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Tadpole in a Jar

Dazed 'n' Confused -- Who messed up?

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then you'll really hate this one........who cares.......Page rolling out with that laugh afterwards was just more good medicine to me......just another "adder" to a wonderful night.

Probably one of my favorite moments of the night. It showed that he really didn't care that they just screwed up; they've already proven themselves by that point.

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Most of those feedback issues occur when Plant isn't singing anyway, so cutting them out would be pretty simple. But any new release will get the full treatment, no doubt about that and I am sure it will be amazing. Compare Knebworth boots to the DVD release, for example.

hi everyone,i am new to this board ;)

ok i am so glad that some of you agree on this point,i was at the gig and i was so away with the event,that i did not really notice any hickups on dazed and confused,however,few months later,a dear friend got hold of the whole show on dvd from someone,it was then that i noticed after watching 02 areana gig a few times,just how very confussed,dazed and confussed was sounding,i thought i was imagining it,until i saw this page ;D

who messed up? who knows,six of one and half a dozen of the other maybe--jimmy or bonzo jr :blink::blink: perhaps it was ment to sound like that :D

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mmm yes, this is a forum is it not B)

i think you are missing the point of what i meant.

It literally irks me when someone posts the cliche'd "if you want a perfect album version then dont go to live shows and just stick to the album" response as if they are the end all to knowledge on live music. They just heard someone say that once and decided it sounded like it made sense, so its a response that just gets thrown around haphazardly. And while its a recommendation I no doubt agree with, it gets used all too often in the WRONG context. People just think it makes them sound intelligent- when in reality they probably dont know the first thing about playing rock and roll music live.

That type of response is out of line in this thread because we are simply discussing the specifics of what happened on a mess up during a crucial point of Dazed at the o2. Everybody here is more than familiar with live music --- especially the way Zep crafts their live delivery of album songs that are literally re-worked in real time on stage. We get that so thanks. We are just simply discussing what musically went wrong and resluted in the mess up.

So people should save their incredibly idiotic and irrelevant responses for othe boards where it works, because we are not buying it.

Sorry for this rant and I know it makes me sound like a lunatic, but I needed to get this off my chest.

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once again, who cares? It only adds to the Zeppelin aura.

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But this leads to a situation of

JPJ: but I was waiting for you to do your fill, Jason

JB: Well John Paul, I was waiting for you and Jimmy to play your E-D-A part

RP: I am a golden god......

In a situation like this no-one is to blame....it was just something that happened.

LMAO at the proposed Robert comment.

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(A bit OT). The boys left many a flub on their studio albums... I love it, they're human.

Here's a few that come to mind..

- Robert catching his breath at the beginning of GTC.

- Cough at the end of IMTOD.

- Airplane at the beginning of Black Country Woman.

- Phone ringing on The Ocean (1:35 to 1:45 range).

- Little mis-cue at the beginning of Tangerine.

- (This one sounds like a flub but isn't).. during the guitar solo on ITE, at 4:00, it sounds like the wheels are gonna come off, then Jimmy pulls it through (reminds me of O2 D&C).

I guess "flub" is a poor choice of words, because some are just a little extra leading/trailing tape that made it onto the albums (i.e. the counting at the beginning of Hotdog).

Edited by pezdel

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^ How about the voice overs that can be heard during Babe I'm Gonna Leave You, I later read that the tape they recorded with couldn't be fully erased and so you can hear other takes bleed into the final mix.

As far as Dazed goes, what a great jam beginning the section after the bow solo - really gets everything reved up quickly. There were some mistakes - as with any Zep show when trying to improvise so much - but remember this was the 1st time they ever performed a concert as a group. I had to tell myself that the first couple of times listening to the show. It was kinda like listening to those '69 shows again, with them trying to find each other's limit and direction. I know it's not the same but with Bonzo they had played so many shows and knew each other so well that we cannot possibly, fairly compare this show with those tours/shows.

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^ How about the voice overs that can be heard during Babe I'm Gonna Leave You, I later read that the tape they recorded with couldn't be fully erased and so you can hear other takes bleed into the final mix.

As far as Dazed goes, what a great jam beginning the section after the bow solo - really gets everything reved up quickly. There were some mistakes - as with any Zep show when trying to improvise so much - but remember this was the 1st time they ever performed a concert as a group. I had to tell myself that the first couple of times listening to the show. It was kinda like listening to those '69 shows again, with them trying to find each other's limit and direction. I know it's not the same but with Bonzo they had played so many shows and knew each other so well that we cannot possibly, fairly compare this show with those tours/shows.

I can't remember what they said caused the "Bleed Over" on Babe, but it sounded cool. About Dazed, I was glad to hear it and thought it was great. The "Flub-up" was wierd, at first I wanted to blame it on Jason, but I'll have to watch it again very closely. As far as being able to Jam and improvise on that song the way only Zep could, that takes ESP. Jason's not there yet. But looking back,how many times did Zep lose track in early Dazed, and "HMMT"? It happened. But they got it back together again only to "Amaze More".

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After watching this again, it seems that even though he had Ample opportunity to get thru it, and get out of it, Jason just wouldn't STOP so Jimmy could do the big B riff properly. That part is supposed to be Jimmy playing alone, and then the band coming back in. Yes, Zep even messed it up every once in awhile. But it is one of the most important and pleasing transitions of the song, and it has to be done properly to give that sense of satisfaction and release. That part in TSRTS is awesome. I'm a big fan of "Dazed" ESP. 75' because it has evolved to it's most complete by then. I pay close attention to all of the transitions. by 73' and again in 75' at the end of the main verses, Jimmy does the fast sequences w/ Jonesy doing the same, and then Bonham's thundering response, then Jimmy's fast soloing, then he comes out of it, goes quiet and clean w/ his "noodling" or "spanish section", and then into, San Francisco, but I like Woodstock much better. Buffalo Springfield is interesting also. My 2 "faves" are 3-11 and 5-24-75, but others are making their way into my collection that are good.

3-19, and 2-12-75. The 73' warm-up tour is the best ever Jamming, but Roberts voice is bad. And the transition into the bow solo is crazy important to me. Listen again to 3-11, and 5-24-75. The big build-up outro from the bow section is awesome. Did he start that in 73? And he used it right before Achilles. But thats why the last transition that they "flubbed" up is so important. It brings you out of all the long soloing, Jimi Hendrix section, Jimmy and Roberts call and response, and steers you back into the main theme and verses again. It reminds me of "White Summer/Black mtn side, (tension,is it ever going to end?) and the KA-BANG!!! Kashmir. And then his other soloing at the end which he did even in 69', and then the big "Finale". Another important transition/ending, with the big riffs, drumming and Roberts final fantastic scream. One of my Army Buddies who only liked a little "studio Zep" always joked that the only reason people were cheering at the end was because it was finally over. Some people just don't get it.

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I was very surprised that they did Dazed and Confused. I thought they can't do it anymore, cause they doesn't play it live after 1975. But Jimmy was absolutely amazing, i can't believe that he has this fast shredding today...WOW :blink:

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I was very surprised that they did Dazed and Confused. I thought they can't do it anymore, cause they doesn't play it live after 1975. But Jimmy was absolutely amazing, i can't believe that he has this fast shredding today...WOW

Well, they didn't play much at all after 1975 did they?! A portion of it was performed during Jimmy's solo tour in '88.

It's a showcase for his bowing solo and given it was a one off concert-length performance he just had to include it!

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Thats right, i can remember the Arizona Show 1988 where he played that. But it is not nearly as good as the O2 version. It sounded sloppy to me and he has a lot of mess ups in 1988.

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I just noticed while listening to the Kezar 1973 show they made a very similar mistake during D&C that day.

Very funny, and it also shows that it had nothing to do with Jason not being his father. :)

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It's a shame Jimmy broke his finger.

I very much doubt Jimmy ever broke his finger. If he did, he would have need much more time for it to heal that the time that actually passed. At most it would be a sprain.

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resurrecting this a bit......I like how Page covered up most of the trainwreck at least for the main chorus riff, but don't understand why he didn't trim off a bar or two when things first start to go off the rails?

It just seems odd, the timestamp that I'm talking about completely trimming out is from 8:26-8:31 where I just feel like those five seconds should be dropped as it throws the timing and feel off. At the end of these five seconds, the band gets back together and plays the E-D-A riff the correct number of times before going into the chorus riff which Page obviously went in and corrected in a way that I actually like as it's just a different feel for that chorus with the pounding toms the whole way through.

I dunno, I might go through some audio editing software to cut those five seconds, I just don't get why Pagey didn't do it because if you correct part of the mistake, why not correct the whole thing? In this case it would just be a five second cut to smooth it all out completely so that none of it ever goes out of time. Otherwise, lovely version of a song that hadn't been performed by the guys since '75 if i'm not mistaken?

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every point you make is valid

the only thing I can think of is at least for the O2 Page seems to have a "leave it alone" as much as possible tack. Otherwise, he would have gone in and moved stuff around a lot more than he did. The fact that in the mastering he was not heavy handed is astonishing to me. The opportunity to sanitize and glue it all was there and he didn't do it.

Page most likely did several cuts of the trainwreck maybe even what you are suggesting(?) and settled on what he published which is fine for me.

It's a wrestling match for me to listen with intent to enjoy rather than letting my inner studio rat rear up and bite me and ruin it for me.

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I think that he just knew that so many many many... MANY... zep fans were already too familiar with the concert and all the mistakes, that editing them our would just make it feel "not live" for a lot of them and that he would be... well... "bashed" for doing these changes. Simply said: Cos we all knew the mistake was there, he kept it there. I didnt re-listen the audience tapes ever since I saw the actual Celebration day, so I cant tell how much editing was done there... if any... my first impresion was, that something was slightly corrected cos the mistake seemed a little less noticable on the official release then it was on audience tapes... but was still there ofc.

Just my two cents.

A little offtopic: I didnt like that Jasons "I cant quit you babe" was edited out and also the speach before Kashmir was taken out for some reason... I liked it...!

I am glad that there were not really many overdubs afaik. I like the little "mistakes" that come from LIVE play. Thats what its all about. Making a mistake and musically run out of it like a master! :).

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Hello, everyone. Has anyone taken the time to compile the list of obvious changes from live performance to touched-up remastered blu ray? I don't mind the changes, I just would like to check the differences.

Thanx.

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Listening to the cd s it sounds like it was jason, but hey after the energy of playing the fast part of dazed its understandable if jason or jimmy lost place in song. They all really recovered and kept going and those were the interesting moments in 77 too, to just change gears and add to song and then getting back to the groove. Being that its said that jason brought up so many ideas from bootlegs and shows over the years, i wonder if he suggested to robert plant to add the ohm ohm singing during the bow section, like he did on that one bbc version of dazed, thats a cool effect.

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^ I dont remember the bow section in htwww specifically but will listen for it. I'm usually listening for the walters walk guitar snippet on there, where if your not paying attention will miss. yeah that lower vocal ad lib does compliment the spooky bow section well though.

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Who cares? It would'nt be a Led Zeppelin gig if there weren't any cock-ups somewhere! Surprised they did'nt make more! lol :P

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Bump.

It was Jimmy's fault, he very abruplty and haphazardly starts the 'E-D-A-E-G' riff, the first time through was complete slop. As the band leader and the one soloing, it was Jimmy's responsibility to let the others know "Okay, I'm finished", as he clearly used to do. Here are just a few clear examples:

@7:00-He lets that final chord ring out and looks back at Bonzo, indicating its time for the riff.

Same here @6:00-

and here, same as above, the feedback is a clear signal to prepare for the riff. @8:25

Edited by Sathington Willoughby

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