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Clapton and Page

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Yes, he did, having signed an artist management deal with Trinifold in Autumn 1986. Bill Curbishley's immediate advice and council to Robert was embrace your Zeppelin roots--fast!

Of course not. In fact Page recorded both solos in a single three hour session one afternoon in 1987.

Interesting Steve, I always wondered what the impetus was for Plant, who prior had been so adamant about NOT playing Zeppelin tunes in concert, suddenly had a change of heart for first Now & Zen and the subsequent tour. I can tell you this much, the attendance at the 88' gig I went to was larger and rowdier than the 85' Shaken n' Stirred tour and of course Now & Zen reached #6 and the singles Heaven Knows & Tall Cool One both hit #1 vs. Shaken n' Stirred only reaching #20. One would say Mr. Curbishley was wise council indeed.

Fun Fact: Now & Zen did reach #1 on the CD only sales chart and was the first album to do so as it was a brand new rating system in response to CD's coming into prominence.

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Having a clueless moment here. On one of the previous pages, there is an interview that mentions
Plant calling Jimmy a punter at one time when he went to see the Firm I believe. 

Maybe I am losing something with British to American meaning with that word. All I keep trying to do
is connect Jimmy Page with a position on a NFL roster and I draw a blank.  Can anyone explain
what he meant. Online dictionary I didn't find helpful in this case. :) 

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Having a clueless moment here. On one of the previous pages, there is an interview that mentions
Plant calling Jimmy a punter at one time when he went to see the Firm I believe. 

Maybe I am losing something with British to American meaning with that word. All I keep trying to do
is connect Jimmy Page with a position on a NFL roster and I draw a blank.  Can anyone explain
what he meant. Online dictionary I didn't find helpful in this case. :) 

A punter is someone who places a bet, or a customer from the point of view of someone trying to sell something.
A bar owner who hasn't got many customers in might say 'not many punters in tonight'.  A band playing to a rowdy audience might say that 'the punters are restless!'.
I think Robert was probably calling himself a punter as he was an audience member (ticket buyer) at a Firm gig.

 

Edited by woz70

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A punter is someone who places a bet, or a customer from the point of view of someone trying to sell something.A bar owner who hasn't got many customers in might say 'not many punters in tonight'.  A band playing to a rowdy audience might say that 'the punters are restless!'.
I think Robert was probably calling himself a punter as he was an audience member (ticket buyer) at a Firm gig.

 

:wave: Thank you woz70!!

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I just listened to this interview.  IMO, Plant was saying that Page needed to find better outlets  than The Firm.  He thinks he is a brilliant and very original guitarist with a knack for coming in at odd and interesting angles.  He thought Page's playing was great in The Firm concert he attended, but the music itself was unoriginal.  He thinks that Page should care more how others view him and his music but added that he never really has.  He also wondered if Page would be able to play the music that he (Plant) was doing in his solo albums because this music was more precise in regards to time signature and key while Page's playing tended to be "rambling and Wagnerian".  

This was a very illuminating interview, imo.  Plant put into words what so many rock fans find special and unique about Page's guitar playing.  The "come into a song at odd angles" is the best description of Page's playing that I've read.  It also gives us some insight into Page's post-Zeppelin career.  Page's guitar ramblings and tendency to come in at odd angles during a song  may make it harder for him to find singers and other musicians who are a good fit.  

Great insights and especially the come in at odd angles is illuminating indeed. Thanks but I understood all that then actually. I guess I was looking for more of a hidden meaning in what Robert was saying haha but it seems he was being more straightforward than I thought! Robert was saying that his cavalier attitude brings him a lack of freedom I thought and I couldn't really follow what he was trying to say. This lack of freedom of Jimmys that Robert talks about is intriguing and I thought maybe someone could expand on it on what they think he means?

Edited by Trey

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Interesting Steve, I always wondered what the impetus was for Plant, who prior had been so adamant about NOT playing Zeppelin tunes in concert, suddenly had a change of heart for first Now & Zen and the subsequent tour.

Commercial failure of Shaken n Stirred followed by sacking entire band for "menopausal rumblings" (his words not mine). You could argue having a mid-life crisis was the best thing to ever happen to his solo career as it spawned three solid albums.

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Robert was saying that his cavalier attitude brings him a lack of freedom I thought and I couldn't really follow what he was trying to say. This lack of freedom of Jimmys that Robert talks about is intriguing and I thought maybe someone could expand on it on what they think he means?

I take it to mean Plant feels Page's comfort with living in the past (as a musician) resulted in predictable music with The Firm and had kept (and still keeps) Page from seeking new ground artistically, and as such he is no longer contemporary.  

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I take it to mean Plant feels Page's comfort with living in the past (as a musician) resulted in predictable music with The Firm and had kept (and still keeps) Page from seeking new ground artistically, and as such he is no longer contemporary.  

Yes Page is  nostalgic when it comes to Zep. On another but similar line of thought I came across a recently uploaded press conference on youtube of Page and Plant '94 in Japan and the gist of it is Robert says his heart wasn't really in Zep  but that his heart is in the  Unledded project and you can see Jimmy is visibly upset and taken back by this and a few mins later Jimmy obviously feels the needs to address this and says his heart has always been in the music right the way from Zep to the present (at the time ) and has never wavered from the beginnign to Unledded. I feel both had two entirely different experiences in Zep. I feel for Jimmy it meant everything to him and he was much older and more experienced wheras for Robert he was a kid when he was in Zep and still searching and didn't find himself til later. It's kind of sad. Youtube it as I don't want copyrightist to take it down!

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Yes Page is  nostalgic when it comes to Zep. On another but similar line of thought I came across a recently uploaded press conference on youtube of Page and Plant '94 in Japan and the gist of it is Robert says his heart wasn't really in Zep  but that his heart is in the  Unledded project and you can see Jimmy is visibly upset and taken back by this and a few mins later Jimmy obviously feels the needs to address this and says his heart has always been in the music right the way from Zep to the present (at the time ) and has never wavered from the beginnign to Unledded. I feel both had two entirely different experiences in Zep. I feel for Jimmy it meant everything to him and he was much older and more experienced wheras for Robert he was a kid when he was in Zep and still searching and didn't find himself til later. It's kind of sad. Youtube it as I don't want copyrightist to take it down!

lol I didn't mean to make you paranoid about that Trey! I was mostly referring to the Hendrix stuff. ;)

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lol I didn't mean to make you paranoid about that Trey! I was mostly referring to the Hendrix stuff. ;)

Not remotely paranoid- just being careful as got the impression from this forum that posting any youtube links were often taken down. Thanks good to know that's not the case it's only the Hendrix copy police haha

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Yes Page is  nostalgic when it comes to Zep. On another but similar line of thought I came across a recently uploaded press conference on youtube of Page and Plant '94 in Japan and the gist of it is Robert says his heart wasn't really in Zep  but that his heart is in the  Unledded project and you can see Jimmy is visibly upset and taken back by this and a few mins later Jimmy obviously feels the needs to address this and says his heart has always been in the music right the way from Zep to the present (at the time ) and has never wavered from the beginnign to Unledded. I feel both had two entirely different experiences in Zep. I feel for Jimmy it meant everything to him and he was much older and more experienced wheras for Robert he was a kid when he was in Zep and still searching and didn't find himself til later. It's kind of sad. Youtube it as I don't want copyrightist to take it down!

Thanks for the heads up. I hadn't seen that presser before. There's lots of laughter between the two of them, which is in contrast to the Australian press conference and other ones from that tour when the relationship seems to be a bit strained again. I'm still convinced that Plant only got back with Page because his solo career had stalled: in 1993 he was supporting Lenny Kravitz. I wonder if demos of the other 4 or five new songs ended up on WITC or if they are gathering dust in a vault somewhere.

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These last few posts are kind of hilarious. Partially when Plant mentions the bit about Page coming in

at odd angles, musically that usually means the guitarist's riffs are in odd timings or don't start on

the first beat. Not told too often, Jones the trained arranger had no trouble with this, but there are even

some studio boots where Bonham is struggling with the "odd angles", and Page has trouble trying

to count out his own part !! Pretty sure it was(one example)the fanfare part in Stairway before the solo.

Actually I am a guitar teacher, and as ridiculous as it may sound, your own riffs, because they sound 

totally natural to yourself, can actually tie you in knots if explanation is necessary. JPJ is different

because he had formal training in arranging, orchestrating, music theory,etc. The thing with Plant

jumping on the bandwagon, I never heard that and for some reason if he did that then, who's to

say it won't happen in some form again ??

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he thing with Plant jumping on the bandwagon, I never heard that and for some reason if he did that then, who's to

say it won't happen in some form again ??

He did what he had to do at the time to maintain a viable solo career. However, that was more than 25 years ago. Times have changed, the industry has changed and he has changed. At this point we'd be lucky to see Page & Plant lunch, let alone launch.  

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Yeah, the odd angles are not just in Page's riffs, the odd angles between Page and Plant

don't add up to anything resembling a functional triangle. The whole thing is very complex but even though I do think Robert has turned into a serious control freak, I'm sure his

hair-pulling experiences with Jimmy as an addict/alcoholic would have tried anyone's

patience. Some fans have heard of the 77' show where Page stumbled out onto the

stage for the opener, TSRTS, with the dbl-neck, with his hands on the wrong neck,

Plant looking worriedly on. Forget this is the 70's, everybody's  high. You still had to

play like a pro, Page is my fave, but I believe that in private, Page developed a pretty

bad reputation from all this. Otherwise, there would be soundtrack offers, other musos

knocking down his door, etc.. Beck for example gets all kinds of offers, constantly.

 

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Yeah, the odd angles are not just in Page's riffs, the odd angles between Page and Plant

don't add up to anything resembling a functional triangle. The whole thing is very complex but even though I do think Robert has turned into a serious control freak, I'm sure his

hair-pulling experiences with Jimmy as an addict/alcoholic would have tried anyone's

patience. Some fans have heard of the 77' show where Page stumbled out onto the

stage for the opener, TSRTS, with the dbl-neck, with his hands on the wrong neck,

Plant looking worriedly on. Forget this is the 70's, everybody's  high. You still had to

play like a pro, Page is my fave, but I believe that in private, Page developed a pretty

bad reputation from all this. Otherwise, there would be soundtrack offers, other musos

knocking down his door, etc.. Beck for example gets all kinds of offers, constantly.

 

It would explain some things about his post-Zep career.

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Page and Clapton, 1983. Never heard of this before. Legit?

Definitely some Page-esque B-bender action going on in there.

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On 10/3/2015 at 7:59 PM, kirchzep27 said:

I am really too old to care about drama, whatever it is it is. But i really think putting jimmy on that arms tour was a mistake on one hand, yet caring of him to participate. My gosh, it was like the hangover of the risk taking 70s there in 1983. It would never happen today. Pages drug bubble was there for everyone to see, yet again...he stepped up and gave of himself.

Jimmy Page is by far the most creative guitarist out of the beck, clapton, page guitar hero group. My 2 cents. I have claptons box set and a dvd, he is great....i like clapton. But i love page, so much more on the map of music. All of them played deep, but jimmy w zep was just sprawling all over the place....i really think he must have been high on being able to play with jones and bonham and yet have a writing partnership with one of the best rock singers, artist ever. 

Agree! 

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On 11/17/2015 at 12:45 AM, Mithril46 said:

Actually I remember some short interview with Page in CIRCUS magazine in 81' or so.Page, believe it or not , said much of his live soloing is kinda worked out to a degree.

If you listen to many live versions of 73'-75' D&C , many sections are quite close from

one night to the next. Anyway, Page then went on to mention how great Blackmore was,

that he improvised 90% of his solos. Only time I ever heard Page speak of Blackmore.

Woe!  REALLY ??? Amazing , yea me niether!  Circus mag 81' ?  GOT To find this!    

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On 10/6/2015 at 7:40 PM, mstork said:

That allegedly happened at the Philly gig in their first tour, I heard that from an unlikely source; my dad!  He'd heard about it from some guys at work who knew someone who knew someone so I take it with a grain of salt, but I've heard that story elsewhere since so who knows.  All I know is I saw them the very next night at the Meadowlands in NJ and something was off between the two of them.  The next night Jimmy came out of his shell and blew the house down.  Robert kissed him on the head after a raging TSRTS and they both smiled and it seemed all was forgiven, assuming there's truth to the story.

I really like how jimmy aknowledged Plant by geting back to bussiness & being excelent after a rough show & robert giving him a brotherly peck on his forehead.... STANDBY.......(i kinda got a lil something in my eye😥)

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I'm 90% certain the "tension" between Page and Clapton was addiction related. It was kind of dismaying to hear Page a couple years ago downplay/deny his drug addictions in an interview (the one with Chuck Klosterman maybe?) when it was obvious to everyone.

That being said his post cocaine addiction; his Firm tours were pretty good albeit a bit safe, the solo Outrider tour was less safe but consistent, the CP Japan tour was again very consistent, the Page/Plant 95-96 tour was up and down (drinking I assume), the 98 tour was possibly his best post 1975, the Black Crowes tour was also great (although I think his drinking was beginning to play havoc again ... maybe providing the impetus for him to give up drinking entirely).

I've always felt that Page's nerves and the lack of addictive crutch has contributed to his unwillingness to tour solo since 2000. Some of those Black Crowes 2000 tour dates were great. Particularly the first handful.

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Jimmy gets a lot of crap for what is essentially an 8 year period blip on a 40 year career of live performance from 77-83

im just glad he survived, many did not.   

 

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On 11/17/2015 at 12:45 AM, Mithril46 said:

Actually I remember some short interview with Page in CIRCUS magazine in 81' or so.Page, believe it or not , said much of his live soloing is kinda worked out to a degree.

If you listen to many live versions of 73'-75' D&C , many sections are quite close from

one night to the next. Anyway, Page then went on to mention how great Blackmore was,

that he improvised 90% of his solos. Only time I ever heard Page speak of Blackmore.

I gota say im with you re' most everything esp all in all Page not being perfect but WINS top spot in my book also for being my favorite & by a long shot too! He even beats out Hendrix Because to me in the end Page can shred as well as be technical if needed BUT thats a lil boring to him , he wants to try and experiment  to create  JIMMY PAGE CAN COMPOSE !  END OF SUBJECT !!!!       ANYWAY like i said im with u on Pagey but like u seem to agree RITCIE BLACKMORE is still a force of his own, (thatswhy his name will always be here ! JUST been trying to locate that article re' Jimmy mentioning Blackmore , i love that he complemented him, i think Ritchie deserves it and would appreciate it comming from Jimmy, can u help me locate it... becoming a huge thing to confirm this for myself, please help i need more than 81 Circus, think brother think of more clues, PLEASE , anybody?

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The article I remember now that I think of it was really a bunch of guitarists commenting on Blackmore and Jimmy said a lot of 

his parts live were worked out ( Jimmy's) but Jimmy said Blackmore was truly improvising live. Just go on YouTube and you'll 

hear that Blackmore was very unpredictable from show to show. Sometimes he would solo in a more classical style, other times he could be very bluesy, or combine styles. Page is my man, but Blackmore could play wild solos and never really 

screw up.

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from Wikipedia ...

Page, Clapton and the Immediate All-Stars

In June 1965, Jimmy Page invited Eric Clapton to join him in a jam session at his home studio on Miles Road in London, and the two guitarists recorded seven instrumental tracks together: "Choker", "Draggin' My Tail", "Freight Loader", "Miles Road", "Snake Drive", "Tribute to Elmore" and "West Coast Idea". Page and Clapton were both of the opinion that the tracks they recorded were merely rehearsals rather than fully formed songs, but representatives of Immediate Records soon approached Page informing him that they legally owned the publishing rights to all recordings he made as per the terms of their contract. Page reluctantly gave them the recordings of the jam session in fear of a lawsuit and was asked to clean them up by adding overdubs, which he recorded that August at Olympic Studios with a new lineup of the All-Stars. This time, the group featured members of The Rolling Stones: Mick Jagger, Bill Wyman, Ian Stewart and Charlie Watts (credited as Chris Winters), facilitated by the Stones' manager at the time also being Immediate Records' co-founder, Andrew Loog Oldham. This was seen by Clapton as a betrayal of confidence on Page's part, and greatly damaged the personal relationship between the two guitarists for years to follow.

"That was a real tragedy for me... Eric and I got friendly and he came down and we did some recording at home, and Immediate found out that I had tapes of it and said they belonged to them, because I was employed by them. I argued that they couldn't put them out because they were just variations of blues structures, and in the end we dubbed some other instruments over some of them and they came out- with liner notes attributed to me (on earlier copies) though I didn't have anything to do with writing them. I didn't get a penny out of it anyway... Stu from the Stones was on piano, Mick Jagger did some harp, Bill Wyman played bass and Charlie Watts was on drums."

— Jimmy Page talking to Pete Frame.[12]

Immediate Records first released these tracks alongside the All-Stars' previous recordings in 1968, spread out across their compilation albums Blues Anytime Vol. 1–3. The tracks were initially attributed simply to Eric Clapton, or 'Eric Clapton and Jimmy Page', although many subsequent releases have given the credit to 'The Immediate All-Stars'

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