New book on Earls Court concerts 'Five Glorious Nights'

[indigomoonbeam]

Oh good grief. This is the very definition of 'First World problem'.

[Mithril46]

I say if they further release a special gold-plated front and back cover super deluxe edition they can circumvent the exclusive 200 edition

issue. Remember, GOLD changes everything !!!

[andrew r]

Oh good grief. This is the very definition of 'First World problem'.

As is having the time to post on a board concerning a 35 year old defunct

rock band! Wanted an opinion on the legality and morality of advertising the item at only 50

and when you find they sold quickly, magically producing another 50. When does limited

stop being limited?For the record Is this thread any more "first world" than" which number print did you get?"

for instance

[JTM]

As is having the time to post on a board concerning a 35 year old defunct

rock band! Wanted an opinion on the legality and morality of advertising the item at only 50

and when you find they sold quickly, magically producing another 50. When does limited

stop being limited?For the record Is this thread any more "first world" than" which number print did you get?"

for instance.

There is no illegality in the publisher increasing the numbers on a limited edition, questioning the publishers morality is laughable. You don't like it, then try and sue..You'll lose.

As for contractual liability, there is none.

[Mothership Drummer]

As is having the time to post on a board concerning a 35 year old defunct

rock band! Wanted an opinion on the legality and morality of advertising the item at only 50

and when you find they sold quickly, magically producing another 50. When does limited

stop being limited?For the record Is this thread any more "first world" than" which number print did you get?"

for instance

Fucking BRAVO! God forbid you ask a simple question on here or dare I say share an opinion that doesn't sit well with the "elders" and wannabes of this exalted fucking site. Like John, Robert, or Jimmy even read it. Thank God they don't because if I were them (and before you flame, I KNOW I'm not "them". Check and make sure you know who YOU are before said flaming) I would be embarrassed to have some of these people as fans. And I thought Rush fans were complete c*nts. Every time I come back, I realize why I leave again. Think I'll just stick to the music and DVDs. "Fans"? Not so much.

[andrew r]

There is no illegality in the publisher increasing the numbers on a limited edition, questioning the publishers morality is laughable. You don't like it, then try and sue..You'll lose.

As for contractual liability, there is none.

Not interested in suing as for publishers morality was an existential question rather

than an actual question requiring a fixed and final response. Iam somewhat disappointed

in the general tone of the answers.It may be a somewhat pointless question but as i said

the whole forum is in it's broadest sense is pointless as Led Zeppelin no longer exist.

[Mothership Drummer]

Personally, I think it was good question, Andrew. Yeah. Much better than "what number print did you get" or "Where was Jimmy at this very moment on this very date 40 years ago". Talk about disappointed. I suggest you never go to a Zep convention.

[Strider]

[dazedjeffy]

Funny you should say that, because...

I hear there's an O2 book in the pipeline.......

[Walter]

The irony of the latest posts in this thread is unreal....

Btw, andrew r, I do agree with you. I collect items, outside of Zeppelin, that are supposed to be limited. However, that appears to be a totally subjective term once the limits are surpassed. I've since given up on the idea I am going to be one of....(enter the number here)....and have come to the realization that it is limitless as long as the demand dictates. I do still enjoy my collections and do not look at them as investments in the least.

[LIVIN]

Have been informed that the publishers Rufus Stone have decided to arbitrarily increase

the 50 special deluxe copies of the book Five glorious nights Led Zeppelin at Earls Court, from 50 to 100! Due to demand! So if there is enough demand at what point does it stop being a limited edition? In my opinion very questionable behaviour,is it even legal? They have broken their contract with the 50 people who ordered

on the understanding that only 50 copies were available worldwide. your thoughts and opinions

would be welcome

My thought:

Limited is different than exclusive. They could raise the copies to 10 million, and if the demand was for a billion, then you could still say it was limited.

Who cares? 50 more isn't going to affect the value much anyway.

[andrew r]

Once again it's not the value its the whole "get in quick give us your money upfront

there are only 50" then a week later buried in one of their sneak preview emails,

BTW" we have decided to raise the ltd to 100 copies because of demand". I don't approve

of this, old fashioned as it maybe and demanded my money back. For me a matter of principle

but judging by the responses here i am literally a man out of time.

[Walter]

If it's on principle alone, you are most certainly "out of time". These days it's all about maximizing profits, at all costs. I guess you really have to look within for the reason you are purchasing it in the first place!

[Strider]

The irony of the latest posts in this thread is unreal....

You said it, bro'.

Once again it's not the value its the whole "get in quick give us your money upfront

there are only 50" then a week later buried in one of their sneak preview emails,

BTW" we have decided to raise the ltd to 100 copies because of demand". I don't approve

of this, old fashioned as it maybe and demanded my money back. For me a matter of principle

but judging by the responses here i am literally a man out of time.

Don't know what you were expecting but since you seem to be surprised by the reaction, I will try to explain it to you.

Many of us here were shut out of the O2 ticket lottery, no matter how many entries we entered. Or we didn't win the chance to go to Jimmy's Physical Graffiti Listening Party. Or we weren't one of the ones who got the signed limited edition of Jimmy's soundtracks. Or any number of contests that have occurred over the years.

But YOU actually won one. You were one of the lucky 50 recipients of Dave's book...it will be numbered from 1 to 50. So what if they added another 50...those #1 thru 50 will still be more desirable.

But now you're demanding your money back over some triviality?!? That makes me question the motive you had for getting the book in the first place. Sounds like you wanted the book so you could flip it for profit on Ebay, rather than having it because you're a fan.

It's like if someone won tickets to the O2 reunion concert and then bitched and refused the tickets because they weren't front row.

That is what I meant by my "First World problem" remark. I never said you couldn't ask the question...only that it seemed trite and ungrateful. How many other people would have liked to be in your place and been one of the first 50 toget Dave Lewis' book?

As for the "What number print did you get?" question, there is actually a very valid reason behind that question. Some people pre-ordered their sets, some bought on or after the day of release. Some ordered their sets on Amazon, some bought them at record shops. Plus, geographically we are all over the globe.

When people post their numbers it makes it possible for us to see if there's a pattern. Did the people who pre-ordered get a lower number than those who bought at a shop? Is there a geographical pattern...did some countries receive more numbers than others?

[andrew r]

You said it, bro'.

Don't know what you were expecting but since you seem to be surprised by the reaction, I will try to explain it to you.

Many of us here were shut out of the O2 ticket lottery, no matter how many entries we entered. Or we didn't win the chance to go to Jimmy's Physical Graffiti Listening Party. Or we weren't one of the ones who got the signed limited edition of Jimmy's soundtracks. Or any number of contests that have occurred over the years.

But YOU actually won one. You were one of the lucky 50 recipients of Dave's book...it will be numbered from 1 to 50. So what if they added another 50...those #1 thru 50 will still be more desirable.

But now you're demanding your money back over some triviality?!? That makes me question the motive you had for getting the book in the first place. Sounds like you wanted the book so you could flip it for profit on Ebay, rather than having it because you're a fan.

It's like if someone won tickets to the O2 reunion concert and then bitched and refused the tickets because they weren't front row.

That is what I meant by my "First World problem" remark. I never said you couldn't ask the question...only that it seemed trite and ungrateful. How many other people would have liked to be in your place and been one of the first 50 toget Dave Lewis' book?

As for the "What number print did you get?" question, there is actually a very valid reason behind that question. Some people pre-ordered their sets, some bought on or after the day of release. Some ordered their sets on Amazon, some bought them at record shops. Plus, geographically we are all over the globe.

When people post their numbers it makes it possible for us to see if there's a pattern. Did the people who pre-ordered get a lower number than those who bought at a shop? Is there a geographical pattern...did some countries receive more numbers than others?

All you had to do to be one of the 50 was be first in line with the money. No luck no special treatment .Was not going to flip

always buy the best i can afford. As there were only going to be 50 it seemed good value at nearly double the price of the standard copy. I am asking for my money back because they took my money under one set of rules then changed it arbitrarily to suit themselves and to increase profits .They could have at least emailed the 50 in advance informing them what they intended to do.

As i have informed the publishers of my decision before publication someone else will benefit from my copy, maybe you?

Lastly i also entered the signed soundtracks lottery didn't get selected there were only 109 .What would this forum be saying if

Jimmy's site decided to increase it to 209 copies.I can imagine how delighted the original 109 people who spent their hard earned cash/got in line early would be!

[JTM]

All you had to do to be one of the 50 was be first in line with the money. No luck no special treatment .Was not going to flip

always buy the best i can afford. As there were only going to be 50 it seemed good value at nearly double the price of the standard copy. I am asking for my money back because they took my money under one set of rules then changed it arbitrarily to suit themselves and to increase profits .They could have at least emailed the 50 in advance informing them what they intended to do.

As i have informed the publishers of my decision before publication someone else will benefit from my copy, maybe you?

Lastly i also entered the signed soundtracks lottery didn't get selected there were only 109 .What would this forum be saying if

Jimmy's site decided to increase it to 209 copies.I can imagine how delighted the original 109 people who spent their hard earned cash/got in line early would be!

I'd love to be in the publishers office right now. Your reason for cancellation has probably given the staff the best laugh they've had in years. No more to add, Strider has said it all.

[andrew r]

I'd love to be in the publishers office right now. Your reason for cancellation has probably given the staff the best laugh they've had in years. No more to add, Strider has said it all.

If they are that unprofessional let them laugh on .As for this thread i was looking for some balanced views

all i got was ridicule . As for the book next time increase it to 500 for the same price there is no problem

these Zep fans, they will pay/put up with anything. That's it i am done!

[woz70]

If they are that unprofessional let them laugh on .As for this thread i was looking for some balanced views

all i got was ridicule . As for the book next time increase it to 500 for the same price there is no problem

these Zep fans, they will pay/put up with anything. That's it i am done!

I'm not really sure I understand this.

So.... you really wanted this special edition book, which is a limited run? I say really wanted, because, let's be frank. it's a LOT of money to spend on a book.

As I understand it there are 1200 standard editions and (now) 100 deluxe versions? Further to that if you signed up for the pre-sale (as I'm assuming you did) you got a not inconsiderable discount on the book?

From reading TBL it appears that Dave Lewis was looking at a total print run of around 1000, but a total figure for the run wasn't confirmed until 17th April. Which is probably the reason for offering a pre-sale - to judge demand, and so that Dave Lewis didn't have to fork out for a run out of his own (probably mostly empty) pocket. Surely if the pre-sale had been poor they may have cut the number in the run - that's economics. You don't want unsold copies of an expensive book hanging around if their sale is actually forming part of your income as it probably is with Dave Lewis.

Given all this you have thrown your toys out of the pram because the deluxe edition has now been confirmed as a run of 100.

Is this still not a limited edition? A total run of 1300 books is very exclusive, at least to my mind.

You were willing to fork out about £200(?) for a book but now there are 50 more of them it is no longer worth it? Not downgrading to the standard, but still limited, edition - you now don't want this book AT ALL.

I think this is what other posters here are having difficulty coming to terms with.

Did you sign a contract with Rufus Stone where they stated exactly and explicitly how many editions would be published?

Remember this is an independently published book, with no affiliation from the members or management of the band - it's a top line fan made effort. Dave Lewis publishes his books pretty much for the love of Led Zeppelin, and the band has pretty much been his life for the last 40 ish years. You go on about profiteering, but have you actually done the sums?

The standard edition (1200 copies) is selling for £130 - so thats £156000

The deluxe edition is £250 (100 copies) - so that's £25000

A total of £181000 - Much of which Rufus Stone will have wanted upfront. Obviously Dave Lewis isn't going to mortgage his house to publish this book, hence the pre-sale.

Increasing the deluxe run from 50 to 100 is not going to significantly decrease the manufacturing costs - you may get a 5% discount for that quantity. So there's hardly any profiteering going on there. Increase from 50 to 5000..... now you might be talking.

Now look at all the photographers who are going to want paying for the rights to use their previously unpublished photos. Ross Halfin isn't going to be doing any giveaways, is he now?

Rufus Stone will have already had their profit margin factored in, and they only seem to be interested in small runs.

I doubt that Dave Lewis will turn a great profit out of this. In fact if you take into account the sheer amount of time he's probably spent on this project he's probably not even breaking even.

I'm not having a go at you, I'm just struggling to understand your reasoning.

[andrew r]

This is a Rufus Stone production my beef is with them.

Dave Lewis is a gent .It is not his book he is being paid to assemble it by

Rufus Stone. Hope that's clear. Moving on

[The Pagemeister]

[Mithril46]

I have to say that this is one of the most preposterous threads I have ever encountered anywhere on the net, though I am not not

better than anyone else. Kudos to you all, and especially to the publishers/crooks !!!!!

[SteveAJones]

Have been informed that the publishers Rufus Stone have decided to arbitrarily increase the 50 special deluxe copies of the book Five glorious nights Led Zeppelin at Earls Court, from 50 to 100! Due to demand! So if there is enough demand at what point does it stop being a limited edition? In my opinion very questionable behaviour,is it even legal? They have broken their contract with the 50 people who ordered on the understanding that only 50 copies were available worldwide. your thoughts and opinions would be welcome

Had not seen this until now. My opinion is during PRE-PRODUCTION I feel so long as the publisher is offering a full refund to those who wish to opt out I don't see a problem. It's a better world with 100 copies of a limited edition Led Zeppelin photo book in print than 50, and the only people who get upset about this are "investors" and "elitists". Once a book goes to press I feel the terms of purchase become binding (no pun intended).

[SteveAJones]

As for the "What number print did you get?" question, there is actually a very valid reason behind that question. Some people pre-ordered their sets, some bought on or after the day of release. Some ordered their sets on Amazon, some bought them at record shops. Plus, geographically we are all over the globe.

Agreed. I placed my order within the first five minutes but the (numbered) remaster sets were shipped out randomly. Was I disappointed. Somewhat, but not to the extent I would demand a refund or post negative public commentary about it. You cannot take it with you so just enjoy whatever good things you do get in life while you can.

[andrew r]

To bring all you naysayers up to date .I received an apology from the publishers

plus a refund .They agreed that advertising an amount and then changing it with out informing

customers first was indeed poor practice.I immediately reordered the lesser version paid for it

and sent an email thanking them for their professionalism.

[SteveAJones]

To bring all you naysayers up to date .I received an apology from the publishers

plus a refund .They agreed that advertising an amount and then changing it with out informing

customers first was indeed poor practice.I immediately reordered the lesser version paid for it

and sent an email thanking them for their professionalism.

Out of curiosity, why would you cancel your original order on account of the production run increasing from 50 to 100?