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Black Dog 71

Predictions for PG and Presence

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^ I concur with the above sentiments. As someone who has virtually all of the black marketed recordings of their studio sessions coupled with the stolen private demos of Page, I've yet to hear anything (aside from LaLa) that I haven't heard before or care to hear now. Page could have done something with the Bron-Yr-Aur tapes for III or include the original workings of Ten Years Gone from 1973 onto the PG remasters (which I extremely doubt he did). How about the IMTOD rehearsal where Bonzo is yelling at Plant because he can't get the timing of the vocal harmony down? Priceless studio banter that shows how their personal relationship really was a love/hate/love affair while the recording also shows how the band functioned in the song writing process. Even to include the "California Sessions" of rockabilly jams from 1975 would be a bonus for the Presence disc because mainstream fans have never heard it before. To say you've gone through the vaults (including bootlegs) and not include live interpretations, especially when there are hundreds to choose from, I have to say this whole remasters thing was a missed opportunity. I understand why Robert said what he did.

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Hate to spoil the fun, but there will not be any live material on the remaining albums. At least that's what Page said about it in some early interviews during the re-releases of Led Zeppelin and Led Zeppelin II, so you don't have to worry about clubbing any baby seals or or poppin' a cap on a nun.

Edited by Rock Historian

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I wasn't hoping to be negative, but the Beatles Anthology 6 CD set from a few years back set the benchmark. To be fair, Zep did not record like the Beatles (vocals in all takes), but surely there is more interesting stuff. How about the Pedal Steel guitar version of BIGLY that Page was photo'd rehearsing for the 1977 tour? That's never been heard as far as I know...and Fire, and Say I'm Gonna Leave You; and In the Morning. Wait! There's still hope for this stuff on the upcoming releases. But I guess we never will hear the alternate STH studio solos....

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I wasn't hoping to be negative, but the Beatles Anthology 6 CD set from a few years back set the benchmark. To be fair, Zep did not record like the Beatles (vocals in all takes), but surely there is more interesting stuff. How about the Pedal Steel guitar version of BIGLY that Page was photo'd rehearsing for the 1977 tour? That's never been heard as far as I know...and Fire, and Say I'm Gonna Leave You; and In the Morning. Wait! There's still hope for this stuff on the upcoming releases. But I guess we never will hear the alternate STH studio solos....

With all that you've mentioned here, do really really know what quality these wished recording are in or if the masters were still in Jimmy's hands? This is considering the amount of master recordings that were stolen from his residence during the 80's. Jimmy only likes to work from the master recordings so this may have imposed a dilemma if an option, but I don't have any info on this. Perhaps, Jimmy will elaborate in the future why certain recordings weren't used that were known to exist...

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With all that you've mentioned here, do really really know what quality these wished recording are in or if the masters were still in Jimmy's hands? This is considering the amount of master recordings that were stolen from his residence during the 80's. Jimmy only likes to work from the master recordings so this may have imposed a dilemma if an option, but I don't have any info on this. Perhaps, Jimmy will elaborate in the future why certain recordings weren't used that were known to exist...

Wasn't there a case about a year ago of some physical graffiti master tapes going up for auction, and the auction being suspended pending legal action? Hopefully that means Page has got some new outtakes for PG to play with :)

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Wasn't there a case about a year ago of some physical graffiti master tapes going up for auction, and the auction being suspended pending legal action? Hopefully that means Page has got some new outtakes for PG to play with :)

I remember that, but not sure what exactly those consisted of. I don't think what was contained in these was revealed, unless someone here knows more.

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Whinge, whinge, fucking whinge!

Talk about casting pearls before swine...

It was inevitable that some would be disappointed with the releases and III is the best of the bunch IMO, so far.

Obviously these releases are aimed at the casual or at best, moderate listeners.

Not hard core Zepheads.

Right or wrong Jimmy is probably going with the assumtion that hard core people would most likely have everything that was either stolen and / or bootlegged in their possession.

Jimmy is analogue in a digital world, that is, unless he has either acetates or proper master tapes he doesn't seem to be interested in cleaning up old bootleg recordings or second, third and so on generation digital files of the studio sessions like he did with the concert video for the LZ DVD.

There was a thread about tolerating stealing but it seems pinching Jimmy's tapes and then seeing them turn up on bootlegs is ok?

Perhaps it's a form of distorted karma for all those allegations and out of court settlements!?.

Speculating about what will or won't be on the next discs is ok and should be treated lightheartedly but like what has transpired before, it'll turn into a wish list and some will be setting themselves up for even more disappointment if their wishes are unfulfilled, while others will just vent their spleen and carry on like tools.

I have been fortunate enough to hear all the "alternate" mixes and companion tracks but only digitally on my computer and not via CD's or Vinyl (which is like comparing a Cessna to a Jumbo in terms of sound quality), due to technical difficulties.

I would hope for some new or unreleased tracks on the remaining discs but Jimmy can only release what he has left in the vaults.

For me the remaining discs are the most likely to hold surprises.

PG could have the "missing" songs STS and LIS and being a double album it is conceivable that there could be different mixes of all the songs on it. Just because some were written and recorded years before they were released means nothing.

In the past songs were held back then released as the albums required and I see nothing to suggest that strategy will change.

Thanks to the scumbags who stole them from him in the first place and unless there are some hidden gems relating to those auction tapes being returned to Jimmy, there may not be much left to put out, but, it'll be better than nothing at all.

I suspect that there are some on here who would prefer that (put nothing at all out) option and then complain about it anyway.

Carry on.

Peace.

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Whinge, whinge, fucking whinge!

Talk about casting pearls before swine...

It was inevitable that some would be disappointed with the releases and III is the best of the bunch IMO, so far.

Obviously these releases are aimed at the casual or at best, moderate listeners.

Not hard core Zepheads.

Right or wrong Jimmy is probably going with the assumtion that hard core people would most likely have everything that was either stolen and / or bootlegged in their possession.

Jimmy is analogue in a digital world, that is, unless he has either acetates or proper master tapes he doesn't seem to be interested in cleaning up old bootleg recordings or second, third and so on generation digital files of the studio sessions like he did with the concert video for the LZ DVD.

There was a thread about tolerating stealing but it seems pinching Jimmy's tapes and then seeing them turn up on bootlegs is ok?

Perhaps it's a form of distorted karma for all those allegations and out of court settlements!?.

Speculating about what will or won't be on the next discs is ok and should be treated lightheartedly but like what has transpired before, it'll turn into a wish list and some will be setting themselves up for even more disappointment if their wishes are unfulfilled, while others will just vent their spleen and carry on like tools.

I have been fortunate enough to hear all the "alternate" mixes and companion tracks but only digitally on my computer and not via CD's or Vinyl (which is like comparing a Cessna to a Jumbo in terms of sound quality), due to technical difficulties.

I would hope for some new or unreleased tracks on the remaining discs but Jimmy can only release what he has left in the vaults.

For me the remaining discs are the most likely to hold surprises.

PG could have the "missing" songs STS and LIS and being a double album it is conceivable that there could be different mixes of all the songs on it. Just because some were written and recorded years before they were released means nothing.

In the past songs were held back then released as the albums required and I see nothing to suggest that strategy will change.

Thanks to the scumbags who stole them from him in the first place and unless there are some hidden gems relating to those auction tapes being returned to Jimmy, there may not be much left to put out, but, it'll be better than nothing at all.

I suspect that there are some on here who would prefer that (put nothing at all out) option and then complain about it anyway.

Carry on.

Peace.

Calm down.

We are not swine and tools because we are less than thrilled with slightly different mixes being marketed as an ultimate Zep collection and we have every right to our opinions.

I would consider a complete Earls Court or Knebworth box set something of a gem for fans but these releases have been less than mind blowing.

The point I was making earlier is that I've heard stuff on bootlegs that have been far more interesting to listen to than these releases. I wasn't getting into a commentary on comparing quality and the history of what was stolen and Page has access to now. Just a simple observation.

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I have to agree on the above sentiments I am happy for the people that enjoy the companion discs but people who are expecting big surprises and treats on any of the remaining ones are probably going to be disappointed ...why so negative? Fooled me once shame on u Fooled me 5 times so far shame on me for continuing with anything but single versions and even they dont sound much better from o8 mini lp sleeve box especially on 4 and HOTH...unless u have REALLy fine equipment. So Much live stuff untouched....(I have to believe the entire concerts from 2nd disc of dvd set exist...in jimmy's hands....)

Edited by ksgemini

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I thought it was pretty clear from the get-go that these releases were about Zep's studio work....It was strictly an update of the officially released studio catalog. We were given an extra companion disc, but that's not what the releases are about. No matter your opinion of the content, the thing that cracks me up is the people who won't buy the extra companion disc when it's costing them 2-3 bucks....as a long-time fan, that is sadly hilarious to me. Everything on the companion discs are high quality audio....in some cases, even better than the official releases. The companion discs may not be what you want, but please don't tell me they aren't worth your money to purchase them. You are paying peanuts !

I have all the outtake boots, and there's very little there that is releasable quality. Most of it (not all) sounds like it was recorded on a cheap cassette deck. Be thankful you have the boots, because not one of the remaining 3 Zep members would ever authorize that stuff to be officially released in that form.

The 69' Paris show lowers the bar for future two track live releases. We'll see them eventually...or maybe our kids will.

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they are not worth 2-3 dollars a piece to me...I have other expenses 30 bucks saved is thirty bucks. As far as I know bootlegs still equals stealing as they are not legal and actually am surprised how often they are discussed on here. illegal, immoral and unethical.

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The remastered studio recordings sound fantastic! I'm enjoying the extras because I understood that they are just that, "extras", not the main point of the remastering. If you don't like the extra material Jimmy has made it so you can buy just the remasters.

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No matter your opinion of the content, the thing that cracks me up is the people who won't buy the extra companion disc when it's costing them 2-3 bucks....as a long-time fan, that is sadly hilarious to me. Everything on the companion discs are high quality audio....in some cases, even better than the official releases. The companion discs may not be what you want, but please don't tell me they aren't worth your money to purchase them. You are paying peanuts !

2 or 3 bucks?

Barnes and Noble owes me a refund because they charged me 15.99 for each release.

Oh you meant just the companion disc. Well since they don't sell those individually the cost is NOT 2 or 3 bucks.

And no I'm not interested in buying another "remastered" original disc. They have done played that card too many times.

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With or without orchestral strings and brass?

Same version, just no vocals. I remember Plant saying he sang the lyrics in parts, so I'm pretty sure they would have just the music stand alone. I don't want that personally, it just seems to be the way the other releases have gone thus far.

Edited by Walter

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I thought it was pretty clear from the get-go that these releases were about Zep's studio work....It was strictly an update of the officially released studio catalog. We were given an extra companion disc, but that's not what the releases are about. No matter your opinion of the content, the thing that cracks me up is the people who won't buy the extra companion disc when it's costing them 2-3 bucks....as a long-time fan, that is sadly hilarious to me. Everything on the companion discs are high quality audio....in some cases, even better than the official releases. The companion discs may not be what you want, but please don't tell me they aren't worth your money to purchase them. You are paying peanuts !

I have all the outtake boots, and there's very little there that is releasable quality. Most of it (not all) sounds like it was recorded on a cheap cassette deck. Be thankful you have the boots, because not one of the remaining 3 Zep members would ever authorize that stuff to be officially released in that form.

The 69' Paris show lowers the bar for future two track live releases. We'll see them eventually...or maybe our kids will.

:goodpost:

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I'm betting on a music only Kashmir on PG.

That's a given a 100% certainty.

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I disagree that the companion audio is aimed at the casual listener.

My wife casually listens to Zeppelin, and her reaction to black dog outtake was that it sounds the same as the main version minus a guitar solo. She didn't Really notice the new plant noises thrown in and the slightly different balancing. It took me and my decades of listening to point them out. Even then she didn't really care that much, and will stick to the main albums.

The companion disks are a nice bonus to a great remastering but the last two seem to be falling short of enthusiasts lofty hopes (part based on the pre release info and hype) and I doubt casual listeners even bother with them that much.

The exciting thing for me is if keys to the highway remained in the can and completely unknown to anyone for all these years, has anything else been unearthed?

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I disagree that the companion audio is aimed at the casual listener.

My wife casually listens to Zeppelin, and her reaction to black dog outtake was that it sounds the same as the main version minus a guitar solo. She didn't Really notice the new plant noises thrown in and the slightly different balancing. It took me and my decades of listening to point them out. Even then she didn't really care that much, and will stick to the main albums.

The companion disks are a nice bonus to a great remastering but the last two seem to be falling short of enthusiasts lofty hopes (part based on the pre release info and hype) and I doubt casual listeners even bother with them that much.

The exciting thing for me is if keys to the highway remained in the can and completely unknown to anyone for all these years, has anything else been unearthed?

:goodpost:

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With physical graffiti, im thinkin of that version of wanton song, that was leaked by eddie kramer, whenever that was. That was a rawer sound than the record sounds like. So like the other albums, 2 through houses, a tinge more live studio sound and more raw...which considering phys graff, could be very cool.

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On IV we had Going to California without lyrics - so do you think we'll get Bron-Yr-Aur with lyrics for PG????

That ain't going to happen!

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2 or 3 bucks?

Barnes and Noble owes me a refund because they charged me 15.99 for each release.

Oh you meant just the companion disc. Well since they don't sell those individually the cost is NOT 2 or 3 bucks.

And no I'm not interested in buying another "remastered" original disc. They have done played that card too many times.

Then don't.. It's that simple. Nobody is forcing you.

The last remastering job / overhaul was over 20 years ago.. (1993)

I agree with Bong-man that an extra 2-3 dollars for a bonus disc is a pretty good deal.

But if you already have the '93 remasters and are all set .. great!

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Agree. The remastering in these new ones is superb. Since the start I've been most looking forward to physical graffiti and oddly ITTOD, which is by far my least favourite album. I guess I'm keen to hear what a good remastering will do.

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I a m really looking forward to the next three releases. Really looking forward to a good re master on ITTOD.On the companion disc will the vocals be up on Carouslambra and will we get that extended ending to All of my Love.Also are we going to get a six panel fold out of all six covers,a paper bag and inner sleeve we can colour in.Seriously I have been really pleased with the reissues so far.

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