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Phil Collins says he's not the one to blame for Zeppelin's Live Aid Performance


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6 hours ago, IpMan said:

 The man was everywhere in the 80's once In The Air Tonight went apeshit Collins was crapping out gold nugget after gold nugget for the decade. Guy was on Miami Vice, several movies, playing with almost everyone, and, if John Lennon was alive in 85' you know damn well JC would have pulled out the stops for a Beatles reunion, just so he could sit in with Ringo and fuck up their set too.

Ha, could not help myself.

A mate who is a drummer said that in his opinion, that drum break on In The Air Tonight made a rod for Collins' back. It encouraged the crappy gated reverb sound that turned so many of his later records into a "it all sounds the same" cliche. He actually believes that Collins is a great and versatile player (referring to the 70s prog stuff that others on here have referenced), but that he painted himself into a corner with In the Air Tonight. In the same way that bands can be sterotyped according to their best known song when it's completely unrepresentative of their overall output (e.g. REM Shiny Happy People, Blur Country House)

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11 hours ago, Boleskinner said:

 

Yeah, I can imagine when you played the RAH and listened back you picked up on every mistake you made ;-) It most be hard playing at your perfect level.

I thought Jimmy's playing at the ARMS at the RAH, apart from points in STH, were superb. Loved Prelude especially. At Live Aid he was pretty decent as well and he played some good licks in WLL, inter-playing with Plant.  

At times I've been the biggest critic of Page on here, but to say his playing on the 80 tour was "Really creepy stuff for everyone who plays more than 3 chords on a guitar." is just completely disrespectful and over the top.

I'm not talking about "perfect level" or something like that. But I expect a certain level from a player when I pay big money to see him play. Some of Page's playing was rather disrespectful towards the paying audience. At this time he had been a professional guitar player for more than 20 years and has played 1000+ gigs. So I don't think "Playing the Albert hall" was a huge factor for his bad playing.

I began to play guitar after hearing Jimmy play and I studied his style extensively. His playing went downwards drastically after he became a drug addict.

Well if you think he played superb during ARMS and Live Aid we have a different taste in what great guitar playing is.

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6 hours ago, Amstel said:

Speed?  Fuck no!  Look, many so called experts believe Page was always sloppy and that is not the case!  There is something to be said for tone.  Page had a tone that may have sounded like he was sloppy, and that was not the case!  That man shredded up to 75'.   He didn't get the nickname "magic fingers" for nothing.  And tell me, if one is truly sloppy it would be evident while playing an accoustic guitar.  Btw, SRV is my third favorite player, and he was messed up on heroin as well.  Booed off the field at Yankees Satdium while trying to play the Star Spangled Banner.  Does that make SRV unqualified as a guitar player?  Not at all.  Just a low point he eventually conquered.

SRV was always a much cleaner player than Page (playing wise ;) ). He never missed a note in the concerts that I heard. There are players like Page or the Stones guys who cannot play on drugs/alc  and there are others that can, like Clapton, SRV or Hendrix.

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On October 26, 2016 at 5:09 PM, StringBender said:

 

Sidenote, I recall being in high school and the biggest Zephead in the world at the time and could not wait to see them on stage. Its easy to look back now with a critical eye, but for those of us who watched it let's be honest and admit that it was totally awesome at the time. Flanger and all. 

^ This.  

The performance sounded better on the radio.  The level of excitement was paramount when they were announced to be taking the stage.  It was a great moment and still makes the hair on my arms stand up when they were announced by Collins.  Crazy how both Live Aid and Atlantic Records reunions were severely plagued by sound issues - monitors, mixing, etc.  The spirit and will of the performance is what I always remember first about Live Aid.   

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4 hours ago, the-ocean87 said:

SRV was always a much cleaner player than Page (playing wise ;) ). He never missed a note in the concerts that I heard. There are players like Page or the Stones guys who cannot play on drugs/alc  and there are others that can, like Clapton, SRV or Hendrix.

Actually, Clapton could not play while high, he completely dropped out of the music scene for several years in the early-70's due to his heroin addiction and even had his share of "tempe" moments. There were a couple of gigs he played where he wound up sprawled out on the stage mumbling to himself and had to be carried off, one was the Concert for Bangladesh in 72'.

Regarding Hendrix, his drug use is mostly myth, he was not a heavy drug user. Jimi mainly smoked some herb and dropped the occasional acid from time to time but when he played he was usually sober. The exception to this was that by the last year of his life he was using a large dose of sleeping pills to go to sleep, but on the whole he was not a big drug user.

SRV I really don't know much about. I am in the minority here that I was not a big fan of his playing. I respected the man as a player, but I hated his tone and most of his songs sounded the same, he was a one trick pony IMO. Funny thing is when I found out he used heavy gauge stings on his Strat I was amazed as I would have thought he would have had a beefier tone as a result, but his tone was just weak and thin to my ears. Again, a great player. In regard to blues playing, Ernie Isley is one of my favorites.

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I had a tape of this that I recorded off the radio from the live simulcast on WBCN Boston MA USA. The stereo mix for fm was pretty good, Compared to what is a good question to ask. Compared to "Sea of Love" and "Little by Little" this was sounding pretty rockin.

The Les Paul was out, no B-string bender, and Page was bending notes up, making them cry and shake with vibrato. He was playing Zeppelin style and it was sweet for not being Firm style.

Honorable mention goes to the lead guitar intro to WLL which I loved and listened to over and over and over.. so good it gets some duck-face from Robert., it's off to a good start, and then the drums come in too early, spooking Bob and Jim.

For me the energy is back by the end of WLL, and even Jonesy can be observed rocking out, fists pumping in time from the crowd. Good deal! Lots of energy considering rock energy was absent from commercial rock of the day.

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17 minutes ago, IpMan said:

SRV I really don't know much about. I am in the minority here that I was not a big fan of his playing. I respected the man as a player, but I hated his tone and most of his songs sounded the same, he was a one trick pony IMO. Funny thing is when I found out he used heavy gauge stings on his Strat I was amazed as I would have thought he would have had a beefier tone as a result, but his tone was just weak and thin to my ears. Again, a great player. In regard to blues playing, Ernie Isley is one of my favorites.

Pretty obvious that you "really don't know much about" SRV because there is no one in the history of blues guitar who had Stevie's tone nor anyone ever will. 

Sorry off topic....

 

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10 minutes ago, StringBender said:

Pretty obvious that you "really don't know much about" SRV because there is no one in the history of blues guitar who had Stevie's tone nor anyone ever will. 

Sorry off topic....

 

Yeah, I agree. He had everything: Feeling, technique and groove. Also one of the best improvisers to ever pick up a guitar!

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53 minutes ago, sixpense said:

Albert King, B.B. King and Jimi Hendrix are rolling over in their graves.............

Nah .. I think they would all wholeheartedly agree.. He was "one of the best".    

I wasn't a big SRV fan ... too bluesy .. tone was too clean etc..  till I saw him (on tv) play a solo that just knocked me out. He had just gotten clean and went into a little preachy thing about the dangers of using, then BAM!! So much tone, passion and feeling straight from the heart and guts.. He was just incredible.. 

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15 hours ago, the-ocean87 said:

I'm not talking about "perfect level" or something like that. But I expect a certain level from a player when I pay big money to see him play. Some of Page's playing was rather disrespectful towards the paying audience. At this time he had been a professional guitar player for more than 20 years and has played 1000+ gigs. So I don't think "Playing the Albert hall" was a huge factor for his bad playing.

I began to play guitar after hearing Jimmy play and I studied his style extensively. His playing went downwards drastically after he became a drug addict.

Well if you think he played superb during ARMS and Live Aid we have a different taste in what great guitar playing is.

I agree his playing was never the same after the drugs, but to say that his performance on the 80 tour was "Really creepy stuff for everyone who plays more than 3 chords on a guitar." is, IMO, way over the top. But we'll agree to disagree.

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11 hours ago, StringBender said:

Pretty obvious that you "really don't know much about" SRV because there is no one in the history of blues guitar who had Stevie's tone nor anyone ever will. 

Sorry off topic....

 

I guess you missed the whole "in the minority here" part, and I gave him credit for being an amazing guitarist...just not a big fan and again, he was a one-trick pony. BTW, I know quite a bit about SRV actually, even saw him in concert back in the day and as a musician I play a song or two of his in the set my band performs. I don't use his tone though, I have my own tone when I play which took years to develop and I am sure many people don't like it, I don't take it personal because we all have our own tastes. To each their own ya know.

I still stand by my assessment of Live Aid and , even with the flanger, Page sounded damn good. Page for some reason seems to get more shade than any other guitarists out there, even though they all had their "moments" as well. EVH...guy played more than his share of shows so fucked up Michael Anthony had to turn up his bass to cover for the train wreck performance EVH was shoveling out. Same for Clapton, and of course Tommy Bolin. Even Hendrix had his off days, every musician does, I just find it strange Page seems to be singled out more than any other.

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On October 29, 2016 at 6:52 AM, the-ocean87 said:

SRV was always a much cleaner player than Page (playing wise ;) ). He never missed a note in the concerts that I heard. There are players like Page or the Stones guys who cannot play on drugs/alc  and there are others that can, like Clapton, SRV or Hendrix.

SRV could play circles around Hendrix, Clapton, Beck and Page. He was a fucking animal who could quote every great guitarist from Albert Collins to Wes Montgomery to Albert King to Hendrix like nobody else ever. Last great guitar slinger in my book, there's been nothing like him since, other than maybe Eric Gales who can play circles around anyone thats ever picked up a guitar. But what always separates Jimmy from the rest for me (aside from his playing) was his vision of what he wanted LZ to be. I think he accomplished that in a way none others have, before or since. Also his production skills combined with his business savvy was pretty much unmatched. Last but not least was his composition. Combine that with his choosing the very best musicians (and manager) that he could find to make his vision a reality, and you have a band for the ages. And signing with Atlantic with full artistic control of his band was a masterstroke and unheard of at the time. That right there set LZ in a place none had been before, right off the bat. Jimmy was a force to be reckoned with man.

Now, can we please get back to hating on Phil Collins, its a lot more fun.:D

 

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2 hours ago, blindwillie127 said:

SRV could play circles around Hendrix, Clapton, Beck and Page. He was a fucking animal who could quote every great guitarist from Albert Collins to Wes Montgomery to Albert King to Hendrix like nobody else ever. Last great guitar slinger in my book, there's been nothing like him since, other than maybe Eric Gales who can play circles around anyone thats ever picked up a guitar. But what always separates Jimmy from the rest for me (aside from his playing) was his vision of what he wanted LZ to be. I think he accomplished that in a way none others have, before or since. Also his production skills combined with his business savvy was pretty much unmatched. Last but not least was his composition. Combine that with his choosing the very best musicians (and manager) that he could find to make his vision a reality, and you have a band for the ages. And signing with Atlantic with full artistic control of his band was a masterstroke and unheard of at the time. That right there set LZ in a place none had been before, right off the bat. Jimmy was a force to be reckoned with man.

Now, can we please get back to hating on Phil Collins, its a lot more fun.:D

 

I agree on the SRV part. Not the last great guitar slinger IMO but maybe the last one who was REALLY influential.

Yeah Page had a great  package and he got where he wanted to be. That is really something very few achive. He was a great musician but I always thought John Paul Jones had him there in every aspect. JPJ never got the fame he deserved. Always Page and Plant get all the praise but Bonzo and JPJ were way more consistent musically throughout the Zep period.

OK sorry that is a bit off topic.

Back to topic: I still think it was not Phil Collins' fault only. He became the scapecoat because Page and Plant have big egos and would never realize that a mistake was made.

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22 hours ago, the-ocean87 said:

I agree on the SRV part. Not the last great guitar slinger IMO but maybe the last one who was REALLY influential.

Yeah Page had a great  package and he got where he wanted to be. That is really something very few achive. He was a great musician but I always thought John Paul Jones had him there in every aspect. JPJ never got the fame he deserved. Always Page and Plant get all the praise but Bonzo and JPJ were way more consistent musically throughout the Zep period.

OK sorry that is a bit off topic.

Back to topic: I still think it was not Phil Collins' fault only. He became the scapecoat because Page and Plant have big egos and would never realize that a mistake was made.

"JPJ never got the fame he deserved". Yes no doubt JPJ would have been much more famous if that creepy Jimmy Page hadn't gotten in his way.:lol:

Back on topic: "Page & Plant Have big egos and can't admit mistakes". Ok, your entitled to your opinion, but Phil Collins is still a whiny little bitch.

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I think JPJ got exactly what he wanted..

He was and is a highly respected musician from the biggest band in the world.. that could also walk the streets and go sightseeing for the most part un-noticed.

If he wanted more attention and fame, he wouldn't have changed his appearance every tour and he would have been more of a show hog on stage..

He even said he changed his appearance on purpose so he could go about his business.  

He has the best of both worlds.. Fame and fortune, plus stability and privacy..

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Back to Live Aid watched it again for the first time in years and it was exactly as I remembered. It was what it was, an emotional performance and a thrill for us fans to see them together for the first time since Bonzo died. They enjoyed it as well.  Just watch Roberts expression at the end when the crowd sings the last line to Stairway. You can tell he dug it. 

No it wasn't perfect but who cares. Have you listened to most of 77 and 80 lately? 

 

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On 10/29/2016 at 11:54 PM, IpMan said:

I guess you missed the whole "in the minority here" part, and I gave him credit for being an amazing guitarist...just not a big fan and again, he was a one-trick pony. BTW, I know quite a bit about SRV actually, even saw him in concert back in the day and as a musician I play a song or two of his in the set my band performs. I don't use his tone though, I have my own tone when I play which took years to develop and I am sure many people don't like it, I don't take it personal because we all have our own tastes. To each their own ya know.

I still stand by my assessment of Live Aid and , even with the flanger, Page sounded damn good. Page for some reason seems to get more shade than any other guitarists out there, even though they all had their "moments" as well. EVH...guy played more than his share of shows so fucked up Michael Anthony had to turn up his bass to cover for the train wreck performance EVH was shoveling out. Same for Clapton, and of course Tommy Bolin. Even Hendrix had his off days, every musician does, I just find it strange Page seems to be singled out more than any other.

What was SRV's one trick? Playing Blues? Blues which was a melting pot of Texas, Chicago and Delta influences with Wes Montgomery Jazz stylings and Jimi Hendrix Rock innovations? He did get the nod from B.B. King, Albert King, Albert Collins, Buddy Guy, Lonnie Mack and Eric Clapton who once referred to him as an open channel. So I guess it's good to know that a nobody in a bar band who uses a tone that apparently many don't enjoy hears SRV as one dimensional.

The Live Aid performance was ragged but featured that unmistakable Jimmy Page spirit which fans who can see past the imperfections relish. Drugs and drama aside, it's clear Page's successes performing live have been in big part due to working with drummers he handpicks and establishes a musical relationship with.  Which is something that didn't happen at Live Aid.

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12 hours ago, Badgeholder Still said:

What was SRV's one trick? Playing Blues? Blues which was a melting pot of Texas, Chicago and Delta influences with Wes Montgomery Jazz stylings and Jimi Hendrix Rock innovations? He did get the nod from B.B. King, Albert King, Albert Collins, Buddy Guy, Lonnie Mack and Eric Clapton who once referred to him as an open channel. So I guess it's good to know that a nobody in a bar band who uses a tone that apparently many don't enjoy hears SRV as one dimensional.

 

Wow, you really seem to have a problem with my opinion. I don't blast others for their opinion to likes / dislikes as we are all different. Then again you do sure seem to have some anger management issues, I mean jesus christ, lighten up, its not my fault you were born with a small dick or one leg shorter than the other or whatever your problem(s) are.

And BTW, I take offense to that last sentence as I also play bar mitzvah, Quiceneras, & jr. High School dances. So, should you ever purchase some poor woman / man from a Slovenian dating site you wish to marry, hit me up and I will be glad to entertain at your nuptials.

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23 hours ago, IpMan said:

Wow, you really seem to have a problem with my opinion. I don't blast others for their opinion to likes / dislikes as we are all different. Then again you do sure seem to have some anger management issues, I mean jesus christ, lighten up, its not my fault you were born with a small dick or one leg shorter than the other or whatever your problem(s) are.

And BTW, I take offense to that last sentence as I also play bar mitzvah, Quiceneras, & jr. High School dances. So, should you ever purchase some poor woman / man from a Slovenian dating site you wish to marry, hit me up and I will be glad to entertain at your nuptials.

I don't care much for Stevie Ray Vaughan either, great player technically but I would rather put Axis Bold as Love on anyday than one of his records.

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I haven't read the book, but browsing through it at a bookseller recently, I saw a somewhat recent picture of Phil Collins and Plant inside it.  Caption (paraphrased) has Collins calling him "Planty" and says he likes Plant's sense of humor -- and like George Harrison, is suspicious of fame and blind faith (whatever that refers to).

 

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