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BEST SOLOING ON OVER THE HILLS AND FAR AWAY


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On 1/19/2018 at 11:55 AM, AchillesLastBand said:

Man tho, Percy's voice is shite on Mobile 5/13/73. It's sad. We should be thankful that he sounded much better in July at MSG, or we might not even have TSRTS.

ALB

 

14 hours ago, gibsonfan159 said:

I think that's it exactly. You seem to like the more expressive, epic journey solos. I'm more impressed by Page when he's on point with technique (I.E. SIBLY MSG 73). Page just got a little too loose for me after 73.

If you don't  mind my asking, what are some other solos from 77 that you could recommend that would hammer home your taste for his playing (I promise I won't critique the shit out of them lol)?

Plant's not as bad here as I thought; maybe it's because I'd been listening a lot to Copenhagen 5/3/71 (the best I've ever heard him sing) and LTTE and the following night at the Forum, 6/22/71, where I think his voice sounds better than here.

You're right about technique; Page was never as sharp after '73. I particularly love the fast descending runs at the end of the solo and the Bb to open A chord near the end of it. Something unique from him.

ALB

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Whenever i see over the hills...on a mid 70s setlist, it makes me critique the setlists and wonder why there was not more variety. I think page and plant 90s totally recognized that with playing, thank you, ramble on, what is and what should never be, ramble on, babe im gonna leave you and opening shows with the wanton song.  In fact, i would say that ramble on, is a key song to the whole flow of the ahmet show in 07. 

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3 hours ago, middlezep said:

Whenever i see over the hills...on a mid 70s setlist, it makes me critique the setlists and wonder why there was not more variety. I think page and plant 90s totally recognized that with playing, thank you, ramble on, what is and what should never be, ramble on, babe im gonna leave you and opening shows with the wanton song.  In fact, i would say that ramble on, is a key song to the whole flow of the ahmet show in 07. 

Ramble On, a song so nice, they played it twice...

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My favourite is 2/12/75: it's spirited, clear, dynamic, disciplined and has nice execution of the main ideas Page had for the solo. The blend of coke, booze and sobriety was about right. The 77 versions are too frenetic for my taste, suits TU fine, but not this.

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On 1/21/2018 at 6:52 PM, JohnOsbourne said:

Credit where it's due, I'm not a '77 fan, so I've never listened to the 6-22 version, but after checking it out, I have to agree, it's very hot.

Try this 1977 one on for size, John. June 13, 1977 MSG, NY.

 

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Here's another '77 solo. I love being able to see Jimmy play this without the constant cuts you'd get if this was a regular concert video.The audio is my remaster of the EV soundtrack. This is still a work in progress. Sorry for the "Invalid" glitch towards the end. I'm still new to working with video. 

 

Edited by SteveZ98
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On 1/20/2018 at 5:39 PM, gibsonfan159 said:

I think that's it exactly. You seem to like the more expressive, epic journey solos. I'm more impressed by Page when he's on point with technique (I.E. SIBLY MSG 73). Page just got a little too loose for me after 73.

If you don't  mind my asking, what are some other solos from 77 that you could recommend that would hammer home your taste for his playing (I promise I won't critique the shit out of them lol)?

The 6-22-77, the soloing itself is fine... but... there's this "in the groove" thing, that I like better with the '73 MSG/TSRTS version. I just didn't catch that in '77 performance. Blame Jonesy ?? I don't know...

 

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21 hours ago, SteveZ98 said:

Here's another '77 solo. I love being able to see Jimmy play this without the constant cuts you'd get if this was a regular concert video.The audio is my remaster of the EV soundtrack. This is still a work in progress. Sorry for the "Invalid" glitch towards the end. I'm still new to working with video. 

 

That's a three minute solo that would have been much better played in half the time. There are some great bits but there is a lot of guff as well. 

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On 1/23/2018 at 8:20 PM, middlezep said:

Whenever i see over the hills...on a mid 70s setlist, it makes me critique the setlists and wonder why there was not more variety. I think page and plant 90s totally recognized that with playing, thank you, ramble on, what is and what should never be, ramble on, babe im gonna leave you and opening shows with the wanton song.  In fact, i would say that ramble on, is a key song to the whole flow of the ahmet show in 07. 

Wasn't the 75 tour supposed to be a sort of "greatest hits" tour? Plant always introduced the shows as "The best of the old and the new". I think the 75 tour was an overdone attempt to turn the band into a circus act and take advantage of their status at the time. Very ironic that Page's playing took a dive and Robert's voice was blown. The shows just don't do justice to all the photos and posing lol.

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9 minutes ago, gibsonfan159 said:

Wasn't the 75 tour supposed to be a sort of "greatest hits" tour? Plant always introduced the shows as "The best of the old and the new". I think the 75 tour was an overdone attempt to turn the band into a circus act and take advantage of their status at the time. Very ironic that Page's playing took a dive and Robert's voice was blown. The shows just don't do justice to all the photos and posing lol.

So if someone handed you a ticket to see Led Zeppelin in 1975 you would turn it down? Yeah, right.

Page's playing did not take a dive in 1975, considering he was playing with a broken finger instead of resting and rehabilitating it as he should have been doing.

You people need to stop equating what you hear on a bootleg tape, audience or soundboard or otherwise, to the actual concert. You can compare different performances vis a vis the tape if you want...say 6.23.77 OTHAFA vs. 2.12.75 OTHAFA or rank the soundboards in order of sound quality.

But none of that matters in the least when you are discussing and judging what the actual concert sounded like in the flesh. It has no bearing. Not even the Millard tapes do the concerts justice...particularly in regards to Jones and Bonham.

So yes, the 1975 concerts did do justice to the "photos and posing".

 

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1 hour ago, Strider said:

So if someone handed you a ticket to see Led Zeppelin in 1975 you would turn it down? Yeah, right.

Page's playing did not take a dive in 1975, considering he was playing with a broken finger instead of resting and rehabilitating it as he should have been doing.

You people need to stop equating what you hear on a bootleg tape, audience or soundboard or otherwise, to the actual concert. You can compare different performances vis a vis the tape if you want...say 6.23.77 OTHAFA vs. 2.12.75 OTHAFA or rank the soundboards in order of sound quality.

But none of that matters in the least when you are discussing and judging what the actual concert sounded like in the flesh. It has no bearing. Not even the Millard tapes do the concerts justice...particularly in regards to Jones and Bonham.

So yes, the 1975 concerts did do justice to the "photos and posing".

 

Never implied I wouldn't pay to see them in 75. Don't know where you're getting that from.

Page's playing didn't take a dive in 75? Bullshit. I'll call anyone out on that any time of day. Between a broken finger and heroin use, PAGE WAS SLOPPY. A good audience source is perfectly adequate for being able to hear whether or not a guitar player is on or not. And this excuse of "Can't judge from a bootleg" has no weight anyway because I can easily compare most shows post 73 to most shows pre 75 and easily hear the difference in both Page's articulation and his phrasing. He simply wasn't on the same level for whatever reason. But yeah, keep using that "You weren't there, maaan!" reasoning to smokescreen sloppy playing.

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5 hours ago, gibsonfan159 said:

I think the 75 tour was an overdone attempt to turn the band into a circus act and take advantage of their status at the time. Very ironic that Page's playing took a dive and Robert's voice was blown. 

That's where I got it from. "Circus act" sounds pretty derogatory in my book.

3 hours ago, gibsonfan159 said:

Never implied I wouldn't pay to see them in 75. Don't know where you're getting that from.

Page's playing didn't take a dive in 75? Bullshit. I'll call anyone out on that any time of day. Between a broken finger and heroin use, PAGE WAS SLOPPY. A good audience source is perfectly adequate for being able to hear whether or not a guitar player is on or not. And this excuse of "Can't judge from a bootleg" has no weight anyway because I can easily compare most shows post 73 to most shows pre 75 and easily hear the difference in both Page's articulation and his phrasing. He simply wasn't on the same level for whatever reason. But yeah, keep using that "You weren't there, maaan!" reasoning to smokescreen sloppy playing.

That is where I was getting it from. "Circus act" sounds pretty derogatory in my book.

Heroin use in 1975? I have not seen any reputable sources for that claim. Painkillers and Jack Daniels, yes. But not heroin.

1973 is revered by a lot of Led Zep fans as being Jimmy's peak of fluidity. Yet I can still point out flubs here and there on any 1973 bootleg, especially soundboards. Flubs that are just as bad as what you can find on 1975 boots.

So what? You are being picky to the point of pedantic. I don't care if you were there or not...I think it is unfair when people judge playing without considering context.

The "sloppy" tag is overused to the point of trolling at this point. The actual amount of "sloppiness" in a three-hour plus concert amounted to a drop in a bucket.

I was just listening to my audience recordings of May 18 and May 23, 1975 Earls Court and Jimmy sounds fine. I don't hear any glaring glitches..in fact, with only a minimum of EQ to calibrate the bass and treble frequencies, you could do an "archival release" of these tapes as is to critical acclaim.

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11 hours ago, Strider said:

Heroin use in 1975? I have not seen any reputable sources for that claim. Painkillers and Jack Daniels, yes. But not heroin.

1973 is revered by a lot of Led Zep fans as being Jimmy's peak of fluidity. Yet I can still point out flubs here and there on any 1973 bootleg, especially soundboards. Flubs that are just as bad as what you can find on 1975 boots.

So what? You are being picky to the point of pedantic. I don't care if you were there or not...I think it is unfair when people judge playing without considering context.

The "sloppy" tag is overused to the point of trolling at this point. The actual amount of "sloppiness" in a three-hour plus concert amounted to a drop in a bucket.

I was just listening to my audience recordings of May 18 and May 23, 1975 Earls Court and Jimmy sounds fine. I don't hear any glaring glitches..in fact, with only a minimum of EQ to calibrate the bass and treble frequencies, you could do an "archival release" of these tapes as is to critical acclaim.

I'd strongly second all that. I'd go further and argue that 1975 is actually the peak of Jimmy as a guitarist, both in terms of his playing technique as an individual and in terms of how he fitted in with Jones and Bonham. I've said it before; his playing might not be quite as much fun in 75 as before it - pretty much all the blues and old style rock and roll is cut. I'd agree that's a shame; I'd have loved to hear Let That Boy Boogie in 75. But he didn't cut all that stuff because he was too strung out or damaged to play it. He cut it because he wanted to move on.

On topic, his 1975 OTHAFA solos are invariably great, it's hard to pick any single one.  The handful from 77 too. It's one he obviously enjoyed doing, right from when it was the Immigant Song solo in 70-72. 1979 is good too, even 08.11, until it gets ruined by a broken string.

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On 1/21/2018 at 9:52 PM, JohnOsbourne said:

Credit where it's due, I'm not a '77 fan, so I've never listened to the 6-22 version, but after checking it out, I have to agree, it's very hot.

I've been collecting boots and listening to live Zeppelin since I was 15, I am 51 now.  For my money, the best solo is from 6-23-77 LA.  Logical, Structured, Amazing drama and tension and all flawless in execution and just the right length.   The solo from the 22nd is awesome but it's overplayed and overextended. He takes the best bits from the 22nd and creates the perfect solo on the 23rd..

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On 1/29/2018 at 12:31 PM, gibsonfan159 said:

Wasn't the 75 tour supposed to be a sort of "greatest hits" tour? Plant always introduced the shows as "The best of the old and the new". I think the 75 tour was an overdone attempt to turn the band into a circus act and take advantage of their status at the time. Very ironic that Page's playing took a dive and Robert's voice was blown. The shows just don't do justice to all the photos and posing lol.

Which '75 shows did you you see in person?

Otherwise, your opinion is useless.

I was at several of the '75 shows, and my opinion is the opposite of yours.

giphy.gif

 

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2 hours ago, Strider said:

Does anyone remember...Samantha?!? ;)

 

He seemed to be very randy that evening. The "Samantha" shout out was probably someone he was trying to get on side with. It's one of the interesting/quirky parts of this boot for mine. It's great.

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9 hours ago, The Rover said:

Which '75 shows did you you see in person?

Otherwise, your opinion is useless.

I was at several of the '75 shows, and my opinion is the opposite of yours.

giphy.gif

 

You need your ears checked then. This desperate attempt to ignore Page's lack of technical ability is getting sad and repetitive. As I've pointed out many times already, "being there" doesn't mean Page wasn't missing those notes. I don't know why you keep falling back on that. Oh wait, I do. Because it's the only anecdote you've got. Just stop it already and accept the fact that Page wasn't as good after 73. Anyone who plays an instrument can tell you that.

Edit: Did you hear that folks? If you were actually at the concerts Page didn't actually miss all those notes and his solos didn't wander aimlessly. It's amazing how a recording disguises things that don't have anything to do with a recording.

Edited by gibsonfan159
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On 2/2/2018 at 5:03 AM, gibsonfan159 said:

You need your ears checked then. This desperate attempt to ignore Page's lack of technical ability is getting sad and repetitive. As I've pointed out many times already, "being there" doesn't mean Page wasn't missing those notes. I don't know why you keep falling back on that. Oh wait, I do. Because it's the only anecdote you've got. Just stop it already and accept the fact that Page wasn't as good after 73. Anyone who plays an instrument can tell you that.

Edit: Did you hear that folks? If you were actually at the concerts Page didn't actually miss all those notes and his solos didn't wander aimlessly. It's amazing how a recording disguises things that don't have anything to do with a recording.

 

20 hours ago, gibsonfan159 said:

An excellent solo from 1975 (Yes, I said it lol. He did have some good nights). Indianapolis 1/25. Did he have a broken finger at this point? Coz it doesn't sound like it. It's a shame Plant's voice is a wreck for this one.

 

Jesus, you really have an axe to grind regarding 1975.

Look, I did not say Jimmy didn't hit a bum note or get lost in a solo now and then in 1975. I still remember the last night of the Forum in 1975 and wondering when he was going to get on with it during "Dazed and Confused". It seemed as if he had totally forgotten where he was during the Spanish Flamenco section right before the "San Francisco"-"Woodstock" part....it went on forever.

But I think you are overstating the amount of flubs in 1975. Go listen to the January 1975 shows, where Jimmy's injury actually caused Jimmy to really tighten his focus and adapt a new technique. It wasn't until his finger healed enough for them to add "Dazed and Confused" to the set that Jimmy felt daring and confident enough to throw off the shackles and venture out on a limb like the Jimmy of old.

Was "Dazed and Confused" as nimble in 1975 as in 1973? Not always. But there were certain parts that surpassed 1973 and all the years before. The "San Francisco"-"Woodstock" and bow solo was at their peak in 1975, and the final outro jam was far more interesting and developed than in previous years.

I will take the "No Quarter" solos I saw Jimmy play in 1975 over the ones I saw in 1973 every time!

Jimmy's playing in 1973 was spectacularly great but if you are going to nitpick 1975, then it is only fair to point out that there are any number of flubs during any random 1973 show.

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1 hour ago, Strider said:

 

Jesus, you really have an axe to grind regarding 1975.

Look, I did not say Jimmy didn't hit a bum note or get lost in a solo now and then in 1975. I still remember the last night of the Forum in 1975 and wondering when he was going to get on with it during "Dazed and Confused". It seemed as if he had totally forgotten where he was during the Spanish Flamenco section right before the "San Francisco"-"Woodstock" part....it went on forever.

But I think you are overstating the amount of flubs in 1975. Go listen to the January 1975 shows, where Jimmy's injury actually caused Jimmy to really tighten his focus and adapt a new technique. It wasn't until his finger healed enough for them to add "Dazed and Confused" to the set that Jimmy felt daring and confident enough to throw off the shackles and venture out on a limb like the Jimmy of old.

Was "Dazed and Confused" as nimble in 1975 as in 1973? Not always. But there were certain parts that surpassed 1973 and all the years before. The "San Francisco"-"Woodstock" and bow solo was at their peak in 1975, and the final outro jam was far more interesting and developed than in previous years.

I will take the "No Quarter" solos I saw Jimmy play in 1975 over the ones I saw in 1973 every time!

Jimmy's playing in 1973 was spectacularly great but if you are going to nitpick 1975, then it is only fair to point out that there are any number of flubs during any random 1973 show.

It's not that I have an axe to grind about the 75 tour (which is my favorite boot wise), it's that every time I make one comment about Jimmy's playing being on a lower level all of a sudden someone wants to argue about it. Then I naturally try to prove my point with examples and evidence, then get told "You weren't there so you don't know!", which is ridiculous.

Yes, Page had many flubs throughout their entire career, but the contrast of his technical playing ability (both articulation and phrasing) on average between 73 and 75 is very noticeable. Sure, some people like his solos from 75 and later better, that's fine, but you can't make an argument on a technical level. Broken finger, drugs, whatever the reason, he was a different player after 73. Most people who play guitar and know what good playing sounds like will say the same. I promise I'm not trying to beat a dead horse here, but if someone wants to call me out on it, then I'm gonna argue my case. And nowhere between 70 and 73 did Page play an entire show where he simply sounded inebriated. This happened a few times after 73 and some shows were simply embarrassing. 3/21/75 is one of those shows. Houston 77 is another one. So I don't think it's "Nitpicking". It's just calling it like it is. I don't understand why people get so defensive over something so undeniable. Zep is my favorite band and Page is my favorite guitarist, but I'm not gonna deny his change in ability after 73, just like I won't deny the change in Robert's voice.

Edit: Yes, those early shows were quite good and I've argued this many times. The Indianapolis show (posted above) and the Montreal shows have him playing great.

Edited by gibsonfan159
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21/03/75 is a weird example. I think he's kicking ass that show. The whole band is on. Just listened to Sick Again and OTHAFA, I am not a musician, but to me, sounds like he's killing it.

...except that one flubbed note that stands out like dogs balls at the start of Over the Hills. Always brings an involuntary wince from me.

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