Presence Reiusse

[tmtomh]

I understand why people think Bonzo is singing on RO, because it sounds like him, but I don't think it is. I think it is Robert and I say this because for all intents and purposes, apart from the sound of the voice, the song is delivered with virtually the identical inflection and intonation of the album version. For this to be Bonzo, he would have had to memorize Robert's vocal, and then make efforts to deliver it in the same way, without really making it his own. I don't see that happening, nor do I see the point of him even trying. I cetainly stand to be corrected, but it seems rather implausible that Bonzo is singing, and that Page got it wrong. Its also implausible that here wouldnt have been some credit heaped on Bonzo for his inauspicious vocal debut.

I listened again today, and I think I finally heard an intonation/word pronunciation I associate with Plant, near the end of the track. So I've moved into the "I think it is indeed Plant" camp.

[Nutrocker]

Well, I said from the get go that Presence was the only one of these remasters I was actually interested in...picked up the 2CDs this weekend (the shop didn't have the vinyl, which didn't really surprise me). I've got the old LP (I think it's an original) and the '94 Marino CD...and for the me the LP still sounds best. This new remaster seemed bassy as hell on my system (it reminded me of some of the 2009 Beatles remasters, with the added low end); Jones and Bonham sounded completely different. I haven't had time to listen to the thing on the old headphones yet but overall I wasn't impressed with the sound of the remastered album. Presence is one of those albums that I'm, like married to (about ten years longer than the actual Mrs Nutrocker ) and the damn thing sounded very different after all these years.

As for the bonus tracks, I enjoyed them. I liked the alternate "For Your Life", with the section they edited out for the album (why?). "10 Ribs And All" I thought was interesting- this was from the Presence sessions? It would have stuck out like a cockroach on a cake on he album, but with some lyrics added it would have been a worthy addition to Coda. I couldn't discern too much of a difference in the "Achilles" and "Hots On..." alternates but why the hell would they put "Royal Orleans" on there with that vocal? I think it could be Bonham singing but it would have been nice if he'd sung it straight...

[JohnnyGuitar]

OK, I just heard "10 Ribs & All/Carrot Pod Pod". My God, it's fucking gorgeous. Thanks for releasing this, guys!

[renounce]

"10 Ribs And All" I thought was interesting- this was from the Presence sessions? It would have stuck out like a cockroach on a cake on he album, but with some lyrics added it would have been a worthy addition to Coda.

Agreed, sounds very unlikely, sounds much more like an ITTOD outtake to me. The whole feel of the track, and Jimmy's playing in particular, sounds so much more akin to Stockholm '78 than Musicland '75.

[Deborah J]

I understand why people think Bonzo is singing on RO, because it sounds like him, but I don't think it is. I think it is Robert and I say this because for all intents and purposes, apart from the sound of the voice, the song is delivered with virtually the identical inflection and intonation of the album version. For this to be Bonzo, he would have had to memorize Robert's vocal, and then make efforts to deliver it in the same way, without really making it his own. I don't see that happening, nor do I see the point of him even trying. I certainly stand to be corrected, but it seems rather implausible that Bonzo is singing, and that Page got it wrong. Its also implausible that there wouldnt have been some credit heaped on Bonzo for his inauspicious vocal debut.

Hi Dark Lord!

I totally understand what you are saying. I have tweaked my sound system every way I can and played this so many times with and without headphones. I am still going with Bonzo on vocals here. Also at the beginning when it starts out with "three four"..that sounds a little like Jimmy. I also certainly stand to be corrected:-) The Booklet does state client as John Bonham and a Dr. John reference is made. If it is not Bonzo I hope Jimmy explains in an interview how they got Roberts voice to sound like this!

[Walter]

You know Deb, after listening again today I'm back with thinking its Bonzo. Too much umph behind the singing to be Robert in a wheel chair. Again, I wished Robert would've done some press for this so the question could be asked to him...

[Deborah J]

You know Deb, after listening again today I'm back with thinking its Bonzo. Too much umph behind the singing to be Robert in a wheel chair. Again, I wished Robert would've done some press for this so the question could be asked to him...

I know Walter! You have to smile because it would be so like them for this to be Bonzo. Honestly, I have been listening to Robert singing for over four decades and I just do not hear him in this. (again, I have no problem being corrected).

[indigomoonbeam]

Royal Orleans can't be Robert, unless Jimmy threw some extreme effects on his vocal. The nasal twang sounds like Jimmy when he was introducing Black Dog on the Over Europe 80 dates, but think his voice is higher in register than the person's vocals used in this Reference Mix. I don't know what Bonzo's "singing" voice is like, but listening to the timbre of Bonzoisms on bootlegs, I think it's Bonzo on this track.

Cheers,

Indi

[The Dark Lord]

I'm going to stick to my guns and say this is Robert, despite my internal fence sitting on the discussion. For me, it seems inconceivable that this track would be released and not be credited with great fanfare to John Bonham. The references to customer John Bonham could be as a reminder that this was the take where Robert was doing his best John Bonham impression. Why would Bonham have listened to Robert's vocal over and over so that he could approximate his melody? It makes no sense. This vocal relies heavily on Robert's vocal melody, and I just cannot believe that Bonzo studied the vocal to this degree in order to perform his own take. Sounds like Bonzo, but I say nah. Remember the first time you heard The Crunge and In the Evening and said, "Who's that?".

On a simply logical basis, it defies reason that Jimmy would keep this under wraps and hidden from the fans in what amounts to a possible last tribute to Bonzo. I'm definitely 51 / 49 on this, based on the sound of the voice.

Does it sound like Bonzo? You bet it does.

By the way, now that all of the albums have been released with companion audio, I would expect Jimmy to compile the previously unreleased tracks onto a single album, so that they can be savoured chronologically on one disc. The perfect Christmas gift, as it were.

Hi to you to Deborah! ^

Edited August 6, 2015 by The Dark Lord

[Sathington Willoughby]

Is it out of the question that Bonzo came up with the original melody for Royal Orleans? I mean he did come up with stuff like Out on the Tiles, the count-in to The Ocean, did solid backing vocals on live Bron-Yr-Stomps, etc.

[Sathington Willoughby]

From Tight But Loose, Issue 39 'Jimmy Page-TBL Exclusive Companion Disc Conversations' by Dave Lewis

Dave Lewis: "The reference mix of Royal Orleans has a very unorthodox vocal. It sounds to me like it's John Paul Jones singing the vocals."
Jimmy Page: "No, it's not."
DL: "Is it John Bonham?"
JP: "No, no, it isn't-it's Robert."
DL: "Oh dear, I got that vastly wrong. I better change what I wrote about that. I was convinced it was Jonesy."
JP: "No"
DL: "It sounds like Dr. John-really gruff and bluesy."
JP: "What, Dr. John Paul Jones? Well it wasn't Dr. John Paul Jones!"
DL: "Oh, right"
JP: "I played it to Robert-and he replied it's his vocals so I am going to take it that it is. It's certainly not JPJ singing. I would certainly say the song and lyrics are definitely relative to our visits to discos and that whole funk thing."
DL: "So to summarise, it's Robert having a bit of a skit with the vocals-he's just decided to change his style."
JP: I must admit when I first heard it I thought it might be John Bonham but it's Robert. That is what is there."

Sathington Willoughby: I personally still think it's Bonzo though.

Edited August 7, 2015 by Sathington Willoughby

[Strider]

From Tight But Loose, Issue 39 'Jimmy Page-TBL Exclusive Companion Disc Conversations' by Dave Lewis

Dave Lewis: "The reference mix of Royal Orleans has a very unorthodox vocal. It sounds to me like it's John Paul Jones singing the vocals."

Jimmy Page: "No, it's not."

DL: "Is it John Bonham?"

JP: "No, no, it isn't-it's Robert."

DL: "Oh dear, I got that vastly wrong. I better change what I wrote about that. I was convinced it was Jonesy."

JP: "No"

DL: "It sounds like Dr. John-really gruff and bluesy."

JP: "What, Dr. John Paul Jones? Well it wasn't Dr. John Paul Jones!"

DL: "Oh, right"

JP: "I played it to Robert-and he replied it's his vocals so I am going to take it that it is. It's certainly not JPJ singing. I would certainly say the song and lyrics are definitely relative to our visits to discos and that whole funk thing."

DL: "So to summarise, it's Robert having a bit of a skit with the vocals-he's just decided to change his style."

JP: I must admit when I first heard it I thought it might be John Bonham but it's Robert. That is what is there."

Sathington Willoughby: I personally still think it's Bonzo though.

Is it me or does Jimmy Page have a tendency to come off as tight and overly self-defensive in interviews? Even this bit, with someone as friendly to the band as Dave Lewis, and Jimmy seemingly can't relax and have a little fun. Unless the written transcript reads markedly different than what the actual interview sounded like?

Because it reads like Jimmy wanted to bite Dave Lewis' head off when Dave asked if it was someone other than Robert Plant doing the vocals on the reference mix of "Royal Orleans".

It still sounds like Bonham to me.

[Sathington Willoughby]

Is it me or does Jimmy Page have a tendency to come off as tight and overly self-defensive in interviews? Even this bit, with someone as friendly to the band as Dave Lewis, and Jimmy seemingly can't relax and have a little fun. Unless the written transcript reads markedly different than what the actual interview sounded like?

Because it reads like Jimmy wanted to bite Dave Lewis' head off when Dave asked if it was someone other than Robert Plant doing the vocals on the reference mix of "Royal Orleans".

It still sounds like Bonham to me.

Absolutely, especially this bit:

Jimmy Page: "No, it's not."

DL: "Is it John Bonham?"

JP: "No, no, it isn't-it's Robert."

DL: "Oh dear, I got that vastly wrong. I better change what I wrote about that. I was convinced it was Jonesy."

JP: "No"

Pretty frosty, lol

[The Dark Lord]

Is it out of the question that Bonzo came up with the original melody for Royal Orleans? I mean he did come up with stuff like Out on the Tiles, the count-in to The Ocean, did solid backing vocals on live Bron-Yr-Stomps, etc.

Well, if Bonzo did come up with the vocal melody, why on earth would Robert spend the time to memorize it and deliver it in the exact same way? He wouldn't. He would make it his own. The more I listen to it the more I don't think it sounds like Bonzo at all, except on a cursory level. It's Robert goofing around, not Bonzo.

[ZoSo925]

There is absolutely no no no no possible way that is Robert singing. So many different clues point that not Robert

[riffsofpage]

laryngitis?

[Badgeholder Still]

Is it me or does Jimmy Page have a tendency to come off as tight and overly self-defensive in interviews? Even this bit, with someone as friendly to the band as Dave Lewis, and Jimmy seemingly can't relax and have a little fun. Unless the written transcript reads markedly different than what the actual interview sounded like?

Because it reads like Jimmy wanted to bite Dave Lewis' head off when Dave asked if it was someone other than Robert Plant doing the vocals on the reference mix of "Royal Orleans".

It still sounds like Bonham to me.

Considering what any serious JP fan understands about the level of seriousness in his attention to detail, this is what would be expected of him. Dave Lewis openly assumed a falsehood as truth, was ready to spread it as a truth and even implied that JP might be somehow mistaken. As the only band member who gives a hoot it about the details of LZ's recorded history it comes as no surprise that JP would nip misinformation in the bud. And he doesn't have much of a history of cracking jokes in interviews. When has he ever joked about Zeppelin? Why would he start now?

[The Rover]

It's Robert, singing in a very unusual style for him. Robert is very versatile, you know.

Edited August 8, 2015 by The Rover

[Bong-Man]

^^

That lion needs a meal !

[The Old Hermit]

Is it me or does Jimmy Page have a tendency to come off as tight and overly self-defensive in interviews? Even this bit, with someone as friendly to the band as Dave Lewis, and Jimmy seemingly can't relax and have a little fun. Unless the written transcript reads markedly different than what the actual interview sounded like?

I've heard it from multiple journos over the years that JP is very different when the tape recorder is off than he is when it's on; in the latter case, they get the tense, evasive, and (sometimes) overly defensive Jimmy, but when the tape recorder is turned off, he immediately lightens up and relaxes and becomes the more open and forward Jimmy, smiling and chatting away... ah, the man of mystery, hiding in shadows and peeking around corners ... YEAH BABY!!!

Edited August 8, 2015 by The Old Hermit

[mstork]

Royal Orleans sounds like Plant impersonating Dr. John, very amusing!

And I'll echo everyone else on 10 Ribs, etc. That is a stunner, one of the reasons I love this band is their ability to surprise you with an "I didn't know they could do THAT" piece of music such as this one. It sounds like something elton John could have done, GOOD Elton John. And I love Page's complimentary acoustic rhythm playing and electric accents. Beautiful stuff.

[appiantiqua]

Maybe it's Jimmy Page singing on RO ... Dave Lewis didn't ask him !

[renounce]

I personally feel Jimmy never got over or forgave the press for the pasting Led Zeppelin 3 received and has held something of a lifelong grudge.

[kirchzep27]

I got to blast presence today, on my house stereo. With this remastering, i think its designed for us to play the zep records even louder than we did before. I am getting no crackling for the highs and no flutter on the lows at 3/4 volume....and my setup now is mismatched, amp to speaker rating. I feel this is a user friendly version of presence in a way, yet very interesting and cool. I think that at moderate volumes, the wider listening audience will get to hear what they were doing and especially jimmy. As with all the albums, i think its got more clarity and seperation, creating a smoother sound. The sharpness and the punchiness are not there anymore, unless you turn the volume up. It is....without a doubt, an amazing display of technology and i am finally happy with compact discs after all these years. Actually, i could see like, john bonham versions of remastered zep cds in say, 50years or whenever. Also, with this new presentation of the recordings, i think it will be very easy for people to distinguish the different brands of rock music....like from the beatles and the rolling stones and the who.

[DSG]

I finally am playing my single disc vinyl remaster of this record right now, and man, oh man. Pagey did a wonderful job on this, it sounds more full of life and throbbing bottom end. Loving For Your Life right now!