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gibsonfan159

Is it just me, or is Bonham absolutely dragging ass on the 5/23 EC version of Kashmir?

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I was going through the EC stuff and just happened to notice Bonzo here. It's almost as bad as San Diego 77. I'm preety sure they almost come to a complete stop a couple times.

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The first half of the song sounds so heavy due to the slowness and drums. I think it's more epic.

Jimmy misses the "Woman talkin to ya!" lead into the break, then comes in off beat but they seem to recover ok.

Overall it doesn't sound that bad. I'd love to hear a nice clear version. The drums are so menacing at this pace.

Edited by rm2551

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I really like the super slow pace because as RM stated it sounds menacing and heavy as hell. Also, if you listen to Bonham you can tell this is not him slogging, it is intentional. He is doing these very fast fills in between the end of measure beats which if he we slogging he would not be doing.

Edited by IpMan

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I think he was just experimenting with a new tempo or something. Like IpMan said, he's doing fast fills all over the place. In fact, this night is probably the most experimental out of all five Earls Court shows. Page switches to using a Strat for OTHAFA and NQ (the latter being the longest out of the five shows). Perhaps given how it was midway through the run, the band wanted to just stretch things out a bit more and get out of their comfort zone.

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I dont know about the 23rd but the drum solo at the end of RAR on the 24th is awful and watching it makes it worse. .

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21 minutes ago, Bozoso73 said:

I dont know about the 23rd but the drum solo at the end of RAR on the 24th is awful and watching it makes it worse. .

I've said it before and I'll say it again: the 24th is, IMO, one of the most overrated shows of Zeppelin's career. Bonham seems to be having trouble at the start, like you said. I don't know if it's problems with his monitors or whether he overindulged a bit backstage, but he's not at his best, at least in the beginning. In fact, the first third of the set is downright lackluster to my ears (with the exception of IMTOD). I've also never gotten the praise people have for No Quarter here. It's cool to have video of the band playing it, and it's cool how the soundboard doesn't cut off like it does on the 25th, but to me it's just a good/decent performance. Nothing spectacular or really memorable to me. Now the NQ from the 18th, THAT's a great version. Tight and to the point, with uniformly excellent playing from everyone.

It isn't until Trampled Underfoot that things really get going, and from that point on the show is indeed great, with excellent renditions of Dazed, Stairway, and Whole Lotta Love. Yes, the last third of the show contains some of the best playing of the whole Earls Court run, but it's still a hell of a slog to get there IMO.

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32 minutes ago, ZepHead315 said:

 I don't know if it's problems with his monitors 

This is exactly what I was thinking for the 23rd Kashmir. He and Page seem to be missing each others cues a little and in one spot Bonzo hits the bass drum three beats in a row, like he's trying to get back on time. I really don't think he could hear himself well and was playing it by feel.

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All I know is that to my ears, the only mistake in that particular Kashmir is Jimmy missing his cue at one point, then coming in off the beat but the band does not fall apart but recovers almost seamless. Then there is the fact we have no idea what went on onstage at that point (Jimmy's missed cue). Maybe some tart flashed him or some bloke flipped him off and he was distracted. Either way I love this version of Kashmir, super heavy.

I would put the shows of the 18th & the 23rd as some of the best shows the band played and as ZepHead said, the 23rd was a very experimental approach to the songs which I really, really liked. The NQ from the 23rd is my favorite version of any year hands down and Jimmy's solos on that NQ make the NQ from TSRTS look almost tame...that is how good Jimmy was on that NQ. Like I said many times before, Jimmy wails on the Strat and he seems more comfortable on it than on his LP, plus he has a tremelo too. He used the Strat on OTHAFA & NQ for the 23rd and both songs are among the best versions he ever played those tunes.

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This is all interesting. Kashmir, along with Achilles and other epics, was overall prone to screwups AND experimentation.

I say Bonzo was trying some different things, yet as mentioned doing the acrobatic fills in the usual spots. And I

agree, Page sounded better on Over the Hills and NQ using the Strat. Back then, unlike now, 99% of Strats off the

rack , or even old ones, were pretty much alike, except that the pickups were hand wound, which could be bad, or

good. Overwound pickups sounded raunchier, while underwound pickups needed more volume to sound distorted.

Anyway, Strats don't sustain like LP's, so Jimmy had to change his playing style a bit, and pick a bit cleaner, as Strats

expose bad technique much faster than LP's.. And Zep had plenty of bottom end from Bonzo and JPJ, so the trebliness

of a Strat sounded great. Then again when Page used a Strat for ITE later on, I thought it sounded kind of trashy. Well

that was a different Jimmy.

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I'm not sure what night the bootleg dvd of Earls Court is but Bonham definitely struggles with Kashmir on that, there's one fill he attempts coming off a few cymbals & he goes way into the next beat by mistake. Being a huge Bonham fan myself, I don't tend to watch it very often due to the 'off night' he seems to be having.

I really don't think Bonham was at his best at Earls Court at all, he looks/sounds tired at times (possibly drink related) although the filmed version of Moby Dick is great, he possibly went up a gear due to his Dad & the rest of his family being there.

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So can we hope that there is a video of the 23rd out there since it was set up for the 3 original gigs or is this a pipe dream?

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If there is ever an Earls Court release, hearing this slow Kashmir in great quality would be amazeballs.

 

If it was recorded and on a shelf somewhere that is...

And Jimmy decides an Earls Court official document needed to be out there...

And if it included this Kashmir...

And i'm going to stop now. :unsure:

 

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