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JonF

Knebworth or Earl's Court? Which is the better concert

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17 hours ago, Nutrocker said:

hink a large part of the accolades those shows getarrow-10x10.png is because they happen to be some of the few where pro shot/multitrack footage exists. In a perfect world we'd have pro-shot footage of, say, the March 21 '75 Seattle show and the July 24 '79 Copenhagen show.

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17 hours ago, Nutrocker said:

I think a large part of the accolades those shows get is because they happen to be some of the few where pro shot/multitrack footage exists. In a perfect world we'd have pro-shot footage of, say, the March 21 '75 Seattle show and the July 24 '79 Copenhagen show.

 

This is a great point.  I've been working on a "best of live" compilation and almost all of it is from non-official sources.  Knebworth and LA 72 each get a few songs, but almost everything else is from audience recordings.

Being a Zeppelin fan is a journey.  You start with hearing them on the radio, then move onto the albums.  After that, some fans check out an official live source like the DVD, How the West Was Won, The Song Remains the Same, or BBC Sessions.  My guess is that's the stage OP is at right now.  In the end, of everyone who has even listened to a Zeppelin album from start to finish, maybe 5% at MOST move onto bootlegs.  Which is a pity considering Zeppelin out-performed their studio versions fairly frequently.

Think about it.  The number of Zeppelin fans worldwide has got to be somewhere in the hundreds of million, yet the bootleg community is just a few thousand people total...

It's Zeppelin's fault this happened.  The greed and vanity of the members is entirely the reason why there isn't a better live archive.  The Grateful Dead have never reached anywhere near the popularity of Zeppelin, yet they have high-quality recordings of hundreds of shows simply by allowing bootlegs to happen.  In contrast, Peter Grant smashed recording equipment and raided bootlegs sellers, insisting the only way to experience Zeppelin live was by buying a ticket.

It's easy to look back now and talk about how irresponsible it was for Zeppelin to not bring the recording truck with them on tour, but I think that's forgivable considering how expensive and cumbersome an operation like that would have been in the 1970s.  What I can't forgive is how they fought their biggest fans: the bootleggers.

Even so, we have enough recordings to know where they really outdid themselves.  As mentioned earlier, Earls Court was nothing special even in the context of 1975.  The best show of the run (25th) would probably rank somewhere around 8th to 10th best of the 1975 tour, a tour which many consider to be the weakest they ever did.

Earls Court, Blueberry Hill, and Eddie are what I consider "first-tier" bootleg recordings.  They are what most new fans will be directed to when they decide to check out Zeppelin bootlegs.  Unfortunately, even though these are all solid shows, their popularity has more to do with decades of availability, accompanying video, and superior audio quality than what really matters (performance.)  Take into consideration how much Zeppelin even a extreme fan is willing to listen to and the result is that, of all the fans who go so far as to listen to bootlegs, 90% are never going to bother with anything beyond the first tier.

I've listened to maybe 1500 hours of Zeppelin bootleg by this point in my life.  A lot considering I first listened to a Zeppelin bootleg about two years ago, but still little compared to some people who post here.  I make up for this by being particularly curious, yet demanding.  Although I go back and listen to shows I've previously tossed aside to see if there was anything I missed, I tend to move on from shows completely once I've heard better performances of whichever songs they did best that night.  So, at any given time, there's only one or two shows from each year of touring that I bother listening to on the day-to-day basis, even though I've sat down and listened through around two hundred.

Nutrocker is someone who listens as much as I do, so it's no surprise to me he's singled out the best nights of 1975 and 1979 (second nights of Seattle and Copenhagen respectively.)  This is the conclusion anyone who bothers to explore the less-popular recordings is going to arrive at, because the fact is you won't want to keep listening to four hours of Earls Court when you know the time would be better spent with Seattle.

Unfortunately, a majority of the community has only listened to official and first-tier bootleg recordings, with maybe two oddballs tossed in (usually shows they actually attended back in the 70s.)  So when a new fan shows up trying to find the best live material out there, it always end ups being a popularity contest, which first-tier bootlegs are naturally going to win.  Again, not because of what really matters (performance), but because of things like audio quality.  That is exactly what is happening in this thread right now, what has happened in countless threads posted by new fans, and it all started because Zeppelin fought their biggest fans way back when.

I didn't mean for this post to get so long, but it turns out I had to lot to say on the subject, and I hope it's been interesting to a few of you who read along.  To bring this back to the topic at hand, Knebworth wins for me mostly because Earls Court is completely average.  Their handling of older material was below the quality of earlier years (especially for Plant) and the new material was performed with less energy and creativity than earlier on the tour.

In contrast, the 4th of Knebworth had some of the best performances by Zeppelin since 1973.  This has gone on too long already, so I won't get into details, but the reason Knebworth is so often dismissed is that the trendy press went in wanting to trash the band, which was followed by the first widespread bootleg from the event being based on the 11th, seemingly confirming their opinions.  Again, not because of what really matters

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31 minutes ago, ArmsofAtlas1977 said:

In contrast, the 4th of Knebworth had some of the best performances by Zeppelin since 1973.  

Are you kidding me? Even Plant described Knebworth as a train wreck. Yes, the 4th is much better than the 11th, but the performance is nowhere near the gigs in Seattle in 1975, LA shows in 77 or others I could mention. Even the 2nd Copenhagen warm-up is far superior (Page's last great Zep performance).

I do however agree that EC is an average 75 show and has gained popularity because of the footage and hype surrounding the event itself.

Edited by Flares

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4 hours ago, Flares said:

Are you kidding me? Even Plant described Knebworth as a train wreck. Yes, the 4th is much better than the 11th, but the performance is nowhere near the gigs in Seattle in 1975, LA shows in 77 or others I could mention. Even the 2nd Copenhagen warm-up is far superior (Page's last great Zep performance).

I do however agree that EC is an average 75 show and has gained popularity because of the footage and hype surrounding the event itself.

I may be going out on a limb here but I think several of the Europe 80' shows were pretty damn good as well. Yes, the second Copenhagen gig was excellent but was not Jimmy's last great performance in Zep, not IMO.

Also, as far as 77' is concerned, with as much love as the LA run gets, I feel the NY run is even better. Snow jobs 75' is my go to for 75' followed by the Seattle & LA run.

Edited by IpMan

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What separates and elevates Earls Court from the rest of the '75 tour dates is the acoustic set and Tangerine being included.  It gave the shows a better vibe and made them better paced, IMO.  

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1 hour ago, Walter said:

What separates and elevates Earls Court from the rest of the '75 tour dates is the acoustic set and Tangerine being included.  It gave the shows a better vibe and made them better paced, IMO.  

As always my friend has added the bit I missed. Thanks Chuck ! 

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3 hours ago, Walter said:

What separates and elevates Earls Court from the rest of the '75 tour dates is the acoustic set and Tangerine being included.  It gave the shows a better vibe and made them better paced, IMO.  

Bringing back the acoustic set was a winning idea, no doubt, but what makes or breaks a '75 show for me is NQ, and the versions at Earl's Court were rather repetitive and unremarkable to me (May 17th excepted).  This is why I'll always favor the US shows, esp. with the more up tempo versions from the West Coast.  Having said that, there were enough other highlights from Earl's Court (e.g. TU, STH, and DC from the 24th) to make the shows memorable and a reminder of why Zep was so special.  This quality was lacking from Knebworth, and really post-75 (rock god excesses of '77 notwithstanding, and at any rate that particular vibe has nothing to do with musicianship as such).

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11 minutes ago, Walter said:

The 24th No Quarter is my favorite version ever.

Check the 17th, the sound is not as good as with the 24th, but the performance is very cool and way different than any other No Quarter I have heard.

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On 29/01/2016 at 6:29 PM, JohnOsbourne said:

  Earls Court are the last really good Zeppelin shows, and Knebworh was the band's dying breath. 

I would agree the EC shows are the finale to their peak years, and 25.5.75 was an awesome finale! Hell, they even seemed to sense it on the night. Robert made several references to this being the last thing they'd do in England for a long time (thoughts on that anyone?)

As for EC being the last really good Zeppelin shows? Nah, give Badgeholders or Eddie another listen. Badgeholders is an exceptional show and holds up against any other standout show in their career; 3 hours of thundering, intense, high energy Zeppelin, with all 4 members on great form.

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17 minutes ago, renounce said:

I would agree the EC shows are the finale to their peak years, and 25.5.75 was an awesome finale! Hell, they even seemed to sense it on the night. Robert made several references to this being the last thing they'd do in England for a long time (thoughts on that anyone?)

I could not agree more with that. With hindsight (which is always a convenient and wonderful thing of course), Zeppelin should have cordially parted ways right after that final Earls Court gig, making the 1975 shows their 'Farewell Tour'. They were right on top of the World, had released the greatest first six albums in the history of rock music (as a Beatles advocate, I underscore 'greatest FIRST six') and finally had the critical respect they'd craved in their homeland.

It would be absolutely ridiculous to say that fate 'punished' them after that of course, but when you really think about it and look at it closely, things started to go wrong for the group right after that: Plant's car crash, the hastily cobbled together 'Presence' that was even a commercial failure in America (by their usual standards), the disastrous, decadent, bloated U.S. stadium tour (huge pots of cash notwithstanding), the death of poor Robert's young son, Bonham sinking further into drink, Page becoming dependent on heroin, both of them being half absent on the underwhelming (again, by their standards) 'In Through The Out Door'......and on it goes. 

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1 hour ago, juxtiphi said:

Check the 17th, the sound is not as good as with the 24th, but the performance is very cool and way different than any other No Quarter I have heard.

Fans of '77 should especially like the 17th, it's very reminiscent of that tour (minus the ludicrous "nutrocker" section).  FWIW there are indeed some brilliant moments from NQ on the 24th, it's just that the overall performance seems disjointed to me.

 

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3 hours ago, Azapro911 said:

I could not agree more with that. With hindsight (which is always a convenient and wonderful thing of course), Zeppelin should have cordially parted ways right after that final Earls Court gig, making the 1975 shows their 'Farewell Tour'. They were right on top of the World, had released the greatest first six albums in the history of rock music (as a Beatles advocate, I underscore 'greatest FIRST six') and finally had the critical respect they'd craved in their homeland.

It would be absolutely ridiculous to say that fate 'punished' them after that of course, but when you really think about it and look at it closely, things started to go wrong for the group right after that: Plant's car crash, the hastily cobbled together 'Presence' that was even a commercial failure in America (by their usual standards), the disastrous, decadent, bloated U.S. stadium tour (huge pots of cash notwithstanding), the death of poor Robert's young son, Bonham sinking further into drink, Page becoming dependent on heroin, both of them being half absent on the underwhelming (again, by their standards) 'In Through The Out Door'......and on it goes. 

I understand your point, but I have to disagree re. Presence.  It's a truly great album, and I always think of Zep in terms of their first seven, unparalleled consistent quality.  It of course reflects the stress on the band at the time (hence adding to the emotion), but Page plays snippets of Tea for One right before Tangerine (if I recall correctly) on the 25th (some people claim to hear snippets of Achilles in DC from '73, not sure about that), so clearly Presence has some pedigree preceding the negative events that seemed to afflict that band after the EC shows.

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11 hours ago, Azapro911 said:

I could not agree more with that. With hindsight (which is always a convenient and wonderful thing of course), Zeppelin should have cordially parted ways right after that final Earls Court gig, making the 1975 shows their 'Farewell Tour'. They were right on top of the World, had released the greatest first six albums in the history of rock music (as a Beatles advocate, I underscore 'greatest FIRST six') and finally had the critical respect they'd craved in their homeland.

It would be absolutely ridiculous to say that fate 'punished' them after that of course, but when you really think about it and look at it closely, things started to go wrong for the group right after that: Plant's car crash, the hastily cobbled together 'Presence' that was even a commercial failure in America (by their usual standards), the disastrous, decadent, bloated U.S. stadium tour (huge pots of cash notwithstanding), the death of poor Robert's young son, Bonham sinking further into drink, Page becoming dependent on heroin, both of them being half absent on the underwhelming (again, by their standards) 'In Through The Out Door'......and on it goes. 

Why should they have split after Earl's Court, they surely didn't know what lay ahead of them so why end it there when they were firing on all cylinders?  I for one am glad we got both Presence  and In Through the Out Door... I consider them both equally as vital and valid as those first six extraordinary albums, the former in particular.  You are correct that things started going wrong after Earl's Court but I wouldn't say Presence  was "hastily cobbled together", Zeppelin always worked very fast and granted it happened a little faster than usual (two-and-a-half months in all, which is extraordinary), but there's a reason it's become the dark-horse favourite among Zep-heads, it's even Jimmy Page's favourite of the albums... and that's saying something.  Four of the seven tracks are as good as anything the band ever produced, and one in particular, 'Achilles Last Stand', is easily in the top 3.

What happened happened  and there's no constructive purpose in wishing otherwise. Zeppelin effectively died of natural causes and it was probably the right time too; they were passed their peak and clearly in need of a long hiatus at the very least - it may have saved Bonzo's life - but that's not how it worked out, and everything happens, or doesn't, for a reason...

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2 hours ago, The Old Hermit said:

What happened happened  and there's no constructive purpose in wishing otherwise. 

renounce asked for other people's thoughts on this matter, I merely gave mine. The reason for finishing up when firing on all cylinders is that the second greatest rock band of all time, greatest of the '70s and comfortably the greatest live act ever had a chance to cement their legacy even further by going out right on top of their game, just as the Beatles had before them. I did say that hindsight is a wonderful thing, obviously this was merely the ideal scenario rather than what actually happened next. 'Presence' just feels like an album that was quickly put together because they had time on their hands, 'Achilles' is much better in its live form (something which frankly I do not feel is true for some of LZ's earlier classics) and 'In Though' is a good late '70s rock album, but doesn't really have a proper Led Zeppelin imprint on it, I look at that as more of a 'Plant & Jones' side project.

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Interesting discussion!  In my opinion, the "peak" ended with the recording of Physical Graffiti.  Although Plant's voice was deteriorating from late 1970 onward, the other members' live presence just kept getting stronger and stronger until they took there first major break following the NA 1973 tour.  John Paul Jones nearly left the group after that, but fortunately they stayed together and finished recording Physical Graffiti in early 1974.

There was a substantial change in the group's output after that.  Yes, although there would be occasional excellence all the way to the end, it was obvious that the floor had dropped out.  The energy was often sluggish, the improvisations were frequently meandering instead of invigorating, and the albums went from being mostly hits to mostly filler.  There were definitely enough amazing accomplishments after the recording of Physical Graffiti that you'd never, ever catch me saying the band should have split up....MSG, Vancouver and Seattle in 75, Achille's Last Stand and Nobody's Fault but Mine, 28 April, 30 May and the LA shows in 77, In the Evening, All My Love, Fool in the Rain and I'm Gonna Crawl, the second night at Copenhagen and the first night of Knebworth, and back to back nights in Zurich and Frankfurt in 1980; but it's obvious something changed during those two years they rested from touring, and I think it's important to recognize that the 1975 tour was, without a doubt, past their peak.

People usually talk about the horrible things that happened to the band being the reason it ended.  I disagree.  Car accidents and death of loved ones are things every group faces.  What was really killing the band before Bonham's death was their lack of self-control when it came to performances.  Especially following the 1975 tour and Earls Court, someone should have sat the group down and talked about reeling things in a bit.  Most of the reason Plant and Bonham would go on to hate touring is that they were needlessly exhausting.  Had they followed the parameters Plant eventually forced for the 1980 tour from the beginning (less than one month at a time, no more than two shows in a row, and no shows over two hours long), I believe they would have toured more and been more productive overall in their later years.  Hell, Plant might even have saved his voice.

This is all hindsight, of course, and Zeppelin were pioneers.  There was no one around to tell them about the dangers of doing such long shows and long tours because no one had ever done it before.  Still, I can't help but feel that someone on the business side of things could have helped the band in this regard.

For what it's worth, I've spent some time going over the 1977 tour and think I've nailed what the setlist should have been.

  1. Sick Again
  2. Nobody's Fault but Mine
  3. In My Time of Dying
  4. Since I've Been Loving You
  5. No Quarter
  6. Ten Years Gone
  7. White Summer/Black Mountain Side
  8. Kashmir
  9. Achille's Last Stand
  10. Trampled Underfoot (encore)

This setlist would have hit all the high points of most shows from 77.  All new and resurrected songs (SIBLY from 73 and WS/BMS from 70) are included, while the guitar solo and Moby Dick are removed.  Trampled Underfoot, which they only played about half the time, is thus made into an encore.  After Earls Court, the acoustic set is saved for special occasions (perhaps the six nights at LA Forum for the 77 tour.)  Most importantly, the set is just over an hour and a half to start the year, and still under two hours by the time they get to Oakland.  When I listen to boots from 77, this is usually how I arrange the tracks and I feel it really improves the experience.

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2 hours ago, ArmsofAtlas1977 said:

Interesting discussion!  In my opinion, the "peak" ended with the recording of Physical Graffiti.  Although Plant's voice was deteriorating from late 1970 onward, the other members' live presence just kept getting stronger and stronger until they took there first major break following the NA 1973 tour.  John Paul Jones nearly left the group after that, but fortunately they stayed together and finished recording Physical Graffiti in early 1974.

There was a substantial change in the group's output after that.  Yes, although there would be occasional excellence all the way to the end, it was obvious that the floor had dropped out.  The energy was often sluggish, the improvisations were frequently meandering instead of invigorating, and the albums went from being mostly hits to mostly filler.  There were definitely enough amazing accomplishments after the recording of Physical Graffiti that you'd never, ever catch me saying the band should have split up....MSG, Vancouver and Seattle in 75, Achille's Last Stand and Nobody's Fault but Mine, 28 April, 30 May and the LA shows in 77, In the Evening, All My Love, Fool in the Rain and I'm Gonna Crawl, the second night at Copenhagen and the first night of Knebworth, and back to back nights in Zurich and Frankfurt in 1980; but it's obvious something changed during those two years they rested from touring, and I think it's important to recognize that the 1975 tour was, without a doubt, past their peak.

People usually talk about the horrible things that happened to the band being the reason it ended.  I disagree.  Car accidents and death of loved ones are things every group faces.  What was really killing the band before Bonham's death was their lack of self-control when it came to performances.  Especially following the 1975 tour and Earls Court, someone should have sat the group down and talked about reeling things in a bit.  Most of the reason Plant and Bonham would go on to hate touring is that they were needlessly exhausting.  Had they followed the parameters Plant eventually forced for the 1980 tour from the beginning (less than one month at a time, no more than two shows in a row, and no shows over two hours long), I believe they would have toured more and been more productive overall in their later years.  Hell, Plant might even have saved his voice.

This is all hindsight, of course, and Zeppelin were pioneers.  There was no one around to tell them about the dangers of doing such long shows and long tours because no one had ever done it before.  Still, I can't help but feel that someone on the business side of things could have helped the band in this regard.

For what it's worth, I've spent some time going over the 1977 tour and think I've nailed what the setlist should have been.

  1. Sick Again
  2. Nobody's Fault but Mine
  3. In My Time of Dying
  4. Since I've Been Loving You
  5. No Quarter
  6. Ten Years Gone
  7. White Summer/Black Mountain Side
  8. Kashmir
  9. Achille's Last Stand
  10. Trampled Underfoot (encore)

This setlist would have hit all the high points of most shows from 77.  All new and resurrected songs (SIBLY from 73 and WS/BMS from 70) are included, while the guitar solo and Moby Dick are removed.  Trampled Underfoot, which they only played about half the time, is thus made into an encore.  After Earls Court, the acoustic set is saved for special occasions (perhaps the six nights at LA Forum for the 77 tour.)  Most importantly, the set is just over an hour and a half to start the year, and still under two hours by the time they get to Oakland.  When I listen to boots from 77, this is usually how I arrange the tracks and I feel it really improves the experience.

Not bad, I must say however for Sick Again to work as the opening song I think it would have to include the "intro riff" found on the album. I think starting out the concert with Sick Again the way they did in 79  would not have been the best way to open the show.  However, there is a reason that they hardly ever left out STH and WLL, I don't think the fans would have been all that happy without those two

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7 hours ago, blooze said:

Not bad, I must say however for Sick Again to work as the opening song I think it would have to include the "intro riff" found on the album. I think starting out the concert with Sick Again the way they did in 79  would not have been the best way to open the show.  However, there is a reason that they hardly ever left out STH and WLL, I don't think the fans would have been all that happy without those two

Did I read this wrong but in 1979, as in 1977, the band started with The Song Remains The Same. In 1980 it was A Train Kept A Rollin' One bit I would easily leave out is Black Mountain Side/White Summer. It was the one thing at Knebworth that didn't work. Though it a was a good time to go for a slash or roll a joint !

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15 hours ago, ArmsofAtlas1977 said:

People usually talk about the horrible things that happened to the band being the reason it ended.  I disagree.  Car accidents and death of loved ones are things every group faces.  What was really killing the band before Bonham's death was their lack of self-control when it came to performances.  Especially following the 1975 tour and Earls Court, someone should have sat the group down and talked about reeling things in a bit.  Most of the reason Plant and Bonham would go on to hate touring is that they were needlessly exhausting.  Had they followed the parameters Plant eventually forced for the 1980 tour from the beginning (less than one month at a time, no more than two shows in a row, and no shows over two hours long), I believe they would have toured more and been more productive overall in their later years.  Hell, Plant might even have saved his voice.

This is all hindsight, of course, and Zeppelin were pioneers.  There was no one around to tell them about the dangers of doing such long shows and long tours because no one had ever done it before.  Still, I can't help but feel that someone on the business side of things could have helped the band in this regard.

Both Plant and Bonham started to dislike touring because it kept them away from their families for long stretches... that's why, the general exhaustion from long shows never seemed to enter the equation, it was always a family thing, as I understand it.  And for Bonham, the temptations of the road brought out a side of him he hated, he supposedly once tearfully begged to go home from a tour because of that.

And personally speaking, I love  the three-hour-plus shows (when they worked); the whole vibrancy of live Zeppelin was the experimentation and improvisation, that it could go anywhere it wanted, and it might or might not bear musical fruit... the shows in 1979-80 were different by necessity (the changing musical landscape) and by choice (Page's 'cut the waffle' mantra), and they certainly had their shining moments, but I've always thought they lost something after '77 that they never got back again, something was missing after that and I'm not sure what it is... maybe the arrogance, bravado, and swagger of youth had been thoroughly knocked out of them by successive tragedies and rampant drug use, I don't know...

I agree that 1973 was their live consistent peak, that's when everything and everyone was still firing on all cylinders and they had five years' worth of momentum behind them, they were just unstoppable on that tour... glad we got an official record of it, despite it's flaws (hope we can say the same about Earl's Court sometime in the future).

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Easily Earls Court the Physical Graffiti era, if you can find a copy of the entire show, you'll be glad you did. Also, don't listen to a word that fiction writer Stephen Davis says.

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6 hours ago, chillumpuffer said:

Did I read this wrong but in 1979, as in 1977, the band started with The Song Remains The Same. In 1980 it was A Train Kept A Rollin' One bit I would easily leave out is Black Mountain Side/White Summer. It was the one thing at Knebworth that didn't work. Though it a was a good time to go for a slash or roll a joint !

No by that I meant the way that they started the individual song 'Sick Again', not the whole show

 

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On 1/30/2016 at 5:52 PM, ArmsofAtlas1977 said:

Nutrocker is someone who listens as much as I do, so it's no surprise to me he's singled out the best nights of 1975 and 1979 (second nights of Seattle and Copenhagen respectively.)  This is the conclusion anyone who bothers to explore the less-popular recordings is going to arrive at, because the fact is you won't want to keep listening to four hours of Earls Court when you know the time would be better spent with Seattle.

 

That's exactly how I am. I'm not gonna lie- I haven't listened to any of the Earl's Court gigs in years, probably. I find them extremely tedious (I won't go so far as to call them 'boring') and by the time "Dazed And Confused" rolls round it's almost like an endurance contest at that point. I know that is a minority opinion for sure. If I actually have the luxury of having three, three and a half hours at my disposal to listen to a Zeppelin show if I'm in a '75 mood I'm gonna bust out Seattle, Vancouver, Baton Rouge or one of the Chicago gigs. 

On 1/30/2016 at 9:14 PM, IpMan said:

I may be going out on a limb here but I think several of the Europe 80' shows were pretty damn good as well. Yes, the second Copenhagen gig was excellent but was not Jimmy's last great performance in Zep, not IMO.

Also, as far as 77' is concerned, with as much love as the LA run gets, I feel the NY run is even better. Snow jobs 75' is my go to for 75' followed by the Seattle & LA run.

I have to be honest: for me when it comes to Jimmy's last GREAT Zeppelin performance -as in playing consistently well with minimal fuckups for the entire gig- you'd have to go back to 1973, if not earlier. Starting with '75 Page was just too fuckin' erratic on stage. As good as the July 24 '79 Copenhagen show is, it ain't perfect by any means. 

I do agree that the 1977 New York shows were better than the LA shows (sorry, Strider! :lol: ) if for no other reason but in LA Zeppelin were more focused on showing off for their friends than simply playing the damned gig. Myself, I listen to the June 10th and 11th New York shows way more often than any of the LA shows.

On 1/30/2016 at 2:34 PM, renounce said:

Badgeholders is an exceptional show and holds up against any other standout show in their career; 3 hours of thundering, intense, high energy Zeppelin, with all 4 members on great form.

Except for JPJ's malfunction Mellotron on "Kashmir" and Page's patch cord on "Trampled Under Foot", of course...the technical issues they were having on the night kind of mars the overall performance for me. That and I've heard the goddamn show so many times over the years I admit I am kind of sick of it :lol: 

On 1/31/2016 at 3:52 PM, ArmsofAtlas1977 said:

For what it's worth, I've spent some time going over the 1977 tour and think I've nailed what the setlist should have been.

  1. Sick Again
  2. Nobody's Fault but Mine
  3. In My Time of Dying
  4. Since I've Been Loving You
  5. No Quarter
  6. Ten Years Gone
  7. White Summer/Black Mountain Side
  8. Kashmir
  9. Achille's Last Stand
  10. Trampled Underfoot (encore)

This setlist would have hit all the high points of most shows from 77.  All new and resurrected songs (SIBLY from 73 and WS/BMS from 70) are included, while the guitar solo and Moby Dick are removed.  Trampled Underfoot, which they only played about half the time, is thus made into an encore.  After Earls Court, the acoustic set is saved for special occasions (perhaps the six nights at LA Forum for the 77 tour.)  Most importantly, the set is just over an hour and a half to start the year, and still under two hours by the time they get to Oakland.  When I listen to boots from 77, this is usually how I arrange the tracks and I feel it really improves the experience.

I'd keep "The Song Remains The Same" as the opener, seguing into "The Rover intro/Sick Again", but otherwise save for "White Summer/Black Mountain Side" you've pretty much nailed how I listen to a '77 show when I don't have time for a full performance (except I do toss in "Moby Dick" as well). 

22 hours ago, chillumpuffer said:

I would easily leave out is Black Mountain Side/White Summer. It was the one thing at Knebworth that didn't work. Though it a was a good time to go for a slash or roll a joint !

I don't think that was an issue that didn't work just at Knebworth. "White Summer/Black Mountain Side" IMO should have stayed retired in 1970.

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