So is Jimmy Page a 'sloppy' player?

[The Dark Lord]

27 minutes ago, nirvana said:

I recommend watching "It Might Get Loud" for a reference to Jimmy's later virtuosity on the guitar. See how relaxed and easily Jimmy plays the epic chords that he created over 40 years prior.

Jack White and the Edge are awe struck with such Grace and power right before their eyes.

Never count Jimmy Page down and out.

I have that video, and I never counted Jimmy out. I too was awe struck when I met Jimmy, but not sure what that has to do with anything. 

Edited January 17, 2016 by The Dark Lord

[KellyGirl]

2 hours ago, Patrycja said:

 The roles may have been different, but Jonesy's contribution was critical to Zep's sound and soar. 

 

Yeah I agree with the bolded above. ^^ Nope I'm not trying to diminish his role within the band at all.  
There were 4 guys and every part was equally important in Zep's finishing product.

I just think if Jones played the guitar for a night instead of the bass, there would be mistakes..  at least
the kind of mistakes that wouldn't go unnoticed and the whole "Jonesy never screws up" would no longer
 be true.  Nuthin' deep.

I wasn't trying to imply that Jones is a roadie whose roll is gopher who gets the band coffee while Jimmy's role 
in Led Zeppelin was GOD on stage and most important.  At least I hope my post didn't come out that way.
 Sorry if it read that way.
 







 



 

Edited January 17, 2016 by KellyGirl

[Mithril46]

Many people don't realize that unless an aging guitarist directly gets arthritis or some related unfortunate malady,

continued practice will reduce almost all "ability" loss to insignificant. Carlos Santana is 68, I can't hear any decline.

Pat Martino is a guitarist well known in jazz circles, he is 68 and uses strings almost twice as thick as Jimmy's, he'll blow your

head off. Allan Holdsworth is a totally innovative fusion guitarist whose playing  requires monster technique, he can

still do it at I believe 68. All at 68. Of course, everyone of these players have played daily for decades. There actually are

certain instruments that become much harder to play as you age, but guitar is not one of them.

 

 

 

[rm2551]

Jimmy Page is a sloppy guitarist so far as is anyone who is either too stoned, or out of practice. Otherwise he is a sublime communicator. A genius artist. In my opinion, for clearly communicating a certain complex feeling so succinctly, - unmatched. Even some of the more basic pub rock numbers like Custard Pie, How Many More Times, the riffs were enhanced by an incredibly detailed and deep feeling conveyed through how the track was structured, how the solo's and fills were laid on, the production and so on. ALL Jimmy. And yeah, I realise the irony of HMMT being a cover, but what he made it - how he adapted it to convey a certain feel/emotion. So powerful.

Back to actual playing, when he is not too stoned, results can be magical. Take Trampled from Frankfurt - 30 June, 1980.

That is clear proof that when not too "out there" (but considerably further out there than most would be comfortable with - by the sound of it) he could absolutely nail it. And when you listen to that, it seems to me he was definitely waaaay out there. But delivered what he was trying to deliver PERFECTLY.

At times he was too far out there and seemed to be striving for emotion and complexity that just could not be channelled through his fingers in that state. Or the place he found himself did not actually translate to good rock. But he always went for it and mostly unlocked new ideas to be further refined if not nail it on the spot.

So - "is Jimmy a sloppy player?"

As a direct question - that is not correct. He could be. If he did not explore his mind as much, and as deeply, he may have been a much more precise player for a lot longer, but would he have gifted us what he did?

NO.

It's all part of the magic. That man's journey is a gift to us all. A fucking GIFT. Long after we depart the young and restless will be discovering Led Zeppelin like they are the first to really hear it. Because it speaks.

Sloppy? nup.

At least, that's how I see it.

[heavybluesfan]

8 hours ago, The Dark Lord said:

Jimmy is wonderful, but even as fans, we should be able to acknowledge that his playing suffered tremendously at times, for whatever reason, and although a great writer, arranger, producer, and technician, it has been many, many years since Jimmy kept company with the truly technically proficient players...I will say that I think Jimmy played really well, all things considered, at the O2, and in 1998 he was actually quite remarkable. He has the capability, but Jimmy was never really about being a master of his instrument. He was more a rock and roller, lifestyle and all, with a broad skill set. Some might call him a jack of all trades. It's hard to be all things to all people, but Jimmy's body of work is amazing. Is he a virtuoso? Nope, never has been. He was good at times and bad at others, but he still wrote some of the greatest tunes of our times (or took credit for them). I will certainly give Jimmy credit for his studio playing where unlimited takes were at his disposal; he really excelled in that environment. I still love the guy, but despite my best efforts to brainwash myself, I can't deny the issues that Jimmy has had over the years, and which have quite rightly impacted on his reputation as a player. 

A thoughtful and generally impartial post, a lot of which I agree with. Yes, it's often not easy to be objective when it comes to our heroes, as some here, including yourself, have acknowledged. I do discern, though, something of a shift amongst some of these people in recent days, particularly with regard to 02 and 1998, from citing these as examples of Jimmy back to near, or even better than, his early 1970s level but, when presented with evidence that clearly illustrates the contrary, to then inadvertently acknowledge this by listing a myriad of reasons, from health issues to age, for Jimmy's decline. This, of course, completely misses the point. For whatever reason, however valid, Jimmy is not as good as he was. For what it's worth, I believe Jimmy had a reasonable stab at things in 1998, but was no more than moderate, even considering other factors, at the 02.

It has indeed been many years since Jimmy has been as technically proficient as the elites, but I actually think he could have been a virtuoso on the instrument if he'd practised more and taken fewer drugs, but of course these are ifs, buts and maybes, and that is not how Jimmy was/is. For instance, the segment I mentioned in my previous post from TSRTS Dazed And Confused is pretty much perfection in my opinion, great technical proficiency but with enough looseness and spontaneity to emote in spades, and far, far better than the technically perfect but clinical and sterile guitarists who have already been mentioned (if anyone wants me to analyse its brilliance I'd be more than happy to do so but I suspect it would bore everyone even more than Jimmy's 02SIBLY solo bores me),

PS - hope you liked my 02TSRTS comparison you requested

 

19 hours ago, IpMan said:

Very few people can maintain manual dexterity to such a degree over such a period even in excellent health. But hey, Jimmy slowing down his solos' in 2007 for a one-off must mean he can no longer cut the mustard on any professional musical level. Poor 63 year old Jimmy just can't live up to the expectations of some people who believe, like a machine or android, he should be able to negotiate the fretboard like a 28 year old. Then there is the possibility of a physical ailment as well. Not sure if most non-medically trained people are aware but if you break a bone, it will most likely become arthritic with age. To my knowledge, Jimmy has broken at least two fingers on his left hand during three separate occasions. Even minor breaks or fractures of such delicate bones can cause serious localized arthritic condition and thus affect dexterity. However this is all speculation, Jimmy may have arthritis, he may not. What Jimmy is however is a 72 year old man who must live within the limitations of his age.

As Kelly said, if we are to critique Jimmy's playing it must be within a limited time period to be fair. 

My criticism of Jimmy has nothing to do with him slowing his solos for 02. Quite the opposite. A slow solo, evocatively played with sufficient technical proficiency to achieve its aim, is often the best of all (as I previously said, think David Gilmour). The problem is Jimmy achieved neither of these at 02. His solos were invariably far too simplistic and error strewn, and I used SIBLY as an example to illustrate this in my previous post.

Again, as I've already said, the last thing I want is to watch someone robotically play a technically perfect but clinical and sterile solo. The ideal for me is a certain looseness and spontaneity to give it heart and feeling but with enough technique to do it justice - that's why the segment in TSRTS Dazed And Confused I highlighted in my previous post always does it for me, time after time.

As others have said, and as I've concurred, I accept it is often very difficult to be impartial where your heroes are concerned. The problem is this can so easily lead to poor judgement. In the meantime I would still welcome your thoughts on the 02SIBLY solo, especially the slow part, which I highlighted in my previous post. For instance, do you find it evocative and moving, or do you think it is too simplistic and error strewn to achieve this? Look forward to reading your comments.

PS -  No need to tell me you've played for years so you must know what you're talking about. I think I've got the message now

 

 

[Patrycja]

11 hours ago, KellyGirl said:

Yeah I agree with the bolded above. ^^ Nope I'm not trying to diminish his role within the band at all.  
There were 4 guys and every part was equally important in Zep's finishing product.

I just think if Jones played the guitar for a night instead of the bass, there would be mistakes..  at least
the kind of mistakes that wouldn't go unnoticed and the whole "Jonesy never screws up" would no longer
 be true.  Nuthin' deep.

I wasn't trying to imply that Jones is a roadie whose roll is gopher who gets the band coffee while Jimmy's role 
in Led Zeppelin was GOD on stage and most important.  At least I hope my post didn't come out that way.
 Sorry if it read that way.
 







 



 

There's no need to apologize. I didn't think you meant to disparage anyone's contribution to the band; yes, they all had equal input to Zep's unparalleled greatness. But your point about Jonesy taking up Jimmy's guitar for the night is another side-step from the main issue (after all, if Jimmy had to pick up Jonesy's bass or piano, for instance, we wouldn't expect as much either). It's not about perfection, but about ongoing maintenance of an artist's craft. Mithril's post above on this page addresses that directly. So far, we've had age, injuries, drug use, 'unfair' comparisons, being busy with other projects, playing another musician's instrument, being so 'in the moment' and exploring sonic expressions, overall contribution to music as reasons why Jimmy's playing is not what he has shown capable of. It's not either/or. Yes, all of these may be contributing factors, but simply put, practicing and playing regularly is as well. I don't know why it's so hard for fans to acknowledge that, even if we don't know the reasons behind it.

Edited January 17, 2016 by Patrycja

[The Dark Lord]

Heavybluesfan, yes, I enjoyed the O2 vs '98 comparison, although it was disappointing to see the deficiencies spelled out in plain view. It's been a while since I watched TSRTS, but I did watch the DAC video you posted, and in that era Page was amazing, and as good as anyone. How do you think Page stacks up against Iommi, for instance? I have my thoughts on this, but am more interested to hear yours. 

 

And I want to be clear, despite Page's issues, he was hard to beat in the studio. If all we had were the studio albums, and especially Presence, it would be hard not to think that the man walked on water, with the odd exception. 

Edited January 17, 2016 by The Dark Lord

[IpMan]

1 hour ago, heavybluesfan said:

A thoughtful and generally impartial post, a lot of which I agree with. Yes, it's often not easy to be objective when it comes to our heroes, as some here, including yourself, have acknowledged. I do discern, though, something of a shift amongst some of these people in recent days, particularly with regard to 02 and 1998, from citing these as examples of Jimmy back to near, or even better than, his early 1970s level but, when presented with evidence that clearly illustrates the contrary, to then inadvertently acknowledge this by listing a myriad of reasons, from health issues to age, for Jimmy's decline. This, of course, completely misses the point. For whatever reason, however valid, Jimmy is not as good as he was. For what it's worth, I believe Jimmy had a reasonable stab at things in 1998, but was no more than moderate, even considering other factors, at the 02.

It has indeed been many years since Jimmy has been as technically proficient as the elites, but I actually think he could have been a virtuoso on the instrument if he'd practised more and taken fewer drugs, but of course these are ifs, buts and maybes, and that is not how Jimmy was/is. For instance, the segment I mentioned in my previous post from TSRTS Dazed And Confused is pretty much perfection in my opinion, great technical proficiency but with enough looseness and spontaneity to emote in spades, and far, far better than the technically perfect but clinical and sterile guitarists who have already been mentioned (if anyone wants me to analyse its brilliance I'd be more than happy to do so but I suspect it would bore everyone even more than Jimmy's 02SIBLY solo bores me),

PS - hope you liked my 02TSRTS comparison you requested

 

My criticism of Jimmy has nothing to do with him slowing his solos for 02. Quite the opposite. A slow solo, evocatively played with sufficient technical proficiency to achieve its aim, is often the best of all (as I previously said, think David Gilmour). The problem is Jimmy achieved neither of these at 02. His solos were invariably far too simplistic and error strewn, and I used SIBLY as an example to illustrate this in my previous post.

Again, as I've already said, the last thing I want is to watch someone robotically play a technically perfect but clinical and sterile solo. The ideal for me is a certain looseness and spontaneity to give it heart and feeling but with enough technique to do it justice - that's why the segment in TSRTS Dazed And Confused I highlighted in my previous post always does it for me, time after time.

As others have said, and as I've concurred, I accept it is often very difficult to be impartial where your heroes are concerned. The problem is this can so easily lead to poor judgement. In the meantime I would still welcome your thoughts on the 02SIBLY solo, especially the slow part, which I highlighted in my previous post. For instance, do you find it evocative and moving, or do you think it is too simplistic and error strewn to achieve this? Look forward to reading your comments.

PS -  No need to tell me you've played for years so you must know what you're talking about. I think I've got the message now

 

 

Personally, I did enjoy his soloing on SIBLY at the O2 show and felt his solos did indeed have emotion and gravity, I also feel the solo was not overly simplistic nor as error filled as you believe but again, that is my opinion. Also, I never even said anything, until you commented on another post, about his O2 performance. My timeframe of which I was referring to was 84' - 2000 and 1998 in particular. I still stand by my opinion that Jimmy in 98' was just as good as Jimmy was in 73', the only difference being his speed in soloing, which, IMO, he more than made up for in both cleaner more accurate playing, and emotional quality and projection.

Please give it a rest in regard to my history with guitar, I only mentioned it once and as I said in that post and follow up posts it was only to give perspective, not  to present as expert on the matter. It seems strange you keep bringing this up, especially in light of my prior explanations.

[heavybluesfan]

1 hour ago, The Dark Lord said:

Heavybluesfan, yes, I enjoyed the O2 vs '98 comparison, although it was disappointing to see the deficiencies spelled out in plain view. It's been a while since I watched TSRTS, but I did watch the DAC video you posted, and in that era Page was amazing, and as good as anyone. How do you think Page stacks up against Iommi, for instance? I have my thoughts on this, but am more interested to hear yours. 

 

And I want to be clear, despite Page's issues, he was hard to beat in the studio. If all we had were the studio albums, and especially Presence, it would be hard not to think that the man walked on water, with the odd exception. 

I was never a huge Sabbath fan but if a guy had an injury to use as an excuse it was Iommi. I was amazed what he could do with various parts of various fingers missing and he always sounded pretty good to me, fingers or no fingers. I'm sure you're much better informed about him than I am though so I'm not really in a position to make a judgement.

PS - And IpMan - thanks for the reply

 

Edited January 17, 2016 by heavybluesfan

[nirvana]

Keep in mind that any Jimmy solos from the TSRTS Film have been edited and doctored to sound cohesive.

I saw Jimmy with the Firm, Outrider tour, and w Plant on both tours and he always sounded great and his presence was unmatched and magical.

[heavybluesfan]

1 hour ago, nirvana said:

Keep in mind that any Jimmy solos from the TSRTS Film have been edited and doctored to sound cohesive.

That's certainly true about the movie but, regarding the DAC segment I was talking about, there's not a huge difference until you get to around 5:20 in the link I posted compared with my 40 year old vinyl album, when they've bolted on a completely unrelated part in the movie. There's also an error on the album that's been cleaned up on the DAC movie link I posted (around 5:07) and which I think was also present on the older version of the movie. I remember Jimmy saying at the time of its release that he'd made the decision to keep the album as honest as possible and not to clean it up. Apart from that though that segment I mentioned seems pretty good to these ears.

I'm sure you're absolutely right about Jimmy's presence on the occasions you saw him.

 

Edited January 17, 2016 by heavybluesfan

[nirvana]

I agree the album version is pretty Damn good!

Jimmy's loss of control Was never more evident than the Live Aid concert.

He took a guitar that was totally out of tune and proceeded to play sloppy and unrehearsed in front of a world wide audience of adoring fans. Unbelievable.

A Jimmy Page of earlier and healthier days would have never even approached a concert of that magnitude without rehearsals and well tuned guitars.

Live Aid and the Atlantic anniversary concerts were Jimmy at his most careless.

[soccer5]

The Levee did Break at this performance, that's why They would not release their performance. I agree Jimmy would have never got on stage in that condition when he was healthy, i do feel he did it for the issue at hand, the magnitude of the event,(which gives the question why get up there like he was), and he was itching to get back with Robert, as they did have rehearsels planned with Tony Thompson on Drum's but as we know it didn't work-out.

[RIP-IT-UP]

Heartbreaker at 1988 reunion:  I've said this before, but talk about poor judgement. The whole world is watching the '88 reunion, so why even attempt to play the solo in HB? it's arguably the most technical of all Page's solos. So why try it in front of millions of people who are judging your performance (which will be captured forever on video). It clearly wasn't practiced; He was probably drunk too. And it was pathetic. Meanwhile, since it was 1st performed in 1969, the entire bar for "rock guitarists" had risen dramatically from 1969-1988.  Even the original pieced together studio version is nowadays often cited as an example of Page's sloppiness.  So why even attempt to play it live in 1988 , when you have 50+ other less demanding songs to pick from?  Even JPJ could have played a better solo in HB that day! 

[IpMan]

2 hours ago, RIP-IT-UP said:

Heartbreaker at 1988 reunion:  I've said this before, but talk about poor judgement. The whole world is watching the '88 reunion, so why even attempt to play the solo in HB? it's arguably the most technical of all Page's solos. So why try it in front of millions of people who are judging your performance (which will be captured forever on video). It clearly wasn't practiced; He was probably drunk too. And it was pathetic. Meanwhile, since it was 1st performed in 1969, the entire bar for "rock guitarists" had risen dramatically from 1969-1988.  Even the original pieced together studio version is nowadays often cited as an example of Page's sloppiness.  So why even attempt to play it live in 1988 , when you have 50+ other less demanding songs to pick from?  Even JPJ could have played a better solo in HB that day! 

Yes, that was pretty poor judgement on Page's part, a total embarrassment and obvious lack of any respect whatsoever for the fans.

[StringBender]

On January 16, 2016 at 5:05 PM, Patrycja said:

It's just how do you explain 75 year old Vladimir Horowitz playing the monumental Rach 3 better than his 20 year old self?

It's real simple Pat. Age will diminish ones ability plain and simple. Are there exceptions? Sure. But the exception doesn't make the rule. As far as Horowitz goes I'm familiar with the quote (as it appears in nearly every musicianship book I've read) and there is no doubt he lived an extremely disciplined life and took care of himself and his craft. As opposed to the lifestyle of Page and so many others. Now throw in the age factor and as I said, you simply, cannot compare a 40 year timespan as related to ones abilities. 

 

Did you watch Michael Jordan when he came out of retirement the second time? Enough said...

 

 

[Patrycja]

31 minutes ago, StringBender said:

It's real simple Pat. Age will diminish ones ability plain and simple. Are there exceptions? Sure. But the exception doesn't make the rule. As far as Horowitz goes I'm familiar with the quote (as it appears in nearly every musicianship book I've read) and there is no doubt he lived an extremely disciplined life and took care of himself and his craft. As opposed to the lifestyle of Page and so many others. Now throw in the age factor and as I said, you simply, cannot compare a 40 year timespan as related to ones abilities. 

 

Did you watch Michael Jordan when he came out of retirement the second time? Enough said...

 

 

At the risk of glazing people's eyes over for repeating this point, I posted Volodya and Jonesy as examples of musicians for whom age isn't that much of an issue because they practice regularly, not necessarily religiously. Perhaps I should have made a more comprehensive list (I can still do it if people have a hankering for it), for it is extensive and indicates that it is not, in fact, unusual for musicians Jimmy's age and older to continue playing at a very high level. Mithril's post above on this page lists some performers as well. Put another way, even though age is a factor, it is larger if one does not practice. It just seems fans run to 'age' first, when there are comparables that mitigate its impact.

I don't think that the MJ example is an apples-to-apples one, though. Generalizing about age in sports versus music does not effectively make the point because they have very different set of specific variables. 

The point is about being prepared, and by Jimmy's own admission, it doesn't sound like he has spent a lot of consistent time actually playing the guitar and it sometimes it showed more than others. It's a shame, really, because he's one of the most intriguing composers and players out there.

[KellyGirl]

I was tempted to come into this thread guns-a-blazin' at first and do a post pointing out my
disagreements on a number things regarding Jimmy's decline in playing - but no I'm not about
telling somebody what they should or should not enjoy when it comes to music. 

All this talk about Jimmy's live playing through out his career and lack of practicing brings up the 
burning question: Why has he stopped playing guitar publically altogether? It nags at me because
it's a rather simple question, yet we don't have the answer to it. To my knowledge he's never
announced he was retiring from performing, he also hasn't come forward saying his hands, fingers
or wrists are terribly arthritic making it too much of a challenge to play properly. He hasn't lost his
love of music or passion for playing guitar am I right!?!?  So why has he disappeared from the stage?
It's rather strange considering he says quite often he wants to be seen and heard. Maybe what he wants
and what he's capable of are two separate things. Jimmy does not owe me an explanation to any of my
badgering questions.... but at the same time I  wish he did. 

I saw some tweets with Jonesy in Mexico jamming. It made me a bit sad thinking how cool it would be to
see Jimmy playing somewhere live..

 

[The Dark Lord]

36 minutes ago, KellyGirl said:

I was tempted to come into this thread guns-a-blazin' at first and do a post pointing out my
disagreements on a number things regarding Jimmy's decline in playing - but no I'm not about
telling somebody what they should or should not enjoy when it comes to music. 

All this talk about Jimmy's live playing through out his career and lack of practicing brings up the 
burning question: Why has he stopped playing guitar publically altogether? It nags at me because
it's a rather simple question, yet we don't have the answer to it. To my knowledge he's never
announced he was retiring from performing, he also hasn't come forward saying his hands, fingers
or wrists are terribly arthritic making it too much of a challenge to play properly. He hasn't lost his
love of music or passion for playing guitar am I right!?!?  So why has he disappeared from the stage?
It's rather strange considering he says quite often he wants to be seen and heard. Maybe what he wants
and what he's capable of are two separate things. Jimmy does not owe me an explanation to any of my
badgering questions.... but at the same time I  wish he did. 

I saw some tweets with Jonesy in Mexico jamming. It made me a bit sad thinking how cool it would be to
see Jimmy playing somewhere live..

 

You got one thing wrong: Jimmy has lost his passion for playing guitar, almost entirely. He still loves music, but he is more than content to live his life, collect records, dabble with Zeppelin releases, and be the steward of Zeppelin's legacy. All of this is perfectly okay, but as always, Jimmy feels it necessary to keep his options open, and be less than truthful about a future endeavour, which he knows will likely never get off the ground. It's a fool's errand to wait on Jimmy's next solo project.

Edited January 18, 2016 by The Dark Lord

[reswati]

1 hour ago, The Dark Lord said:

You got one thing wrong: Jimmy has lost his passion for playing guitar, almost entirely. He still loves music, but he is more than content to live his life, collect records, dabble with Zeppelin releases, and be the steward of Zeppelin's legacy. All of this is perfectly okay, but as always, Jimmy feels it necessary to keep his options open, and be less than truthful about a future endeavour, which he knows will likely never get off the ground. It's a fool's errand to wait on Jimmy's next solo project.

It's okay with me, let him enjoy what he has...................and leave the rest open to the next generation to carry on the Zep legacy.

[The Dark Lord]

8 minutes ago, reswati said:

It's okay with me, let him enjoy what he has...................and leave the rest open to the next generation to carry on the Zep legacy.

Totally agree. I just wish he could be a little more dignified, and honest about his career. 

[Guest WD52]

I think this discussion got a bit mired in comparing Page from the 70's with the single O2 show. His playing in 77 was a bit hit and miss, with a terrible guitar tone for soloing, and most of the 79/80 live stuff-solo wise-is extremely average, and sometimes woeful. As I posted before-in the studio, with multiple retakes and patching etc Page was great. As a songwriter/arranger, great. As a live lead guitarist after about 1975? No, far too erratic.  As, presumably, live collectors, we are in the odd position of being able to 'average' Page out over a tour or run of dates-I do wonder at the performance of some single shows what rating people would have been given Page from the audience as they filed home after, if that was the only time they saw or heard him play live. To be fair to Page, how many guitarists would look good to fans scrutiny if they all had umpteen undoctored live bootlegs to listen to? (well Blackmore wouldn't mind as I've got loads of 69-73 Purple and 75-76 Rainbow and he is always on top of things!).

[IpMan]

10 hours ago, WD52 said:

I think this discussion got a bit mired in comparing Page from the 70's with the single O2 show. His playing in 77 was a bit hit and miss, with a terrible guitar tone for soloing, and most of the 79/80 live stuff-solo wise-is extremely average, and sometimes woeful. As I posted before-in the studio, with multiple retakes and patching etc Page was great. As a songwriter/arranger, great. As a live lead guitarist after about 1975? No, far too erratic.  As, presumably, live collectors, we are in the odd position of being able to 'average' Page out over a tour or run of dates-I do wonder at the performance of some single shows what rating people would have been given Page from the audience as they filed home after, if that was the only time they saw or heard him play live. To be fair to Page, how many guitarists would look good to fans scrutiny if they all had umpteen undoctored live bootlegs to listen to? (well Blackmore wouldn't mind as I've got loads of 69-73 Purple and 75-76 Rainbow and he is always on top of things!).

The thing about playing live from the perspective of the audience is, unless there are some serious sound issues, a combination of volume and ambience will mask a good 90% of mistakes the audience hears if the show is played in a large hall or stadium. This is why you can see a band in concert on a particular night, come home and think how awesome and amazing the show was, then, hear a boot of the same show and go WTF??? 

As I said before, I saw Zeppelin on April 10th, 1977 in Chicago and was blown away. In that hall Jimmy sounded blazing, an inspired performance of which I do not recall any glaring mistakes from any member of the band. However, I have never heard a boot of this show. I know there is a very poor quality boot out there but if a really good boot ever comes out I may have a WTF moment as well.

[KellyGirl]

13 hours ago, The Dark Lord said:

You got one thing wrong: Jimmy has lost his passion for playing guitar, almost entirely.

I agree with what you're saying but...Really? You believe somebody like Jimmy who spent more time
with a guitar in his hand than anything else would lose his desire to  play for an audience? How does
that even happen. I suppose it does, but I always thought Jimmy wouldn't stop performing completely
unless he was forced to. (physically unable)

I guess it comes across my mind periodically only because he says in interviews he wants to been seen
playing. For all I know that could mean be seen in front of the bathroom mirror.

I should let be known that I am completely supportive of Jimmy just strolling around with his little grey
pony tail and sunglasses and enjoying 'retirement. I only brought the subject up because I see his peers
still on stage, and I often wonder if Jimmy wishes he too was up there - not necessarily with them but
somewhere on a stage. I  take it if he wanted to be he would.

I will say this though, over the last 15 years the lack of public playing hasn't diminished his or Zeps popularity.
With Zep's music and Jimmy remastering the catalogue, he's  garnered a lot of new fans.

[The Dark Lord]

11 minutes ago, KellyGirl said:

I agree with what you're saying but...Really? You believe somebody like Jimmy who spent more time
with a guitar in his hand than anything else would lose his desire to  play for an audience? How does
that even happen. I suppose it does, but I always thought Jimmy wouldn't stop performing completely
unless he was forced to. (physically unable)

Yes, that is what I believe, and everybody should believe it. There has been absolutely nothing preventing Jimmy from being active for the past 17 years, except a lack of desire. Isn't the proof, as born out in his past decade and then some, enough to make it obvious, to even the most optimistic of fans? Anybody can believe what they want, but I'm certainly not going to waste any more energy on waiting for Jimmy "to be seen playing again". I am happy if he is happy. Everyone is entitled to retire, and I only wish he would be more honest with his fans. 

Edited January 18, 2016 by The Dark Lord