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Flares

1977 pro-shot soundcheck

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Remember though that Page sat on the tapes for Southampton and LA/Long Beach for an insanely long time. The 90s remasters came and went, as did the BBC sessions release, the best of collections....and still no mention of any of those gigs even existing (although it was assumed/known that they did). And look how much more time it was after that for the Paris 69 show to get released, even though it had already leaked via radio/bootleg.

If there's any consistency to Page it's that he does not mind waiting. His reason for witholding things has no rhyme/reason. He had the videos for Earls Court in his archives, yet he chose to release snippets of Seattle 77 to MTV for their 90s rocumentary. Makes absolutely no sense. So, for him to have Houston/Landover/Pontiac 77 and just be sitting on them with no plan to release wouldn't be surprising at all. If anything, that would make the most sense, given his longstanding pattern. Case in point: he was talking about doing a live chronology back in the 70s, and it took him until 2003 to finally do it.  

 

 

 

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There is a great quality video of Page wearing sunglasses, I think this is the show

JP4.jpg

That photo is from 6/23/77 during The Song Remains The Same. Page wore the sunglasses for the start of every 1977 show. Along with that scarf. 

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What was it JPJ said in the press conference for Celebration Day? Words to the effect of "10 years is like five minutes in Zeppelin time".

They take ages to agree on anything. Throw in Page's secrecy, and his desire to generate mystique by keeping fans in the dark, and you have a very frustrating combo. 

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Well on another site I'm pretty sure recalling a SHOWCO staffer having said that after the 

show Peter Grant wanted the video/film from a certain 77' show immediately destroyed.

Of course it was probably from Page's orders, if true, and he didn't want a document of

his drugged out state/ terrible playing on a particular show recorded. That might account

for some of the huge video screen shows simply logically unavailable. Still, considering

that Page put overdubs on and "corrections" on stuff as solid as the BBC sessions, Page

must have more video/film than he says. That PATHOLOGICAL perfectionism !!!

Actually I believe that was here a few years back, in one of the Pontiac or Houston '77 discussions here a forum member named "kdh" claimed Peter Grant had the Pontiac video "destroyed". He had no basis for his claims whatsoever, and he certainly never cited SHOWCO as the source. And I wonder if after all this time ol' kdh's hands and feet still hurt from the nails after the way we crucified him for making those claims... :lol:

See, that's one of the problems with the Zep community when it comes to collecting: you never get a straight goddamn answer direct from the source of the claims, it's always this fucking game of "So and so told me that so and so said that so and so said..." ad infintum. It's almost always fourth or fifth hand information that gets taken as gospel, and in most cases hardly anybody ever seems to question it...you need to have a good built in bullshit detector in order to get by in the audio/video trading community.

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If the 75 and 77 tours hadn't abrouptly ended, then we could assume that that some of those cancelled stadium shows might have been pro shot.

I'm amazed that no one on the inside, has written about Led Zeppelin touring, with the exception of Richard Cole. What Gives?? Do they fear the Dragon?

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Just on the potential 'hoarding' of pro-shot shows, I think it is most likely a case of people sitting on something inherited/handed down and not ever playing it or realising what it is. Something that at any time could surface as a "Hey! Look what I have discovered from what my uncle left me!" and off goes the video to Jimmy Page / the Estate - or whatever. Otherwise, since a few people think there is something to Peter Grant insisting on video destruction in '77, the alternate of "abuh-dee abuh-dee - That's AAALL folks!" seems likely.

There is one other scenario. Does anyone have any knowledge of if Jimmy himself has said either way if he has pro-shot gear from '77? If he has never confirmed OR denied - well who knows.....

Personally, I'll forever live in hope, but with very low expectations. I am just so freakin glad I have discovered the incredibly rich amount of brilliant bootlegs. More than I seem to be able to get through. Just bloody amazing.

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"Does anyone have any knowledge of if Jimmy himself has said either way if he has pro-shot gear from '77?"

Page would ramble for two minutes, make a cryptic comment, and not answer the question.

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"Does anyone have any knowledge of if Jimmy himself has said either way if he has pro-shot gear from '77?"

Page would ramble for two minutes, make a cryptic comment, and not answer the question.

Then next time he's ask he'll say something that conflicts with his first comment. :lol:

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"Does anyone have any knowledge of if Jimmy himself has said either way if he has pro-shot gear from '77?"

Page would ramble for two minutes, make a cryptic comment, and not answer the question.

Then next time he's ask he'll say something that conflicts with his first comment. :lol:

Thats a LOL - but also a possible indication that he has something. The obfuscation could be to not give away what is in possession. Or could be nothing at all. :whistling:

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If the 75 and 77 tours hadn't abrouptly ended, then we could assume that that some of those cancelled stadium shows might have been pro shot.

Does anyone have any knowledge of if Jimmy himself has said either way if he has pro-shot gear from '77? If he has never confirmed OR denied - well who knows.....

Page supposedly said in an interview at some point that they were planning on filming/recording some of the later '77 gigs- presumably the big shows they had lined up such as the Superdome in New Orleans, etc. But we know what happened there. 

It's been said in other discussions here (and probably elsewhere :lol: ) that Led Zeppelin actually did themselves a great disservice by not capturing more of their performances for posterity. Especially in retrospect. I mean, I doubt Page, Plant or Jonesy sit around thinking "Damn, wish we'd recorded such and such gig" or anything, but like 2551 pointed out, if somebody stumbled across some old film or tapes in a box in Unc's basement it's not like any of the band wold say no if that footage was ever offered to them. 

Because no mater where it might end up, when old uncirculated tapes or film are found, that's usually what happens: you stumble across this dusty old stuff in a goddamn box in the basement or garage. By accident, more often than not. 

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There is one other scenario. Does anyone have any knowledge of if Jimmy himself has said either way if he has pro-shot gear from '77? If he has never confirmed OR denied - well who knows.....

The crux of the matter is this: It's not just the what but the where that is important.

For whatever was filmed, was it stored at Jimmy's house, where all manner of thieves were ransacking his tapes in the 80s? Or were they stored in Atlantic or Swan Song vaults, secure and properly marked?

Neil Young has had an archivist on the payroll for years to keep track of every bit of tape and film. The Beatles, Rolling Stones, and Bob Dylan also had the organizational wherewithal to keep track of their archives.

Over at Led Zeppelin headquarters, matters seem to have been run willy-nilly, with no thought of preserving anything for the future. 

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The crux of the matter is this: It's not just the what but the where that is important.

For whatever was filmed, was it stored at Jimmy's house, where all manner of thieves were ransacking his tapes in the 80s? Or were they stored in Atlantic or Swan Song vaults, secure and properly marked?

Neil Young has had an archivist on the payroll for years to keep track of every bit of tape and film. The Beatles, Rolling Stones, and Bob Dylan also had the organizational wherewithal to keep track of their archives.

Over at Led Zeppelin headquarters, matters seem to have been run willy-nilly, with no thought of preserving anything for the future. 

It's been conjecture for a long time that the source of much LZ material has been Showco employees or others with backstage access. The real sources of of certain materials has yet to be determined. What does the source matter anyway. Stuff turns up when it turns up. What do you know about where material originates from?

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It's been conjecture for a long time that the source of much LZ material has been Showco employees or others with backstage access. The real sources of of certain materials has yet to be determined. What does the source matter anyway. Stuff turns up when it turns up. What do you know about where material originates from?

You totally missed my point. 

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You totally missed my point. 

Don't think so. Tell us how you know where material is sourced from and how you know LZ headquarters (Jimmy Page/Atlantic) dropped the ball.

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Strider, I think a lot of it was to do with Peter Grant not believing that the Zep live experience could be recreated on the small screen and that the video footage was more for the band's entertainment. Remember on that Thames video with Plant he talks about watching some Earls Court footage on a tiny box and it didn't excite him. This is of course before the days of widescreen teles, etc. He just didn't see any commercial gain in it. Grant also described the SRTS as the "most expensive home movie ever shot", so maybe they didn't make much money out of that enterprise, and were reluctant to bring in a 16mm professional film crew again. Page and Grant were notoriously tight with the pennies. Then throw in a chaotic off-stage crew that by '77 included petty crims, drug dealers and Page out his tree, and you probably have the answer!  Bottom line is Grant didn't see the footage as a profit making commercial project, and with Page addicted to the white lady by 77, then the tapes probably just languished somewhere.

Edited by Flares

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Strider, I think a lot of it was to do with Peter Grant not believing that the Zep live experience could be recreated on the small screen and the the video footage was more for the band's entertainment. Remember on that Thames video with Plant he talks about watching some Earls Court footage on a tiny box and it didn't excite him. This is of course before the days of widescreen teles, etc. He just didn't see any commercial gain in it. Grant also described the SRTS as the "most expensive home movie ever shot", so maybe they didn't make much money out of that enterprise, and were reluctant to bring in a 16mm professional film crew again. Page and Grant were notoriously tight with the pennies. Then throw in a chaotic off-stage crew that by '77 included petty crims, drug dealers and Page out his tree, and you probably have the answer!  Bottom line is. Grant didn't see the footage as a profit making commercial project, and with Page addicted to the white lady by 77, then the tapes probably just languished somewhere.

That's pretty much verbatim stuff you read in a book. 

if the video exists, either put up or shut up. Just spare us the bullshit. Comprendes?

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Don't think so. Tell us how you know where material is sourced from and how you know LZ headquarters (Jimmy Page/Atlantic) dropped the ball.

You have shown yourself to be a serial idiot and for my sanity's sake, I have resolved to stop getting involved with rabble-rousers on the internet. Good day.

Edited by Strider

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You have shown yourself to be a serial idiot and for my sanity's sake, I have resolved to stop getting involved with rabble-rousers on the internet. Good day.

You've proven my point. You can't back up the bullshit you post.

Didn't you put me on ignore a long time ago?

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That's pretty much verbatim stuff you read in a book. 

if the video exists, either put up or shut up. Just spare us the bullshit. Comprendes?

Emm, as Strider says you're clearly just trying to noise people up. I'm not taking the bait.

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OK, here's the bait. What kind of lowlife subhuman would suggest to hardcore fans that a previously unknown video exists which probably won't circulate and can't be proven. 

Who's really dangling the bait in this tread? Provide evidence that your claim is legitimate otherwise you're full of shit. Regardless of what Strider thinks.

Grow a pair and man up.

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Page supposedly said in an interview at some point that they were planning on filming/recording some of the later '77 gigs- presumably the big shows they had lined up such as the Superdome in New Orleans, etc. But we know what happened there. 

It's been said in other discussions here (and probably elsewhere :lol: ) that Led Zeppelin actually did themselves a great disservice by not capturing more of their performances for posterity. Especially in retrospect. I mean, I doubt Page, Plant or Jonesy sit around thinking "Damn, wish we'd recorded such and such gig" or anything, but like 2551 pointed out, if somebody stumbled across some old film or tapes in a box in Unc's basement it's not like any of the band wold say no if that footage was ever offered to them. 

Because no mater where it might end up, when old uncirculated tapes or film are found, that's usually what happens: you stumble across this dusty old stuff in a goddamn box in the basement or garage. By accident, more often than not. 

 

Edited by kdh
Not really, I just stopped posting or giving any information, not worth playing the "I know what I read and I know what I know" game

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OK, here's the bait. What kind of lowlife subhuman would suggest to hardcore fans that a previously unknown video exists which probably won't circulate and can't be proven. 

Who's really dangling the bait in this tread? Provide evidence that your claim is legitimate otherwise you're full of shit. Regardless of what Strider thinks.

Grow a pair and man up.

I don't personally believe someone is being a lowlife when making such statements, I think (could be wrong) that most who do this on this forum do so in the hopes that maybe someone is on the forum who has some insight and can add to the narrative, hoping to get to the truth.

I think Flares could be pretty spot on though with his opinion as to why there is so little video in general. By the 77' tour Grant himself was so smacked out that Cole was pretty much running the show which sucked because Cole was smacked out as well. Looking at the big picture of that tour it really is amazing it did not grind to a halt after Chicago. As far as management was concerned, the tour was akin to giving the gang from Animal House control of the 69' moon landing and hoping for the best.

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