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The Magnitude of Kim Fowley's Monstrosity

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Why not the moral outrage at Jimmy Page?

There has been some in the past, but the big difference here is this allegedly occurred without the girl's consent.

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It all makes sense. It helps explain why the band broke up when they were within reach of superstardom, why Jackie left music altogether, why she refused to have anything to do with the biopic and even insisted her "character"s name be changed. She was traumatized and disgusted and wanted to distance herself from everything associated with the experience. I haven't had time to read the whole article yet but I wonder if all the women coming forward about Bill Cosby have empowered her.

Yes, she was inspired by their bravery to finally share her experience.

Careful zooma, your sensitivity is showing. :rolleyes:

If Jackie wanted true justice she should have found a way to take her rapists balls off of him while he was still alive. He wasn't that hard to find. Does she have brothers? A father, cousins? If she does and they didn't act or believe her then the shame belongs to them.

Most of these girls that populated the L.A. scene and were preyed upon came from broken and dysfunctional homes. Jackie Fox herself had to escape a violent stepfather. That's what made them attractive to scum like Kim Fowley. Guys like that don't look for girls that come from a strong family and have a high sense of self-worth. They target girls who have been beaten down by their family, by their peers, by society.

Your inability to understand the nature of empowerment is unfortunately the norm among many men.

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Why not the moral outrage at Jimmy Page?

Now you're just trolling.

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Have you been living under a rock? Barely a month goes by without another highschool gang rape where the girl's "friends" watch and take cellphone videos.

It's the males who take the cellphone videos.

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If Jackie wanted true justice she should have found a way to take her rapists balls off of him while he was still alive. He wasn't that hard to find. Does she have brothers? A father, cousins? If she does and they didn't act or believe her then the shame belongs to them.

This is one of the most idiotic comments I have ever read on this board. So, she should have committed assault or murder, and gone to prison for 25 years, instead of going to Harvard and becoming a lawyer?? There was no evidence to go to the police with after the fact and no credible witnesses because they were all drunk and high and obviously, as we can see, some of them either don't remember or are lying about their presence while Jackie was being raped. Even today it might be difficult to prosecute such a case and in the 70s, forget about it. As for the idea her manly male relatives should have formed a lynch mob, which I think is what you are suggesting, I think you are having great difficulty imagining what it must have been like for a teenage girl who had taken drugs and defied her parents to join a rock band, to go to any authority figure in the 1970s and accuse an adult. If her parents had gone to the police nothing would have happened; they would have said "it's your fault, you lost control of your daughter and she ended up with the wrong people."

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I think the source is always the best place for understanding.

From her Facebook page:

I have been so incredibly moved over the last few days by the outpouring of love and support that has followed the story of my rape on New Year’s Eve 1975.

When I contacted the Huffington Post at the beginning of the year, I never imagined my story would touch such a nerve. I wondered whether anyone would even read it, or if they did, whether they would care. The response took me completely by surprise.

This was not an easy story for me to tell. I had to go over the details of the worst night of my life, not once but repeatedly. The writer of the piece, Jason Cherkis, and the Huffington Post’s fact checker handled the questioning with great sensitivity; but in the wake of the Rolling Stone rape-reporting fiasco and the well-known past disagreements among members of the Runaways, they were leaving nothing to chance. They asked for my SAT scores, my school transcripts, contact info for the lawyer I spoke to last year. My family and I opened our homes and our files, without reservation. We gave Jason a glimpse into some of our most private moments, as well as some of our deepest – though thoroughly underserved -- shame.

Jason spoke to people I hadn’t thought about in years -- people who didn’t like me, as well as those who did. He spoke to every known living person who was there the night of my rape, save one. Jason contacted friends I’d lost touch with after I was raped, friends I’ve missed terribly. I had serious second thoughts about going public several months in. How would disclosure affect my family? How would it change how my friends saw me? Would I be known forever after as “that girl from that band, who got raped”?

I thought I had prepared myself for the haters -- I was wrong. I was shocked by some of the vitriol; more so by the fact that nearly all of it came from other women. *But their voices were drowned by a chorus of support from women I respect and admire – women like Kathy Valentine, Maureen Herman and Jane Wiedlin. And then there are the private messages. The sheer number of people who have written to tell me their own stories of rape and abuse has been heartbreaking. Many have said they’ve never told anyone about their rape or abuse, or that the people they told didn’t believe them.

But they’ve also said that my story has given them hope that the dialogue about rape is changing. Some have reevaluated their own trauma in light of learning about the Bystander Effect. One person wrote that I had given her a gift: “the ability to see that the people in the room were victims too. Their behavior didn’t mean I deserved [the abuse]. It just meant they were afraid and didn’t know what to do.”

I know some people watching the online drama unfold have been discouraged by the lack of support I’ve received from my former bandmates. To which I can only say that I hope you never have to walk in their shoes. My rape was traumatic for everyone, not just me, and everyone deals with trauma in their own way and time. It took exceptional courage for many of the witnesses to talk frankly about how they felt. Most have apologized to me for their inaction that night -- apologies that have been unnecessary, though welcome.

My rape also left scars on Victory and the other people who only experienced indirectly what happened that night. It can’t have been easy to listen to the way the band treated me after I left (treatment I was mercifully unaware of at the time). All I can say about what was said and done is that my bandmates were children who’d witnessed something criminal and tragic. I’ve no doubt they were dealing with it as best they were able. They had no responsible adults to guide them – only a rapist and his apologists.

If I am disappointed in one thing, it is that the story has become about who knew what when and who did or didn’t do what. That isn’t the story at all. It would be nice if everyone who was there the night I was raped could talk about how it has affected them over the years. But if they don’t want to talk it about, I respect that. It’s taken me years to talk about it without shame. I can only imagine what it must have been like to have watched it happen.

I only wish that if my bandmates can’t remember what happened that night – or if they just remember it differently –they would stick simply to saying that. By asserting that if they’d witnessed my rape, they’d have done something about it, they perpetuate the very myth I was trying to dispel when I decided to tell my story. Being a passive bystander is not a “crime.” All of us have been passive bystanders at some point in our lives.

If we have any hope at all of putting an end to incidents like these, we need to stop doubting the accusers and start holding rapists, abusers and bullies accountable. What we don’t need to do is point fingers at those who weren’t to blame for their actions.

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Please do me the favor of explaining your version of empowerment. All sarcasm aside, I want to know.

Again why? Your ridiculous, chauvinistic posts prove any attempt at enlightenment would be a futile, wasted effort. Instead, if you really wish to understand, I suggest you attend a meeting or two of rape survivors or talk to family members of rape victims.

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So much for believing her, seems her band mates disagree with her story.

http://www.theguardian.com/music/2015/jul/13/joan-jett-cherie-currie-dispute-jackie-fuchs-rape-kim-fowley

If it were just Jackie Fuchs I might believe that the drugs she ingested had jumbled her memories of that night. However, other people witnessed both the rape and Cherie Curie and Joan Jett's presence. Why deny it when witnesses have claimed they were present? Who knows? It's possible they always disliked Fuchs and simply didn't give a damn what happened to her. It's more likely they're too ashamed to admit how cowed they were by Kim Fowley.

Didn't Cheri Currie once mention that Kim Fowley asked Robert Plant to deflower her but Plant turned him down? Or was it Lita Ford?

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It was Cherie, Kim thought that their "affair" would be good for her career or something like that.

Talking about rape is one of the worst things that woman can experience, many people try to tell you that it was your fault or you secretly wanted this or you weren't screaming loud enough and million other excuses. As if what happened to you wasn't terrible enough you have to fight for your dignity while they try to defend rapist.

In 2013 woman was raped twice by two paramedics while she suffered seizure. Her supervisor told her that "things like that happens, it's better to forget" and "remember that you have no witnesses", "don't feel pity for yourself". When she went to police she was told that if she was really being raped she would scream louder and attack rapist( even though they knew that she suffered epileptic seizure). When she went to hospital after 2 days, she was still bleeding. They found his DNA on her. None of the rapists went to jail, both of them got probation because "they didn't have problems with law before". It was only two years ago in Europe.

How would Jackie benefit from telling she was raped now? Joan has much more to loose but Jackie clearly understands thet what is really important is to talk about Kim, not Joan or Cherie. Everybody seems to focus on witnesses and not the rapist.

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...How would Jackie benefit from telling she was raped now? Joan has much more to loose but Jackie clearly understands thet what is really important is to talk about Kim, not Joan or Cherie. Everybody seems to focus on witnesses and not the rapist...

You make an excellent point about Jackie Fuchs wanting to keep the focus on Kim Fowley's behavior and not on that of the witnesses. When I first read the article I thought that Fuchs was far more forgiving of Jett, Currie and the other witnesses who stood by than I could have been in her situation. She's also wiser than I because calling out the witnesses would have shifted the focus (and blame) from Fowley, her rapist, onto the witnesses. My hat is off to this lady. I can't begin to imagine the interior work she had to do to get to the emotional space she currently inhabits.

Why did Fowley rape her in front of several witnesses? Besides the fact that he was a malevolent asshat? She stood up for herself and the other girls. Remember the way she confronted the journalist who wrote about female surfers? She was assertive and to some men that's a red flag. IMO, Fowley drugged and raped her in front of several witnesses because he wanted to cut her down to size in the most humiliating and emotionally devastating manner possible. It is to her credit that she continued to protest against his management after the rape. That took guts and a belief in herself that Fowley wasn't able to entirely crush.

Edited by Disco Duck

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It's interesting to get some of the female members view on this. But I still feel that given this Fowler's reputation and being dead now, it's not going to be a big ordeal for the band members to come forward at this time, and provide testimony. Were there any male witnesses? Would anyone's feelings be different if the band members had been male?

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It's interesting to get some of the female members view on this. But I still feel that given this Fowler's reputation and being dead now, it's not going to be a big ordeal for the band members to come forward at this time, and provide testimony. Were there any male witnesses? Would anyone's feelings be different if the band members had been male?

I have my own opinions of Jackie Fuchs' band mates but I think her opinion on this topic is the only one that matters. The focus should be on Kim Fowley, what he did to her and the impact his raping her had on the people in his orbit.

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^ From what I have read on this, no one has backed up her story. Therefore, she appears to be calling wolf, while Fowler rests in peace. Why it is acceptable to let it remain this way, is quite beyond me.

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^ From what I have read on this, no one has backed up her story. Therefore, she appears to be calling wolf, while Fowler rests in peace. Why it is acceptable to let it remain this way, is quite beyond me.

Did you click on the link and read the entire article? At least two other people who were present when Fowley raped Fuchs have backed up her story, Trudi Roessler and Brent Williams.

Edited by Disco Duck

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^ I did not read the full story. I have stated before, that I am not here to post or read links. I talk to people, to hear their opinions - or offer mine. If her story has been confirmed, then there is indeed little more to say, here. Thank you for the clarification, Disco Duck!

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It's interesting to get some of the female members view on this. But I still feel that given this Fowler's reputation and being dead now, it's not going to be a big ordeal for the band members to come forward at this time, and provide testimony. Were there any male witnesses? Would anyone's feelings be different if the band members had been male?

On the contrary, it could be a very big ordeal for Fuchs' band mates to come forward now. Joan Jett is a feminist icon in the rock world. However, if you can believe Fuchs, Jett, Currie and Lita Ford were unwilling to stand up to Kim Fowley during Fuchs tenure in The Runaways. How is Joan Jett, the feminist icon, going to explain to her fans that she stood by and did nothing while Kim Fowley raped her band mate? IMO, if Fuchs can forgive her former band mates than I certainly can. However, it's possible that the other women haven't dealt with their own relationships with Fowley.

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^ From what I have read on this, no one has backed up her story. Therefore, she appears to be calling wolf, while Fowler rests in peace. Why it is acceptable to let it remain this way, is quite beyond me.

So, everything that you have ever said in your life, that could not be backed up by another person, is a lie. Thanks for letting us know.

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^ Wow - I am guilty of not reading the entire link, which was provided. However, you do not seem to have read any of the posts I've already made - where my opinion is clearly stated.

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What is truly sad about this story is the lack of adult supervision these girls received. They evidently had no responsible adults looking out for them, which isn't much different from today's child stardom. Just look at Miley and Bieber. Awful train wrecks.

The human brain develops from the back (ie, brain stem which controls the diaphragm which in turn controls breathing, hence why it is developed first so a newborn can take its first breath) to the front (ie frontal lobe where all the planning and decision making is made)..anyway, this entire process isn't completed until the time a child reaches the age of or around 25 years. This should explain to the reader why teenagers still need their parents and SHOULD NOT BE TAKING DRUGS OR ALCOHOL which will interfere with their development. Make sense?? They're not done cooking!!

These girls, and countless like them have been short changed (or perhaps abused) by the adults in their lives. Period.

If anybody, and I mean anybody laid a hand on my underage kid? Would be taken out to the shed by the male members of my family...

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What is truly sad about this story is the lack of adult supervision these girls received. They evidently had no responsible adults looking out for them, which isn't much different from today's child stardom. Just look at Miley and Bieber. Awful train wrecks.

The human brain develops from the back (ie, brain stem which controls the diaphragm which in turn controls breathing, hence why it is developed first so a newborn can take its first breath) to the front (ie frontal lobe where all the planning and decision making is made)..anyway, this entire process isn't completed until the time a child reaches the age of or around 25 years. This should explain to the reader why teenagers still need their parents and SHOULD NOT BE TAKING DRUGS OR ALCOHOL which will interfere with their development. Make sense?? They're not done cooking!!

These girls, and countless like them have been short changed (or perhaps abused) by the adults in their lives. Period.

If anybody, and I mean anybody laid a hand on my underage kid? Would be taken out to the shed by the male members of my family...

:goodpost:

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An enlightening article about what psychologists have termed "The Bystander Effect".

http://www.alternet.org/gender/bystander-effect-jackie-fox-bill-cosby-and-how-help-stop-sexual-violence

Too many people are focusing on what Joan Jett and Cherie Curie did or didn't do. This shouldn't be about blaming or shaming Joan and Cherie...Jackie Fuchs herself has magnanimously asked the media not to castigate Joan or Cherie for their actions.

The culprit was Kim Fowley not the girls. The blame rests on him.

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An enlightening article about what psychologists have termed "The Bystander Effect".

http://www.alternet.org/gender/bystander-effect-jackie-fox-bill-cosby-and-how-help-stop-sexual-violence

Too many people are focusing on what Joan Jett and Cherie Curie did or didn't do. This shouldn't be about blaming or shaming Joan and Cherie...Jackie Fuchs herself has magnanimously asked the media not to castigate Joan or Cherie for their actions.

The culprit was Kim Fowley not the girls. The blame rests on him.

I agree, however this is 40 years later, those girls are now women in their mid-50's and their failure to acknowledge what happened is the issue, especially on Jett's part. No offense but Currie does chainsaw art and is more than a bit "off." Jett on the other hand has made her career as a strong, independent woman who takes no shit from any man, a real feminist icon. Jett's failure to not only substantiate what happened, or at least make a statement that she does not remember due to drug use or whatever, and instead immediately contacts her lawyers and tell her people to close ranks is sad. It gives the appearance that she is more afraid of her reputation as a strong feminist icon being tarnished, then she is in supporting a former bandmate and woman.

I just believe a statement from Jett, one way or the other, would make all the difference, especially since she herself, purposefully, has built this image of the strong female rebel, fighting the system and winning.

Fowley was a piece of shit, no one debates that, but it is long past time to step up, do the right thing and support an abused girl.

Edited by IpMan

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What is truly sad about this story is the lack of adult supervision these girls received. They evidently had no responsible adults looking out for them, which isn't much different from today's child stardom. Just look at Miley and Bieber. Awful train wrecks.

The human brain develops from the back (ie, brain stem which controls the diaphragm which in turn controls breathing, hence why it is developed first so a newborn can take its first breath) to the front (ie frontal lobe where all the planning and decision making is made)..anyway, this entire process isn't completed until the time a child reaches the age of or around 25 years. This should explain to the reader why teenagers still need their parents and SHOULD NOT BE TAKING DRUGS OR ALCOHOL which will interfere with their development. Make sense?? They're not done cooking!!

These girls, and countless like them have been short changed (or perhaps abused) by the adults in their lives. Period.

Everything you wrote above is true. However, some young people aren't lucky enough to have a responsible adult in their lives to protect and guide them. IMO, these are the kids who most need the protection of the law. Also, I didn't get the impression from the article that Jackie Fuchs' mother was an irresponsible or negligent parent. Fowley conned her into believing The Runaways would always be accompanied by a female chaperon and would have a private tutor who accompanied them on tour.

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