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osoz

So who ripped-off the mighty Led Zep?

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Wow I didn't expect this thread to get so heated, perhaps the use of ripped off in the title was provocative but I meant it very tongue in cheek. All artists borrow and copy. No doubt some of the lawsuits settled out of court have led to people laughing all the way to the bank because nobody figured out where the disgruntled artist 'borrowed' it from in the first place.

I'm totally with Justfred though on one point, Led Zep often took pieces of music and made a lot more out of them, better arrangements, riffs to die for, better production and thus they became epics.

Add this to the undisputed original material they produced, well I don't think their achievements are tainted at all. It is simply that they got so successful that it makes them easy targets and I think most fans recognize that. Timing played a part too, with the rise of the litigious society in the '80s playing a big part. A typical example being Whole Lotta Love, listening to the the Small Faces version it is a much more blatant rip-off of the Muddy Waters "You Need Love" written by Willie Dixon, yet they never got sued over it, despite crediting it to themselves (Lane/Marriott).

I've yet to hear anything on this thread though that does anything but make me want to go listen to the Led Zep version and cleanse my ears!

Not to say liking Led Zep hasn't led me on a path of discovering just what the band were listening to, adds to the fascination of it all, or that this thread hasn't introduced me to some new bands I probably wouldn't have listened to before.

Edited by osoz

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Do you really believe that Willie Dixon came up with all of those songs . he was the biggest crook of them all . Alvin lee even stated that his father who worked in studios would hear old blues man saying Willie just had the Money to put his name on those songs our grandfathers would all play on the porch. . Look if you think Led Zeppelin didnt bring those songs from obscurity to the masses then thats your problem . Raytuned your a bullshiter because you talk like a tough guy on the internet .The ultimate coward move.

Edited by Justfred

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Here you go! It is pretty ridiculous and somewhat embarrassing seeing this now and how dated it looks! I'm sure Robert regrets it with the exception of the paycheck involved with it!

Excuse me, while i bleach my eyes. Oy! Wish someone would bring that up in a modern interview with Plant, i'd love to see a reaction. I'm going to go ahead and be glad i wasn't around to see the 80s.

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I think an angle in this debate is missing.When I got into the mighty Zep in my early teens in the early 70s my fatherRIP ,a jazz/blues man,said these guys are ripping off the old blues men.He played me some of the old blues fellas tracks I didn't like it,just when Clapton raved about Robert Johnson,went out and bought it,didn't get it.Of course I like all of this stuff now,but as far as i was concerned the bludgeoning power riffs and delicate acoustic stuff not to mention the better production was streets ahead of these old blues guys.Same with jeff becks 'Truth,an album I just can,t dig it.The amazing sonic quality,musicianship and arrangements of everything Zep did makes me feel that Zep put their own stamp on it.Same goes for to days wannabees,you just can't replicate that feel,time and production today.

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I think an angle in this debate is missing.When I got into the mighty Zep in my early teens in the early 70s my fatherRIP ,a jazz/blues man,said these guys are ripping off the old blues men.

Did your father make the same complaint about (just to name a few) The Rolling Stones, Cream and -especially- Bob Dylan? "Ripping off" the old bluesmen/folkies wasn't exactly something Led Zeppelin were solely responsible for...

the better production was streets ahead of these old blues guys.

Of course it was- Robert Johnson was recorded in a friggin' hotel room fer chrissakes! Yet those twenty something songs he cut in 1936/37 reached a lot of musicians...when King Of The Delta Blues Singers was released in the early sixties it was a revelation (that's how Clapton, Page, Keith Richards etc first heard Johnson). I'm sure if Robert Johnson had been around thirty years later with the advent of multi track recording he would have been a force to be reckoned with.

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Did your father make the same complaint about (just to name a few) The Rolling Stones, Cream and -especially- Bob Dylan? "Ripping off" the old bluesmen/folkies wasn't exactly something Led Zeppelin were solely responsible for...

Of course it was- Robert Johnson was recorded in a friggin' hotel room fer chrissakes! Yet those twenty something songs he cut in 1936/37 reached a lot of musicians...when King Of The Delta Blues Singers was released in the early sixties it was a revelation (that's how Clapton, Page, Keith Richards etc first heard Johnson). I'm sure if Robert Johnson had been around thirty years later with the advent of multi track recording he would have been a force to be reckoned with.

My father disliked most rock music because it was loud and hated drummers that bashed the heck out of their drums.However he would listen to bands that would get jazzy like Focus(he loved) and ELP(he loved Tarkus)or different (Osabisa).Of course I knew that the old blues records were primitively recorded (Robert Johnson direct to disc single take,no overdubs)but I was after all things noisy and flash like Whole Lotta Love,not some old guy on an out of tune acoustic mumbling away,but I was a teenager then.For awhile I didn't get the second side of Zep 3.Immigrant Song and Out on the Tiles was more my thing.Nowadays Johnson,Wolf,Dixon,Waters,etc get as much air time as other stuff and I do 'get'what Clapton was on about.Still not that keen on Beck's Truth.

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Poor old Robert Johnson the guy might have had an out of tune acoustic and trouble keeping time but he had the blues at the time and hell hounds on his trail.

The majority of the songs had two takes, there are CDs around with both the takes recorded. First thing that strikes me is each take is quite different which ties in with what has been said about Jimmy Page, it was using the song for feel and expression rather than an attempt to make a perfect replica each time. The more one thinks of it the more one sees 'sloppy' in this sense as necessary and acceptable, rather than precision and identical replication each time. There are several RJ recordings where the mood of the song on each take is really quite different, yet they were recorded within minutes of each other.

Totally get where you are coming from grasbo, I'm sure there are a lot of us here who would now listen to Robert Johnson and others (I particularly like the booming voice of Blind Willie Johnson) because we see the relevance now, but back in the day it wouldn't have been of interest or accessible in terms of listening, whilst Led Zeppelin certainly was.

Edited by osoz

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.Still not that keen on Beck's Truth.

Truth is alright (though even more "derivative" than the first couple of Zeppelin albums) but Beckola is a much better executed album from the original Jeff Beck Group...although in my not so humble opinion, as great as Beck is, the best thing about the first Jeff Beck Group is that it essentially introduced Ron Wood and Rod Stewart to the world...

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I have nearly all Becks albums but he is just not my cup of tea.I actually like Wired the best but he just leaves me cold.I did like parts of live at Ronnie Scotts.

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Truth is alright (though even more "derivative" than the first couple of Zeppelin albums) but Beckola is a much better executed album from the original Jeff Beck Group...although in my not so humble opinion, as great as Beck is, the best thing about the first Jeff Beck Group is that it essentially introduced Ron Wood and Rod Stewart to the world...

I was into Page and Beck about the same time and I bought TRUTH because of the description on the back promising the rudest sounds you'll ever hear a guitar make and the cover of You Shook Me.

I found You Shook Me to be boring when compared to Zeppelin's version.

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I found You Shook Me to be boring when compared to Zeppelin's version.

I found the whole Truth album rather boring truth be told (no pun intended)...the whole thing seems so contrived. I think I've still got my old LP here, but what sticks out most in my mind is the fake crowd cheering they tacked onto "Blues Deluxe" :lol:

Beck may have intimated that Page stole the Beck Group's whole shtick for Led Zeppelin, but I disagree...Jimmy took what Beck & co were doing and improved on it a thousandfold...

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https://soundcloud.com/mount-carmel/05-hear-me-callin

Im not sure how to embed the track but heres a link ^ to a song that has led zeppelin written all over it.

the intro: bring it on home

3:09: the ending to how many more times

3:25: you shook me

4:16: moby dick

8:06: medly from royal albert hall (at 1:47)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ytp7IUDfk1Q

8:30 the lemon song solo

9:16 how many more times

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https://soundcloud.com/mount-carmel/05-hear-me-callin

Im not sure how to embed the track but heres a link ^ to a song that has led zeppelin written all over it.

the intro: bring it on home

3:09: the ending to how many more times

3:25: you shook me

4:16: moby dick

8:06: medly from royal albert hall (at 1:47)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ytp7IUDfk1Q

8:30 the lemon song solo

9:16 how many more times

Yep, that was chock full of 'em!

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Forget about comparing "Truth" to Zep I. As mentioned the production on I is revolutionary, it is not an exaggeration, It changed the way

Rock and even other genres were recorded. Neither Truth nor Beckola are notable for their sound/ production. And Beck is amazing on

those first two albums (and thru his entire career) but he and Stewart have a very heavy R&B and Soul influence. This is cool but unlike

Zep They never really get up to the feverish sustained hard rock on Zep I. I find it odd that critics/fans can say that Page used Truth as a

template for Zep. Also as mentioned many of the ancient blues greats deserve all their praise and more, but like 90% of Zep's supposed

blues rip offs come from mainly from Plant quoting lines a bit too close here and there, not from the band arrangements. Page actually

talked about this. And everybody ripped off Zep....Page's power chording, the dozens of Plant imitators, the

onstage interaction between Page and Plant, and very unsuccessfully Bonham's drumming.

Edited by Mithril46

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https://soundcloud.com/mount-carmel/05-hear-me-callin

Im not sure how to embed the track but heres a link ^ to a song that has led zeppelin written all over it.

the intro: bring it on home

3:09: the ending to how many more times

3:25: you shook me

4:16: moby dick

8:06: medly from royal albert hall (at 1:47)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ytp7IUDfk1Q

8:30 the lemon song solo

9:16 how many more times

It sounds great, regardless if they ripped off Zeppelin or not.

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It sounds great, regardless if they ripped off Zeppelin or not.

yeah, they are a great band. I saw them live about five years ago. definitely one of the best live performing bands I have seen.

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You can see Jimmy Page's influence on both Joe Perry's and Slash's stage personas. The long black hair that often obscures the face. Check. The low slung guitar. Check.

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Do you reckon these dudes had a good time or a bad time writing the intro?

It's even called "SIXTY EIGHT" :bubble:

definitely. you can tell the drummer is trying to muster up his best bonzo impression too.

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