much better too.. and most importantly, everything wasn't available at the click of a button like today…

I used to comb the flea markets and go to expos in Boston to find bootlegs and whatever.. all available at the click of a button now..

Today, people don't want to pay 15-18 dollars for music that they can listen to for free.. Sad but true... I really can't be bothered to download or copy, but I understand why it's happening..

The business has severely priced themselves out of demand and a lot of people have found other ways to get it.

Plus, there are too many other bills and prioriities now we didn't have when I was a kid, Cable, cell phone, etc

Also, now everything has to be smaller… "I can fit 40,000 songs on my thumb drive"… wow! good for you! But they sound like crap...

The music magazine business is all but dead too. You can get everything you want online..

I would make the weekly rounds looking for the new Hit Parader, Creem, Circus, Rock Scene Kerrang etc… all gone!!!

Edited by the chase

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That's the thing I wanted to point out.. When I was a teenager in the mid 70's, I would make shitloads of tapes, give them to my friends, borrow their albums and tape them. Still, I had well over a thousand albums (still do). These recordings in no way slowed down my regular weekly trips to the local independent record store.. (RIP). In fact, those tapes as others here have pointed out had the opposite effect.. "man I love this tape Fred made me!!! I have to get this album!!"... I could walk into the record store with 10 bucks in my pocket and walk out with at least 2-3 albums every time. Some new, some used … didn't matter, they were new to me.

The homemade tapes were considered disposable. The albums were like gold..

The music business was thriving then because, face it, the music was much better, the packaging, etc all better.. The price was much better too.. and most importantly, everything wasn't available at the click of a button like today…

I used to comb the flea markets and go to expos in Boston to find bootlegs and whatever.. all available at the click of a button now..

Today, people don't want to pay 15-18 dollars for music that they can listen to for free.. Sad but true... I really can't be bothered to download or copy, but I understand why it's happening..

The business has severely priced themselves out of demand and a lot of people have found other ways to get it.

Plus, there are too many other bills and prioriities now we didn't have when I was a kid, Cable, cell phone, etc

Also, now everything has to be smaller… "I can fit 40,000 songs on my thumb drive"… wow! good for you! But they sound like crap...

The music magazine business is all but dead too. You can get everything you want online..

I would make the weekly rounds looking for the new Hit Parader, Creem, Circus, Rock Scene Kerrang etc… all gone!!!

Agreed. Music on thumb drives!? Music by streaming!? Nope. YouTube is for research, but this how I really listen to my music, and I have no desire to change:

018b_zps07aa7cc9.jpg

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Agreed. Music on thumb drives!? Music by streaming!? Nope. YouTube is for research, but this how I really listen to my music, and I have no desire to change:

018b_zps07aa7cc9.jpg

That is a very nice looking setup DL!!

That looks just like my old reel to reel.. very cool.

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I cannot stand people who steal so I do not tolerate it but what can I do about it? Where I work, I know that people steal all the time (the customers not the employees although there are employees that steal from their own employer(s)). Especially the people that steal for a living.

The only time that I ever stole was when I was getting high with a couple of friends (back in 1985) and one of my friends left his bag of weed out and I took (or borrowed) a couple of nice buds from him. Now that I think about it, with all the weed that I smoked with him, I do not consider that a theft or thievery. It was compensation for lack of returning the favor, and when I smoked it later that night by myself, if I can remember correctly, I might have felt a slight pang of guilt.

To all the people that steal, I got one thing to say to you: FUCK YOU!!! I HOPE YOU GET CAUGHT AND GO TO JAIL/PRISON!!!

Edited by kingzoso

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To all the people that steal, I got one thing to say to you: FUCK YOU!!! I HOPE YOU GET CAUGHT AND GO TO JAIL/PRISON!!!

Will these pearls of wisdom ever stop!?

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True true, Strider!

YouTube has introduced me to so many different bands and live clips that have encouraged me to see bands I have never seen before. Plus all the stuff I used to have on VCR tapes that have gone like the dinosaur (or Dodo bird ;)) is right there to be seen again.

Spot on Walter. I used to a lot of stuff on VHS. Illegally taped off the TV of course. It's a real treat to see and hear again lost concerts. Off the top of my head:

Rock Goes to Collage. Aired on BBC in the 70's.

AC/DC. A brilliant performance from @ 1978

Rory Gallagher

Steve Hillage

Gentle Giant

Many many more

German and French stuff too. Lost in the depths of time. Deep Purple and the Sabs too.

One show I have been looking for for years: Todd Rundgren's performance of Singring and the Glass Guitar from Berkeley Records show from the 70's. The programme also included ( i think) Foghat. Todd's performance is incredible. It was aired on the BBC @ 1977/8. I had it on VHS but I think it was taped over by a family member - probably for something terrible

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Wow, a lot of defensive responses. Many people seem not to have actually read what I initially posted, or maybe they weren't wearing their reading glasses.

A Youtube video of one tune might be publicity; a Youtube "video" of an entire album is not "publicity." I think I said I had no problem with someone taping "part of" a concert, not the whole thing.

In the shows that I have been to recently, I have not heard any of the artists say anything about people's obvious Iphones nor have I seen signs in the venues saying "no taping allowed." On the other hand, at Broadway theater venues, there are signs and notices indicating no taping or photography is allowed and anyone trying to do so is ejected. I don't tape shows myself. I also never taped any albums in the 70s. I borrowed and lent albums. I didn't feel like I had to own every piece of music.

Kate Bush's London shows recently, she banned ALL devices. I am not sure how it was policed but there is nothing on You Tube from those nights.

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Recording a movie or a concert off the TV or copying a buddies album is about as criminal as removing the mattress tag warning.

Now if you're taking these recordings, mass producing them, setting up a table at the flea market or going on ebay and selling them… well yeah that's illegal and the culprit should go to jail/fucking prison..

Sorry king, I couldn't help myself...

I also have tons of movies and concerts on VHS in my basement collecting dust and quite a bit recorded on my DVR.. I don't consider this wrong or illegal.. but lessoned learned.

Most of it was a waste of time and effort.

I pay way too much for cable service though and if I want to watch something later or more then once, that's my right… I'm not running some black market reproduction ring..

Edited by the chase

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When I was a teenager (late 80's - all through the 90's), vinyl records were slowly replaced by cd's.

But..., I do remember my parents at the time still having a stereo set, including a record player and a cassette player. So I am a child

of that transition period, when we went from vinly records and cassette tapes to cd's.

After that audio-technology changed a lot and today I use YouTube and Spotify mostly for research.

(OK, Spotify is also handy for listening to music on the way to and from work, lol! Alright, as a teen I had a walkman....)

It's sad, but true, that the internet is giving people so many upportunities for getting the music for free........

You know what folks, I really like the idea that vinyl and record players are now making a comeback. I am so happy, actually having a

record player again! So artists once again putting out their albums on vinyl and I love it!

That sounds like an idea for friday evening, relaxing with a fav. record on, enjoying music and a glass of white wine..........

Maaike

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When I was a teenager (late 80's - all through the 90's), vinyl records were slowly replaced by cd's.

But..., I do remember my parents at the time still having a stereo set, including a record player and a cassette player. So I am a child

of that transition period, when we went from vinly records and cassette tapes to cd's.

After that audio-technology changed a lot and today I use YouTube and Spotify mostly for research.

(OK, Spotify is also handy for listening to music on the way to and from work, lol! Alright, as a teen I had a walkman....)

It's sad, but true, that the internet is giving people so many upportunities for getting the music for free........

You know what folks, I really like the idea that vinyl and record players are now making a comeback. I am so happy, actually having a

record player again! So artists once again putting out their albums on vinyl and I love it!

That sounds like an idea for friday evening, relaxing with a fav. record on, enjoying music and a glass of white wine..........

Maaike

Vinyl never went away if you liked Techno/Dance music

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Wow, a lot of defensive responses. Many people seem not to have actually read what I initially posted, or maybe they weren't wearing their reading glasses.

A Youtube video of one tune might be publicity; a Youtube "video" of an entire album is not "publicity." I think I said I had no problem with someone taping "part of" a concert, not the whole thing.

In the shows that I have been to recently, I have not heard any of the artists say anything about people's obvious Iphones nor have I seen signs in the venues saying "no taping allowed." On the other hand, at Broadway theater venues, there are signs and notices indicating no taping or photography is allowed and anyone trying to do so is ejected. I don't tape shows myself. I also never taped any albums in the 70s. I borrowed and lent albums. I didn't feel like I had to own every piece of music.

I should probably take Chuck's advice, but your continued condescension towards the other members who were generous enough with their time to participate in your thread is really irksome.

So let's see if I have this right...

First, you post a topic with a title that right off the bat accuses us of allowing "stealing" to go on! Stealing, oh my..."whatever does she mean?" I wondered as I first saw the thread title. People stealing cars? People stealing food? People stealing credit card information? What atrocity were us Forum members tacitly tolerating?

Then I read your post and it turned out, horrors of horrors, your knickers were in a twist because of some YouTube posts in the What Are You Listening To? thread. Your thread title is a question, which suggests you wanted answers from us forum members. However, when the other members answers didn't agree with your definition of "stealing" and the use of YouTube clips, you then called us "defensive" and said we needed reading glasses. This from someone who almost routinely misreads and/or misinterprets other people's posts. Ha! Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

If this is an inkling of what your therapy sessions are like, I feel sorry for your patients.

As has been pointed out repeatedly to you, to equate a YouTube video of an album with the real thing is ridiculous. A YouTube clip, besides having inferior audio quality to the actual album, also doesn't include the artwork and the liner notes and photos and other fun ephemera you get with an actual album. Anyone who would accept YouTube as a substitute for owning the real album itself probably isn't much of a music fan to begin with, and not part of the record-buying public. So a band would not be losing sales because of people like this because they would never buy their album anyway.

Also, in defense of the forum members here, I am willing to bet that any member who has posted a YouTube video of a complete album already owns said album in cd, vinyl or iTunes form of some kind...what they are doing is merely the internet version of making a cassette copy of an album you've bought to share with a friend.

Oh, but that's another of your arrogant little boasts to us...YOU "never taped any albums in the 70s". How morally superior you are to us heathens.

Edited by Strider

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Agreed. Music on thumb drives!? Music by streaming!? Nope. YouTube is for research, but this how I really listen to my music, and I have no desire to change:

018b_zps07aa7cc9.jpg

THE Photo of the Day!!! Bonus points for the Reel-to-Reel and the Bobby helmet! Hats off to The Dark Lord...a man who truly knows how to listen to music in style. :thumbsup:Waaaay UP!

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THE Photo of the Day!!! Bonus points for the Reel-to-Reel and the Bobby helmet! Hats off to The Dark Lord...a man who truly knows how to listen to music in style. :thumbsup:Waaaay UP!

Thanks brother. I know that you have a strong appreciation for the finer things in life too! Cheers.

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The would be a nice listening room, with a fat one, and the lava lamps flowin'! :thumbsup:

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THE Photo of the Day!!! Bonus points for the Reel-to-Reel and the Bobby helmet! Hats off to The Dark Lord...a man who truly knows how to listen to music in style. :thumbsup:Waaaay UP!

Completely true, and an awesome vinyl collection.

Kudos to the man from Mordor.

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THE Photo of the Day!!! Bonus points for the Reel-to-Reel and the Bobby helmet! Hats off to The Dark Lord...a man who truly knows how to listen to music in style. :thumbsup:Waaaay UP!

That's how to listen to music!!!! I too have a similar photo, (without the reel-to-reel) our Grundig fell foul to age a few years ago.

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What colour is the lava lamp? Ours is orange/red. I am colour blind.

The vintage one with the gold base is red. The repro one with the black base is blue. The small vintage silver based one is filled with silver confetti and it provides an amazing show. It is simply stunning to watch all three of these in action when the room lights are off, and an ambiance filled record is playing.

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Technically I think people who post youtube videos with music that isn't their is stealing. It says on the music when you buy it is copywrited and that just lets you yourself listen to it. If you make copies for other people you are stealing. Led Zeppelin blocks a lot of their music on youtube because it is their music and because people stole it.

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On Youtube its (i think) not stealing,  they just want share with other people his favorites songs, his favorites scenes of movies..

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