Jump to content
Slate Blackcurrant Watermelon Strawberry Orange Banana Apple Emerald Chocolate Marble
Slate Blackcurrant Watermelon Strawberry Orange Banana Apple Emerald Chocolate Marble
Sign in to follow this  
osoz

Did Led Zeppelin make the right decision to break up?

Recommended Posts

9 hours ago, IpMan said:

I have never heard anything along those lines. Zep touring in 91' or any other time post 80' I never heard. Even after the O2 gig when expectations were high Plant nixed that pretty much ASAP. Where did you hear this?

Robert nixed that waaaay before the O2. I heard him say he wouldn't work with 'those guys' again - full stop - the July before the gig. He may have been cagey about it in public, but his mind was very firmly made up. It was a one-off for Ahmet, and after that the door was shut for good.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Mithril46 said:

Could be Mike Bordin, sorry bad with names. Many Zep books nowadays mention that Robert pulled out of a Zep

World tour(not with Jason) literally at the last minutr in 90' or 91'. Much of the details of the tour supposedly were

already done, Robert agreed at first. Probably would have gone very well, Jimmy was in excellent playing shape.

In the end however it was IMO the right move, Robert didn't want the legacy tarnished. P/P in 95' couldn't really

be called a reunion because no Jonesy and the vast reworkings of ? 10-12 Zep songs. Robert grew wary in 98'

despite Page's spectacular return to amazing playing. Robert saw that the set list kept dropping WIC songs, and the

show was becoming basically Zep without Jonesy or Bonzo. So he quit with some tour dates remaining. Don't blame him.

Mike Bordin also filled in for Bill Ward for some of the Sabbath Reunion dates.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well there you go, excellent, versatile drummer. But there are still a few who may think you could get a "50%" Bonzo. No,

not even 25%. Michael Lee was damn good, and Jason as well in 07'. It would be as drastic as having the rhythm section

of the Jimi Hendrix Experience getting in some excellent guitarist after Jimi's death. The Experience also had some of

the ESP thing Zep had, although they jammed practically twice as much as Zep live. But Zep, The Experience, after

the "main ingredient(s)" gone, were like a 500 jigsaw puzzle piece picture missing 135 pieces, an impossible fix. Of course

The Band of Gypsys' as well, etc.,.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I keep thinking about the '98 tour and while jimmy was playing great, the audience was lining up for the bathroom and beer refills while they played their Clarksdale material. The cd didn't sell all that well either. Combination of disinterest from the newer generation of fans and material that just didn't live up to expectations. How could it? Touring on greatest hits from years gone past can't be something that would have befitted Zeppelin. Thanks to Robert for seeing that and resisting the money and ego kick. The last great song Jimmy wrote was Achilles and that was in '76. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah. The spectacular gold-plated musical legacy of Zeppelin stands shining with only very minor tarnish. For true

touring 98' was a fine place to full stop, with Robert and Jimmy in very powerful form. Although I do not like much

of Robert's output since Fate of Nations, I salute him for stopping ongoing Zep when he did. Not many have mentioned

that there could never be any firm grasp as to whether Jimmy could continue playing like he did in 98', I'm sure Robert

realized that as well as his weariness of a Zep nostalgia show, regardless of continued vitality.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have no doubt Jimmy would have continued in excellent form had Robert kept the machine going. However it still would have ended, at least for a good year or more in late 2000 when he suffered back problems and had to stop touring (Black Crowes)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well all I can say is that Jimmy must have practiced a lot before the 98' tour. Going back to P/P 95'-96' , there were probably 25% great shows almost no flaws, 25% very good to excellent shows, the rest good but some erratic spots.

Again, Jimmy MUST have seriously upped his practicing even from 95'-96'. I've never seen or heard anything from 98'

that wasn't at least excellent. For me even going from 73' to 75' live Zep Jimmy had started tapering off a bit, so not

sure bout' maintaining the consistency and excellence of 98' for years later. Hard to judge the Crowes thing because

at some points there were 4 guitarists on stage, although Jimmy passed with flying colors recreating Zep studio style.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 04/05/2015 at 7:16 PM, les57paul said:

Gabrielle, It has been stated by all three members that it wasn't the album "led zep" would make.

Yet it was the album "led zep"  made. As for Jimmy and Bonzo stating that the next album would be what Led Zeppelin was all about. I'd take it with a pinch of salt. Bonzo never stated anything. It comes from a quote from Jimmy that was made about twenty years later.

Edited by babysquid

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well Bonzo never said anything, but actually when did he ever say much. I believe Jimmy's talk with Bonzo, despite

some rather considerable fibbing by Jimmy in many matters. Everyone knows Jimmy because of drugs/alcohol etc.,,

was a minor player in ITTOD. Still excellent guitar playing, some amazing solos, but little songwriting/composing.

Jimmy served one master: heroin. Remaining in his blitz state, he would restore Zep to it's true hard rock legacy.

HA HA HA. I suppose Jimmy also thought the Euro 80' trek was their most powerful tour ever.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎4‎/‎1‎/‎2017 at 2:25 PM, Mithril46 said:

Well there you go, excellent, versatile drummer. But there are still a few who may think you could get a "50%" Bonzo. No,

not even 25%. Michael Lee was damn good, and Jason as well in 07'. It would be as drastic as having the rhythm section

of the Jimi Hendrix Experience getting in some excellent guitarist after Jimi's death. The Experience also had some of

the ESP thing Zep had, although they jammed practically twice as much as Zep live. But Zep, The Experience, after

the "main ingredient(s)" gone, were like a 500 jigsaw puzzle piece picture missing 135 pieces, an impossible fix. Of course

The Band of Gypsys' as well, etc.,.

That may be true live, but Jimi's last album (or what he thought would be his last album) "The First Rays Of the New Rising Sun" represented the most mature songwriting of his career, IMO. I have no idea how it would have translated live. Some of the tunes, of course, were played live, but the dang audience wanted Foxy Lady and for Jimi to hump his amps. I get the sense that Jimi may have gone several years without touring to get rid of any notion of him being an outlandish stage performer ever again. Them days were done as far as he was concerned.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎4‎/‎1‎/‎2017 at 3:42 PM, zooma said:

I keep thinking about the '98 tour and while jimmy was playing great, the audience was lining up for the bathroom and beer refills while they played their Clarksdale material. The cd didn't sell all that well either. Combination of disinterest from the newer generation of fans and material that just didn't live up to expectations. How could it? Touring on greatest hits from years gone past can't be something that would have befitted Zeppelin. Thanks to Robert for seeing that and resisting the money and ego kick. The last great song Jimmy wrote was Achilles and that was in '76. 

Clarksdale was better than some of the LZ albums, IMO. I still listen to it once per week. I went to two or three concerts after that, and I haven't gone to a big time concert since. It absolutely pissed me off when fans would head for the beer stands when they started an unbelievable song like "When The World Was Young." I felt they were disrespectful. I sat there looking at those meatheads and said to myself, "Do you realize what you folks are doing to the real fans. You're going to deprive us of ever seeing Jimmy and Robert playing electric music ever again. Because Robert has zero tolerance for nostalgia." And sure enough, it happened. O2 and that's it. It had NOTHING to do with the quality of the album. It's outstanding. Both Robert and Jimmy still like it. As good as "Physical Graffiti"? Of course not. But worthy of the attention span of people who were only there to hear "Stairway" even though real Zep fans knew it would never be played.

I hate to sound negative, but I no longer go see rock concerts with older performers due to the way Robert and Page's new material was treated on the Clarksdale tour. I figured why should I? Just about every quality older artist is going to be treated just the same way. The place is going to be half filled with people talking on smartphones and who just want to be there because they can say they were there,

Edited by ThreeSticks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^ I caught one show on the WIC tour (Boston) and didn't see this at all. Not saying you didn't. The audience went bananas for everything they did. Boston crowds can get pretty crazy though. 

To me, the Clarksdale material sounded much better live than the album. I didn't enjoy the album at all and still don't.  Sounded flat to me.

One problem I've had with Jimmy's post Zeppelin collaborations... He's one of the best producers of the last 50 years  ... and he had to share the role with Coverdale, Plant and Rodgers.  In one way I get it. In another way it was ill advised. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I do think it was the right time. Would there have been a push and pull between the band members, (checks and balances) or would Robert have tried to dominate in lieu of a solo career?

I would hate to think Zeppelin would merely be Robert's backing band.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A couple of things I have read here and there (no sources as I don't takes notes of everything I read on the off chance I may have to quote it.)

Robert has stated that he and Jimmy were musical collaborators, and never personal friends outside of the band, as they had nothing in common. True or not, I don't know. When you're in the middle of something you just see what you can see. When you have a later outside perspective you can be more rational and unemotional. Maybe a bit of the 'old girlfriend / boyfriend' syndrome. It has it's appeal to return to, but you're still going back to the same problems.

Jason has copped a lot of flack. His response was that his father was his teacher, so naturally a student will have traits of that teacher, and still his own way of playing. If he mirrored his dad he was just a copy, if he played differently he was criticized for not playing like his father. He couldn't win either way. Poor bastard was never accepted for being himself. That kind of pressure can stop you sleeping at night. A great drummer, just a different type of drummer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I find it hard to believe Jimmy and Robert were never friends. The accounts of the stays at Bron-Yr-Aur, and the pictures

from the Headley Grange sessions look like rather happy affairs. However as time went on with the drugs and unease

with the management's mafia like behavior, I really think Robert maybe thought Jimmy had no problem with all

this madness. And Robert wanted more control, as well.

As far as Jason he did very well in 07', but I've never heard him play close to any Zep boot where his father sounds like

some ancient Roman battle is being simulated. I never would expect that, but it is what it is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/31/2017 at 3:44 PM, Mithril46 said:

Some know this, some don't. When Zep was inches away from a worldwide tour in ( 91' ?) almost positive Plant wanted

Scott Gorham from Faith No More as drummer. Plant actually said at one point of Jason( around that time) "He's not that

good". Gorham was no Bonzo but was a first rate very versatile drummer. Not trying to knock Jason, but at that

almost reunion tour , judging a bit from the Outrider tour with Jimmy, Jason occasionally played near his father's

level, but overall maybe just above average at most. He also may have been a liability due to the drug/ alcohol

problems he had. Possible spelling mistake, Gorham, or Gorman ??

Steve Gorman?  He's the Black Crowes drummer. Faith No More guy is Mike Bordin. Both good drummers.  Agreed about Jason. There are nights on Outrider that are painful to watch. Other nights are brilliant. 1991 sounds right - I remember the rumors about Bordin being the guy they had chosen. Seriously? that guy?  Too metal, I thought. Robert had misjudged the American market throughout the 1980s, and he must have been jolted that the Zep CD catalog was outselling his solo stuff. They had so much product out there, the new comp package, and everything else, why not go out and introduce yourself to the Gen Xers buying the stuff?  For a moment, Robert was swayed. But only for a moment. Instead he began doing Zep covers with his band.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/6/2017 at 11:11 PM, Dane1968 said:

Jason has copped a lot of flack. His response was that his father was his teacher, so naturally a student will have traits of that teacher, and still his own way of playing. If he mirrored his dad he was just a copy, if he played differently he was criticized for not playing like his father. He couldn't win either way. Poor bastard was never accepted for being himself. 

I have a different opinion. The success and critical acclaim of The Disregard of Timekeeping (1989) and subsequent tour proved beyond any doubt Jason Bonham is/was fully accepted by the public as a fine drummer in his own right. It's Jason who has chosen to lean heavily on his connection to Led Zeppelin, and his father in particular, through the years. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, SteveAJones said:

I have a different opinion. The success and critical acclaim of The Disregard of Timekeeping (1989) and subsequent tour proved beyond any doubt Jason Bonham is/was fully accepted by the public as a fine drummer in his own right. It's Jason who has chosen to lean heavily on his connection to Led Zeppelin, and his father in particular, through the years. 

What do you think of his whole JB Led Zep tour he's been doing?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎4‎/‎8‎/‎2017 at 7:34 AM, Mercurious said:

Steve Gorman?  He's the Black Crowes drummer. Faith No More guy is Mike Bordin. Both good drummers.  Agreed about Jason. There are nights on Outrider that are painful to watch. Other nights are brilliant. 1991 sounds right - I remember the rumors about Bordin being the guy they had chosen. Seriously? that guy?  Too metal, I thought. Robert had misjudged the American market throughout the 1980s, and he must have been jolted that the Zep CD catalog was outselling his solo stuff. They had so much product out there, the new comp package, and everything else, why not go out and introduce yourself to the Gen Xers buying the stuff?  For a moment, Robert was swayed. But only for a moment. Instead he began doing Zep covers with his band.

It would've been cool if they picked Bill Ward, I remember reading once that at an awards show or something, I can't remember now and I've tried googling it up, that Plant said if they ever regrouped, Ward would be the guy to fill Bonham's shoes, the only guy that would be able to do it, something to that effect.

Maybe some of the experts on here could help me?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, BledZabbath said:

It would've been cool if they picked Bill Ward, I remember reading once that at an awards show or something, I can't remember now and I've tried googling it up, that Plant said if they ever regrouped, Ward would be the guy to fill Bonham's shoes, the only guy that would be able to do it, something to that effect.

Maybe some of the experts on here could help me?

I remember clearly an episode of "That Metal Show" where Ward (he was the guest) said that he liked Page on a personal level (not just as a guitar player) and that the one person he had not played with in his life who he really wanted to before the end was Jimmy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, tenyearsgone21 said:

What do you think of his whole JB Led Zep tour he's been doing?

I freely admit I was initially quite skeptical, and I felt that "masking" the identities of his band mates until the eleventh hour was a bit silly (although I understood it). That said, I came to accept everything/everyone at face value as a unique, limited engagement tribute to John Bonham. However, what was originally billed as and intended to last for no more than 35 to 40 dates is now well into it's seventh year of production. On the positive side, JBLZE is still worth every penny of one's entertainment dollar. However, on the negative side, as I said, I would have preferred Jason Bonham become the cornerstone of a new band (not Black Country Communion) performing original material.        

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, SteveAJones said:

I freely admit I was initially quite skeptical, and I felt that "masking" the identities of his band mates until the eleventh hour was a bit silly (although I understood it). That said, I came to accept everything/everyone at face value as a unique, limited engagement tribute to John Bonham. However, what was originally billed as and intended to last for no more than 35 to 40 dates is now well into it's seventh year of production. On the positive side, JBLZE is still worth every penny of one's entertainment dollar. However, on the negative side, as I said, I would have preferred Jason Bonham become the cornerstone of a new band (not Black Country Communion) performing original material.        

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I would agree with you, particularly about him doing his own material. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I knew the guitarist in Jason's current project, and I must say in the main band he played with before the Zeppelinitis,

he really had some interesting originals. Some had some Zep, Hendrix, and Sabbath influence, but a good number

of songs actually were pretty creative. The guitarist liked U2, believe it or not , and there was one original which

incorporated some U2 elements. Now, the guitarist's first name starts with T, right ?? Only asking because I don't

understand that "unmasking" business. The guitarist I speak of has actually played with Jason since 97' in some

other Zep only project.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The mention of Jason Bonham with a full fledged "reunion" is a slap in the face to John Bonham.  His kid has become a quality drummer, I'll give him that.  He is not within a country mile of his great father!  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...