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I disagree with you on all points except the production. Albini was a bad choice for them (frankly, he's a bad choice period).

But did they need pristine production on this... maybe -most high, but for me it sounds good. Hey look, they got the drum sound on -when the levee breaks, the same way, recording in a big house....the songs are the songs and they should stand on their own.

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But did they need pristine production on this... maybe -most high, but for me it sounds good. Hey look, they got the drum sound on -when the levee breaks, the same way, recording in a big house....the songs are the songs and they should stand on their own.

I don't agree, the sound is overly trebley and there isn't enough bottom end. Albini has always recorded like this, and for whatever reason he has grown a following. I think he's a shitty producer, and WIC is evidence of this.

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I don't agree, the sound is overly trebley and there isn't enough bottom end. Albini has always recorded like this, and for whatever reason he has grown a following. I think he's a shitty producer, and WIC is evidence of this.

But whether it was experimental or whatever...can't you picture these songs in a different production and would it really matter? Its a recording....the worst old recordings of good music still stand up. Its definately nothing like a -zeppelin recording and i guess they wanted that, and good too, because its a record with this group... i don't think they over thought it, just did it.

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steve? didn't he do nirvana's in uttero? sounds like maybe. anyways you can always twiddle with your tone control knobs or open the cd up in an editor and add back the frequencies you feel are missing.

the production may not be up to every one's liking but production alone doesn't break or make songs(unless your collage buddy is doing it for you in his basement). zeppelin 2 has far more production problems than this would dream of having. at least it doesn't distort in places and every instrument isn't over driven on the master. when i was a kid and bought 2 on tape i returned it twice thinking it was defective. i realized later it was just the way it was supposed to sound. still an awsome album of corse as is walking into clarksdale. maybe if it had whole lotta love part two we wouldn't be having this discussion.. lol maybe jimmy can go back into the studio and ad a therimen (sp?) and people will be happy and give him the credit he deserves for the beautiful passages already there. get back in the echo chamber robert!!

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steve? didn't he do nirvana's in uttero? sounds like maybe. anyways you can always twiddle with your tone control knobs or open the cd up in an editor and add back the frequencies you feel are missing.

He did and he didn't. The album's mixes were mostly reworked after Albini was done fucking them up. The singles off the album were all redone. You can still find Albini's mix floating around if you're interested in a listen, but don't pay much for it, it's not very good.

the production may not be up to every one's liking but production alone doesn't break or make songs(unless your collage buddy is doing it for you in his basement).

Albini is that college buddy in his basement (literally, ask Urge Overkill).

Per Wiki:

Katruud and Roeser met at Northwestern University in 1985. They formed Urge Overkill (getting the name from a phrase in the lyrics of the Parliament song "Funkentelechy") in Chicago, with drummer Pat Byrne, and released an EP, Strange, I..., on Ruthless records produced by Katruud's roommate, Steve Albini. A full length album, Jesus Urge Superstar, soon followed, again produced by Albini, and with Kriss Bataille taking over the drums. These two releases showcased a noise-rock sound common to other Chicago acts of the period.

zeppelin 2 has far more production problems than this would dream of having. at least it doesn't distort in places and every instrument isn't over driven on the master. when i was a kid and bought 2 on tape i returned it twice thinking it was defective. i realized later it was just the way it was supposed to sound. still an awsome album of corse as is walking into clarksdale. maybe if it had whole lotta love part two we wouldn't be having this discussion.. lol maybe jimmy can go back into the studio and ad a therimen (sp?) and people will be happy and give him the credit he deserves for the beautiful passages already there. get back in the echo chamber robert!!

The production on II by Eddie Kramer is far superior to Albini's job on WIC or In Utero.

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But whether it was experimental or whatever...can't you picture these songs in a different production and would it really matter? Its a recording....the worst old recordings of good music still stand up. Its definately nothing like a -zeppelin recording and i guess they wanted that, and good too, because its a record with this group... i don't think they over thought it, just did it.

I can definitely image the songs with a different production. Albini's production styles allows the songs to blur together, and while some people like this it was not to the advantage of Page and Plant on WIC. If those songs were better treated you would have had more standout tracks than just Most High and Shining In The Light.

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Walking into Clarksdale was a pretty good album. I think one of the things that detracted from it is that Robert Told Page to keep it simple so the songs were not developed in the Zeppelin Fashion.

In other words Page wasn't aloud to be himself.

Also most of the songs from the album where written during the No Quarter era.

Apparently the whole thing traumatized Plant so much that he suffered writers block all the way til the Mighty Rearranger album.

on The Tour in 1998, thought it was the Songs off of Clarksdale that shined the most when played Live.

I remember after watching the expression on Plants face after they finished one of the new songs, and no one really seemed to care.

Yes, live no one could stop Jimmy from being himself, and the songs from the album took on new life.

They were very good live. The album had major drawbacks they both admit. Albini was a cluster fuck IMO.

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If those songs were better treated you would have had more standout tracks than just Most High and Shining In The Light.

Blue Train was kind of going into a Rain Song or Midnight Moonlight direction but because it was all apparently done in one pass with one guitar it sounds like a live demo.

Even Led Zeppelin I which was recorded in what, 30 hours?, has far richer layers to it.

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I think Clarksdale was a very good album and had some great tracks like Most High, Blue Train, and Shining In The light. It was very represenitive of where P/P were at that time. I also really like Wonderful One from No Quarter. It's unfair to compare that album to Zeppelin though. John Bonham and John Paul Jones don't recieve nearly enough credit for what they brought to Zeppelin in the studio even if Jimmy and Robert got most of the songwriting credit.

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John Bonham and John Paul Jones don't recieve nearly enough credit for what they brought to Zeppelin in the studio even if Jimmy and Robert got most of the songwriting credit.

I agree. A new album issued in the name Led Zeppelin with Page, Plant, Jones, and yes, Bonham, would have tremendous potential. If that's something they're considering, then we could be in for something very special.

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zep 1 & 3 sound far better than 2 . 2 sounds like it was recorded in the red then compressed then ran through a low pass filter. the cymbals and snare re recorded hi passed and timed delayed in left and right channels dubbed over top the mess, and a smillied eq setting applied between rolling joints with hanger-ons. mike millard could have almost done better from the parking lot. have to give eddie his due though, anyone who can make kiss multi millionaire successes must be in league with something beyond our mortal comprehension. he did do a great job with hendrix though.

back to w.i.c .. i think most detractors simply do not like the songs themselves and are using albini as a cough button. yeah the production could have been a lot less monotonous and thr frequency range broadened, but as it is it can't be blamed for ruining an album. the real problem is people wanted whole lotta love 2. that's my take on it...

i do hope robert and gang go into the studio together. but unfortunately they probably feel it's pointless (pearls cast to swine).

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A new album is what I need. Get those creative juices flowing! According to Jimmy, he's already got some ideas. And Bob would be able to move forward without feeling like he's re-living the past. I believe in them. Walking into Clarksdale was good. Not consistantly great but hey, it wasn't Zeppelin. In other words, there is something in the name. When the four of them get together, they'll come up with great stuff. How can they not after the energy of the O2 performance?! In any event, there has been something significant missing from rock music for the past 28 years. If Zep were to reform as a unit...the whole is greater than the sum of its parts...the world would be a better place.

A new album?

Nah. I wouldn't have a clue how they'd approach it. It would have to be really good, and by good, I don't mean having the approval of uncritical Zeppelin fans, I mean that it would have to stand the test of time.

I can't imagine how difficult this would be. If they followed the 70's theme of their existing catalogue, it just wouldn't work. A new album would have to be completely contemporary without replicating the sound of rock music done to death over the last 20 years-which quite frankly, would be boring.

It could be a little blue grassy or country, it could be a little fusion but not sub-standard rock. No way!

This would be a very difficult undertaking indeed!!

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It would be odd if they toured without new material. Jimmy said a few years ago when the question of touring was raised in relation to HTWWW and the dvd that he thought it wouldn't be right to tour on 30+ -year-old material and that he'd be pretty "scathing" if another band did. Plus he's mentioned the possibility of writing with LZ several times now--there's a great little interview here from bbc online where he says they'd have had two albums done by now if he hadn't broken his finger.

Whenever Page and Plant collaborate it's magical (I happen to love WIC and NQ), so with the addition of Jason and Jonesey, I'm sure we'll be in for something truly cosmic.

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It would be odd if they toured without new material.

Plus, if they tour without new material, I doubt they will ever create it. There are too many irons in the fire in their solo careers that, once forged, will send them out in different directions again. Someone's going to have to make a sacrifice. Jimmy was the first to offer his material. Robert will have to sacrifice his pending solo album with T-Bone. JPJ will have to either postpone his solo album or roll the material into a new Zep album. They will have to decide where their loyalty is.

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Why do you act like they'll without a doubt come up with something great? Other than Robert they haven't really been writing much over the last 25 or so years, and in Robert's case his bandmates are as much a part of the writing if not more than Robert. And the "energy" of the reunion concert means nothing, as how you play old material does not pertain to how you will write new material.

I completely agree, and said the same thing in another thread. There is no guarantee that a new album would be any good, let alone to the standard they have already set for themselves. The responses I got were "How could it not be good, it's Zeppelin!!!" or "Jimmy wouldn't release an album that's crap." Knee jerk responses like that are just nonsense IMO.

I hate to break it to all the fanboys out there who think it's impossible for them to lay an egg but... The odds are against them putting out a new album that measures up to what they did in the 60's and 70's. And unfortunately that is the standard that they will be expected to live up to.

That's just the way it is in the music biz, there is a creative window that all the legendary songwriters go through, and it's like catching lightning in a bottle. It seems as these once brilliant songwriters get older the creative well runs dry. I have always wondered why that happens, but it does and there are plenty of examples to support my claim. I think being in the right place at the right time with the right message has allot to do with it.

If they decide to get together and do something as a band again, I think they need to try out a new song or two in a live show to gauge the reaction and go from there. The best we could hope for IMO is for one or two songs that measure up to the standard, and not an entire album. If Jimmy has some magical riffs stored away for a rainy day, now is the time to break them out.

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I think people are fogetting one of the most intergral parts of the band is dead.

Not at all. Still, Jason has a unique connection to the band as John's son and I believe he could contribute the same spirit in his own way.

The intention of this topic was not to convince anyone that Led Zep need to do a new album. I can understand the reasons why some people feel they shouldn't. If the bandmates are considering it, however, I want to lend my encouragement. It would certainly mean the band is back together, which would be a fantastic thing in my opinion. That said, I don't expect anything. I was very fortunate to be at Atlantic's 40th and the Ahmet Tribute. Still, if they had the inclination to reunite for an album and subsequent tour, I believe it would be quite magical. When it comes to Led Zep, my faith is blind.

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I like your optimism, but you're wrong.

Robert would feel like he's just revisiting the past, so you've hit a dead end there.

Why do you act like they'll without a doubt come up with something great? Other than Robert they haven't really been writing much over the last 25 or so years, and in Robert's case his bandmates are as much a part of the writing if not more than Robert. And the "energy" of the reunion concert means nothing, as how you play old material does not pertain to how you will write new material.

Once again you've committed senseless hyperbole. Zeppelin was a great addition to rock music, but music has not been lacking because there has not been new Zeppelin material. It seems you assume that had they continued on they would have continued to put out great albums, which probably would not have happened, certainly not at a rate similar to the seventies. And furthermore, the whole "greater than the sum of their parts" thing is just ridiculous. They were great because they had the talent, not because some divine force or some other entity caused these people to perform better than they were otherwise capable of. I don't know how old you are, but it seems like you are looking at the matter through kid glasses.

So you are saying that there was never a certain synergy when ever they performed? It is undeniably true that the sum was greater than the parts, although as a soloist Plant has led the way the other band members continue to produce high quality music. Jonesey's underrated contribution to the overall sound and feel of LZ should not be discarded, the man who wrote the riff to Black Dog is a supreme musician, along with Bonzo, combining to make the most solid foundation in rock music they allowed Page and Plant to perform their virtuoso performances. Trading guitar licks and groin crunchin tonsil acrobatics the pair fronted up the best rock act in history and helped define an era. The band as a whole set the bench mark. I put my kid glasses down 25 years ago and swapped them for a record collection bigger than your ego! I think I know a fair bit about music and am qualified to advise you to take the shit out of your ears and accept that synergy exists, it most certainly did with LZ.

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I really hope they don't do a new album. It's Jimmy, Robert, Jonesy, and JASON Bonham. I'm sorry, but even though it's as close as it'll ever be, its not Led Zeppelin all the way.

I think people are fogetting one of the most intergral parts of the band is dead.

I kind of agree. But I am a father and I can imagine Bonzo looking down on Jason playing with LZ and feeling more proud than any father could be. He is undeniably the best drummer ever to hold a set of sticks but I think that as a father this is what he would have wanted.

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I completely agree, and said the same thing in another thread. There is no guarantee that a new album would be any good, let alone to the standard they have already set for themselves. The responses I got were "How could it not be good, it's Zeppelin!!!" or "Jimmy wouldn't release an album that's crap." Knee jerk responses like that are just nonsense IMO.

I hate to break it to all the fanboys out there who think it's impossible for them to lay an egg but... The odds are against them putting out a new album that measures up to what they did in the 60's and 70's. And unfortunately that is the standard that they will be expected to live up to.

That's just the way it is in the music biz, there is a creative window that all the legendary songwriters go through, and it's like catching lightning in a bottle. It seems as these once brilliant songwriters get older the creative well runs dry. I have always wondered why that happens, but it does and there are plenty of examples to support my claim. I think being in the right place at the right time with the right message has allot to do with it.

If they decide to get together and do something as a band again, I think they need to try out a new song or two in a live show to gauge the reaction and go from there. The best we could hope for IMO is for one or two songs that measure up to the standard, and not an entire album. If Jimmy has some magical riffs stored away for a rainy day, now is the time to break them out.

I bet my nuts that if they do something new it will be as if they haven't been away. RP is enjoying a creative phase in his career, he acknowledge this in a recent interview. Put Jonesy, Page and Plant togther, add a bit of Bonham inheritance and you're as close ot LZ as you can get. A certain amount of unused material will be kicking about - a couple of reworked blues and folk standards and maybe a couple of average songs and there's 10 tracks to get real excited about. I recall every album having my favourites and not so favourites, I can't listen to Bonzo's montraux (I think the postumous nature of it doesn't help), D'erMaker is not a great song. Actually - I think my argument fails a bit here! I've ran out of songs I don't like - probably the shortest list I've ever done. Over recent years it could be said that some songs haven't been up to scratch but we're forgetting that the raw energy shown in the 70's is back with a new found vigour. If the O2 performance is the new benchmark nothing short of great is what I'm looking forward to. Mind you I'm so starved of decent new music, I struggle to get into the new brand of LZ wannabes and 21st century rock. I guess I would listen to 2 hours of them talking to each other with excitement.

ROCK ON LZ, give us what we need, give the music world what it needs.

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I don't know, I'd be afraid that it wouldn't live up to the hype. If they did it I think JPJ would have to play a big role in the material as his recent solo material is fantastic. I'm thinking something like a Zooma/Outrider cross, some mandolin and acoustic and some heavy stuff of course. Just seems that JP has lost his desire to be creative based on his lack of new material after Zep and I really cant blame him, after all his creative output during Zep was unmatched except maybe for Bach.

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So you are saying that there was never a certain synergy when ever they performed? It is undeniably true that the sum was greater than the parts

No, that's hyperbolic bullshit. They were as good as they were because their individual talents allowed them to be so. There's no magic alchemy going on here.

Jonesey's underrated contribution to the overall sound and feel of LZ should not be discarded, the man who wrote the riff to Black Dog is a supreme musician

He is a great musician, but that's not the reason. Black Dog is a very easy riff.

I put my kid glasses down 25 years ago and swapped them for a record collection bigger than your ego!

If not surrendering to pointless exaggeration and blind fandom means having a large ego, then guilty as charged.

I think I know a fair bit about music and am qualified to advise you to take the shit out of your ears and accept that synergy exists, it most certainly did with LZ.

Well, if by synergy you mean Bonzo played the drums in time, JPJ played the bass and/or keyboards effectively, Page played the guitar well, and Plant sung and strut like a perpetual 20 year old with great results, then sure it's there. But if you think that there is some magical entity making them better only as a collective, then you're reading too many fantasy novels.

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I think a new Led Zeppelin album would be great. Obviously it's going to be different to any of the bands earlier work, but both Plant and Jones have released some interesting material in recent years.

I truly think these guys are more than capable of making an album that sounds contemporary, yet will sit comfortably alongside previous material.

In their heyday, they were a band that took risks by branching out and dabbling in other musical genres. Plants Might ReArranger album followed the same blueprint, and in it he delivered one of his best collections in years. Even Raising Sand shows a willingness to embrace new ideas and try new things.

With these guys anything is possible.

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No, that's hyperbolic bullshit. They were as good as they were because their individual talents allowed them to be so. There's no magic alchemy going on here.

Well, if by synergy you mean Bonzo played the drums in time, JPJ played the bass and/or keyboards effectively, Page played the guitar well, and Plant sung and strut like a perpetual 20 year old with great results, then sure it's there. But if you think that there is some magical entity making them better only as a collective, then you're reading too many fantasy novels.

*restraining self from litany of cursing* Jimmy himself has said as much as this on many occasions, so I'm sure I don't know what you mean by "fantasy novels." And I hate to break it to you, but he's right and you're just plain wrong. Why are you even here if this is what you think?

And could everyone else piss off with the negativity about a new album? Cheers.

Edited by AllisonAdler
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