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Tadpole in a Jar

Dazed 'n' Confused -- Who messed up?

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i don't think any of the mistakes (and there were others...check out page's riff-playing in black dog; another one just off the top of my head - for whatever reason page wasn't playing when bonham came in with the initial drums during IMTOD) were so terribly mucked up that they should be fixed at all. if there's a dvd release, they should release the entire thing without any editing.

i doubt that would happen though because page is a perfectionist and of course plant might think that anything less than perfect might adversely affect sales of his plant/krause concert tix.

Mee-oow.

I think the same thing, they should keep it all as it was played. That's the beauty of being live and spontaneous, it makes this performance this one, and not one from "the night before." :)

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i don't think any of the mistakes (and there were others...check out page's riff-playing in black dog; another one just off the top of my head - for whatever reason page wasn't playing when bonham came in with the initial drums during IMTOD) were so terribly mucked up that they should be fixed at all. if there's a dvd release, they should release the entire thing without any editing.

i doubt that would happen though because page is a perfectionist and of course plant might think that anything less than perfect might adversely affect sales of his plant/krause concert tix.

There is no confirmation that a DVD of the 02 would come out before the Krauss tour

Wanting to fix the obvious mistakes in a release does not make Page a 'prefectionist'. See TSRTS original release, Coda, to know that Page has released sub-standard work.

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we can argue who messed up all day long and they are all valid arguements. However, I just believe that since JPJ and Jimmy were on the same page together, Jason should have been too. So one can conclude that it was his mess up, regardless of where the counting was etc.

The fact is, it happened and at least the song didnt fall completely apart (although I think after it happened they were ALL flustered and just wanted the song to be over).

I think the more important question now is: how will they rectify this if the show is released on DVD/CD? Will they omit Dazed completely? Will they overdub? Will they use the Dazed from the night before?

Zeppelin has never "overdubbed" anything live. They've edited in pieces from other performances, thats a very different thing, unlike KISS, who redid every note and drumbeat in the studio and still call it a live album.

The problem is, after the initial fuckup, the song never fully recover's from it, thats a long piece to patch with the rehearsal shoot, but I don't think there will be much choice.

I personally didn't think they should have played Dazed to begin with, but I actually thought they were doing pretty well before the trainwreck.

Edited by snapper

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Nothing will happen til next fall. Maybe then Jimmy Page can talk some sense into Plant. I hope I live to see the day when they play again. Im going to crack another Blue Moon. Cheers.

Hey! I just hope the three original members live to see the day when they play again!. :D

As far as the release of the DVD goes, I think it is a given.

It's just a question of when.

I doubt that there is anything of worth left in the "vaults" that they havent released yet.The quality of the O2 gig,and the interest in the reunion is such that it is utterly foolish to believe that it won't be released to the public at some stage.

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Still believe there won't be a DVD. :coffee:

Well, it only took *a bit over 30 years* to get RAH released...I just hope I'll live to see the day, as I did not make it to O2.

Cheers! :beer:

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Bonham got lost, very lost. You can tell just by the way Page turns around and looks at Bonham and is waiting for him to get back on track, but it really takes him a long time to get it together.

Page doesn't even bother playing the descending riff during the final verse after that,

he was rattled, no doubt.

Trainwrecking that song at that crucial turnaround must have been frightening for the band. It scares the hell out of 'me' when I watch it.

i was rite up front and page was pissed he let out a big spit on the amps

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i was rite up front and page was pissed he let out a big spit on the amps

what the hell are you on about, i was at the front and he didn't spit on the amps. :blink:

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i was rite up front and page was pissed he let out a big spit on the amps

I think you are confusing Jimmy with Mike "The Camel" Portnoy

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i was rite up front and page was pissed he let out a big spit on the amps

i was high up, but when I watch the dvd it looks to me that after the dazed mess up Page just laughed it off.

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I have to say, upon review, that Jason played it correctly, going from the first beat to the triplets. Although the transition from the outro of the solo was a bit uncertain. Jimmy kinda came out of it randomly, and thus the trainwreck. A miss cue that led to a miss cue. Sorry, Jimmy. Love ya, but your transition was a bit ambiguous. Bonzo always cue'd off of that "look", and Jason was watching for sure. Just a bad read. No one is to blame.

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I have to say, upon review, that Jason played it correctly, going from the first beat to the triplets. Although the transition from the outro of the solo was a bit uncertain. Jimmy kinda came out of it randomly, and thus the trainwreck. A miss cue that led to a miss cue. Sorry, Jimmy. Love ya, but your transition was a bit ambiguous. Bonzo always cue'd off of that "look", and Jason was watching for sure. Just a bad read. No one is to blame.

Whoops a daisy, did Jimmy Mess Up? We can forgive him can't we?

hey 'Evester' I posted on the 'Jimmy's injured hand' thread, did you see it?

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Whoops a daisy, did Jimmy Mess Up? We can forgive him can't we?

hey 'Evester' I posted on the 'Jimmy's injured hand' thread, did you see it?

I TOTALLY excuse the D&C hiccup! I've got enough boots to know it wasn't always fluid! I find it funny that people are putting the O2 under the microscope so much! "Oh look! That moment was less than perfection" Zep wasn't about perfection. It was about THE MOMENT! It was about making you shit your pants with something you'd never experienced before. Some get it. Some don't.

BTW, nice to see ya Roisin Dubh. How ya been? :beer:

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I TOTALLY excuse the D&C hiccup! I've got enough boots to know it wasn't always fluid! I find it funny that people are putting the O2 under the microscope so much! "Oh look! That moment was less than perfection" Zep wasn't about perfection. It was about THE MOMENT! It was about making you shit your pants with something you'd never experienced before. Some get it. Some don't.

BTW, nice to see ya Roisin Dubh. How ya been? :beer:

ZoSo as they say, I've managed to get my twentieth or something cold this year, been to Kent and back in the snow, in April, thinking of moving on soon, as I have no real 'friends' here...

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i love how people say "Page is a perfectionist" like in every thread-- as if it is just common knowledge.

My question: if he's that much of a perfectionist, then why did he ever release TSRTS movie?

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i love how people say "Page is a perfectionist" like in every thread-- as if it is just common knowledge.

My question: if he's that much of a perfectionist, then why did he ever release TSRTS movie?

Have you read all of Page's statements about what Zeppelin means to him? Why he feels it should be represented properly?

It's "common knowledge" to anyone who's archived his interviews.

And what's wrong with TSRTS? A testimony of a moment that he cared enough about to revisit and give a polish to using modern tech. I say kudos. Yes, I can pick it apart and bitch about the edits, but he was bound by Warner's owning the license to the video wasn't he?

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I have to say, upon review, that Jason played it correctly, going from the first beat to the triplets. Although the transition from the outro of the solo was a bit uncertain. Jimmy kinda came out of it randomly, and thus the trainwreck. A miss cue that led to a miss cue. Sorry, Jimmy. Love ya, but your transition was a bit ambiguous. Bonzo always cue'd off of that "look", and Jason was watching for sure. Just a bad read. No one is to blame.

It's interesting that Jason took the blame for this screw up in a recent interview, after initially blaming Jimmy.

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I TOTALLY excuse the D&C hiccup! I've got enough boots to know it wasn't always fluid! I find it funny that people are putting the O2 under the microscope so much! "Oh look! That moment was less than perfection" Zep wasn't about perfection. It was about THE MOMENT! It was about making you shit your pants with something you'd never experienced before. Some get it. Some don't.

BTW, nice to see ya Roisin Dubh. How ya been? :beer:

I was just watching this again and I was totally rockin' out... yeah, D & C sort of crumbled but wow, a couple of minutes out of that miraculous, amazing night is like spit in a hurricane. I love the whole vibe of it.

One thing, they have to get back together to perform if for no other reason than to go to some venues with decent acoustics. O2 just wasn't very good in terms of sound. (Or maybe it was the cell phone quality recording? :lol: )

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Have you read all of Page's statements about what Zeppelin means to him? Why he feels it should be represented properly?

It's "common knowledge" to anyone who's archived his interviews.

And what's wrong with TSRTS? A testimony of a moment that he cared enough about to revisit and give a polish to using modern tech. I say kudos. Yes, I can pick it apart and bitch about the edits, but he was bound by Warner's owning the license to the video wasn't he?

ev--

what you said is exactly whats wrong with it -- one can pick out the edits, re enactments, and mis-matches with ease. I'm just saying, clearly he loosened up on his perfectionism when this was released.

For the record I have been obsessed with TSRTS since i was like 12. I think its the best rock and roll "movie/performance". But I am just putting things into perspective here:

People say Jimmy wont release the o2 cause he's a perfectionist. I'm just saying ----- a little less than perfect Zep release from a 2007 show is a lot more excuseable than a little less than perfect Zep release from a 1973 show. And Page has released TSRTS twice (1976, 2007). The performance is great --- the film and release itself though, less than perfect.

Putting these two on the same plane, they would be similar. TSRTS: great performance, good audio visual, bad cuts, bad edits, re-enacting. O2: good performance (good for 2007 zep), better audio visual, some musical slip up, great editing. When you consider TSRTS, Page, being the perfectionist, should be able to stomach this sort of O2 release I would think. Again, he was happy to release TSRTS twice.

Edited by zep41

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Strikes me if you want a perfect version listen to an album;

However if you want a version which adapts and changes depending on feel, creativity, and how the audience reacts then go and see a live show;

Its a sad day if fans are critical because the band are not note perfect to the album?

Me I am all for improvisation and changing things on live versions , even in error - it makes every show different

otherwise 'real' music ceases to exist and they might as well turn up for a PA and mime!

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Jason said Jimmy is the one who screwed up. I don't think it was a big deal people !! It's a shame Jimmy broke his finger. That was rehearsal time shot to hell !!! To me the worst part of the show was Plant's horseshit harmonica spot in N.F.B.M. and Page's guitar sounded dead on Rock & Roll.

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Strikes me if you want a perfect version listen to an album;

However if you want a version which adapts and changes depending on feel, creativity, and how the audience reacts then go and see a live show;

Its a sad day if fans are critical because the band are not note perfect to the album?

Me I am all for improvisation and changing things on live versions , even in error - it makes every show different

otherwise 'real' music ceases to exist and they might as well turn up for a PA and mime!

here we go with one of these responses again.....................

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here we go with one of these responses again.....................

then you'll really hate this one........who cares.......Page rolling out with that laugh afterwards was just more good medicine to me......just another "adder" to a wonderful night.

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