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gibsonfan159

Nitpicking Page 1977

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On 11/29/2019 at 1:54 AM, gibsonfan159 said:

Nitpicking Page 7/20/1977 Tempe. Arizona ( Net Source )

tempe77_a_0.jpg.f725138bab78ca7d8852d1a64f4af092.jpgtempe77-a_0.jpg.457e7b585ec6629e1e36f0df32576ea7.jpg1977-07-20-tempe-jp6_0.jpg.af156d375f861a39ec4b55582192d214.jpg

Considered the worst Zep show ever. Let's see how bad it really is. All boots are incomplete as they open with the acoustic set, but are a fairly clear audience source.

Battle Of Evermore- This boot opens with a number of firework explosion and Plant immediately scolds the crowd. A good version with even Jonesy singing on point. "A".

GTC- An adequate version. Nothing too impressive. Another "Boom" at the end. "B+".

Black Country Woman- Rather short but played well. "A".

Bron-Y-Aur Stomp- Good start, good energy. Page's breakdown isn't spectacular but is played fairly well. 6:04, he hints at Dancing Days and Bonzo complies, but he skips it. A good finish for a strong "B+".

Trampled- Booming start. Jones gets in a decent, somewhat repetitive solo. Guitar solo- Page opens with some underwhelming notes, then comes blasting in screaming. It's hard to make out but sounds overall very sloppy. Not a train-wreck, but just not good. 
 6:44, Page sounds off key here. A decent finish for a "B" overall.

Black Mountainside- My version goes for 17 seconds and jumps into Kashmir, obviously in an unplanned fashion as the rest of the band miss the first bar.

Kashmir- The audio gets bad here and there is an annoying audio glitch. Cuts out at 8:15. Apart from the off start, this sits at a "B+". Not too bad.

Achilles- Comes in noticeably slow. By 0:40, it's obvious Bonham is either playing too fast or there's some monitor problems as Page and Plant both sound off time (this is apparently where the pyro guy blasted Jimmy in the face). At 0:50 Bonham is noticeably trying to hesitate to get the timing back on track. It sounds okay until 1:44 where Page misses the cue. 3:30, first solo- pretty sloppy. 4:22, Page jumps into this phrase a bar too early and repeats it next measure. 4:27, Plant follows Jimmy's lead and comes in too early. 6:18, second solo- not bad. 7:31, third solo- sounds pretty average until 8:10 where either Jimmy or JPJ get off key. It almost sounds like the tape speeds up for a sec. A decent finish as Plant makes some quips about the lighting crew. Definitely the worst Achilles ever. "C".   Plant afterwards- ("That was ah, Achilles Last Stand. That explosion at the beginning was ah, not supposed to be there, but anyway. In fact, whoever triggered that off is gonna be castrated shortly. That's what happens when half the crew are asleep, you see? We've been on the road now for about fourteen weeks, and every now and then somebody on the lighting tower sort of twirls to the floor there. Sort of Pirowhettes down and lands on the stage. Can we have a spotlight on the gentlemen on the stageleft? Spotlight up there over them. There's an Englishman there who's in the spotlight who fortunately, see those two Englishmen there? The pride of Chelsea. Wonderful boys. Well this song ah, I guess this song needs ah, well I don't think it needs much of an introduction. It's been very good to us.")

Stairway- A good start. 2:30, Page hesitates a bit. 2:55, some off notes. Solo- Page isn't exactly in shred mode but his phrasing is quite nice. The bit at 8:25 flows well. 9:30, off the tracks a little. 10:05, Bonham plays softer than usual here and I think he's allowing Jimmy to gather his bearings a little. The final measures are played straightforward, but well. I've heard far worse Stairway solos. Some hangups make this a "B".

Final assessment- I don't know how anyone could call this their worst show ever considering it's only the last half of the show. Maybe those who were there saw Page fall on his face during TSRTS, Plant's vocals blow out on Sick Again, or Bonham's sticks fly out of his hands during No Quarter, but apart from an unfortunate Achilles and a lackluster Stairway I just can't call it their worst show. Not even their worst bootleg.

Hey! This is my first post on the forums, you might recognize my name from /r/LedZeppelin. Im a big fan of what you do and I use your reviews of these shows as a template and what to hunt down and listen to next. Im glad you did this show just due to its infamy alone. Im surprised at your STH rating mostly, I actually think its pretty fantastic. I noticed you were a big fan of a few of the late May solo's that Page pulled out and honestly I cant get behind them :( I think Jimmy here was extremely fluid, his phrasing and improvisational skills were pretty off the charts. I think this was honestly one of his best solo's of this tour and its up to par with what he was able to put together in LA and MSG. I'd suggest maybe a relisten to Stairway? 

I hope that one day we get the full release of this show. I think it has some sorts of potential to be pretty solid show and its reception is wildly overblown.

Edited by dynamicbambino7

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2 hours ago, dynamicbambino7 said:

I'd suggest maybe a relisten to Stairway? 

Welcome to the forum!

I didn't think I was too harsh on the solo but I'll definitely give this another listen.

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Posted (edited)

Nitpicking Page 6/19/1977 (Net Source- first Gen)

1977-00-00---1.jpg.d422ecdb8ad6c5563d43930a79d631f2.jpg1406521138_sandiego77_1_0_0(1).jpg.4c79b5a60737b5093e259a97145f9fd4.jpg1977-06-19-san-diego4-rh.thumb.jpg.be079fee6acd1dea730ca9f51c23737d.jpgsandiego77_4_0_0.jpg.ef0a1b84bca2d38b506246c91880d6ad.jpg

 

Four days off from their last show should have the boys rested and ready to rock. Apparently it wasn't so. I've been interested in doing this one for a while because one, it was the first boot I ever heard and it's been ages since I've listened, and two, it's infamous for a sloppy Bonzo. The devil is in the details though, so here we go. (Excellent audience recording by the way.)

TSRTS- 1:28, an excellent start is quickly marred by Bonzo dropping out for a bit. 2:12, again. First solo- Not Jimmy's best, but not terrible. Second solo- Page picks it up a little here. A solid second half and Plant is sounding great. "C+" though considering the drum mishaps.

Sick Again- Bonham is playing behind Jimmy by half a second on the intro, pointing almost certainly to monitor problems or bad venue acoustics. Or drugs. Once the song gets going the tempo is slow but steady. First solo- A good, fluid set of runs but Page sounds like he has to wait for the next measure to arrive before starting each phrase. 3:42, Page does some nifty chording in the background here. Outro solo- Page enters shred mode for the usual semi sloppy phrases. "Lethargic" doesn't come close to describing this one, but it's not unlistenable. "B".

NFBM- Page plays the opening riff at his tempo, but Bonzo brings it down to his. 1:18, Page again plays the riff faster, but Bonzo is still drumming through mud. 2:38, getting sloppy. Harmonica- Excellent routine by Percy. 3;10, Bonham only taps the hi-hats for a bar. Solo- Page lets loose with extra ummph on his phrases as if to let the crowd know the band is still alive. The phrasing is there but there's a little sloppiness around the edges. He does get some nice trills in. Bonham completely fudges the end of the solo. 6:36, okay, this is a very telling moment. Bonham almost certainly misses the last snare hits on purpose. The timing is just too good for it to be due to technical or physical issues. He wasn't slow or sloppy, he intentionally hesitated. Is it possible Bonham is purposely throwing this fight? Maybe a joke? Did San Diego piss him off somehow? There's some good stuff in this, but that tempo just kills it. "C+".

IMTOD- 0:46, for a second I thought the joke was over, but he comes in a little late here and again slows it down. Jokes on him though, this song sounds great slow. 2:54, comes in a little late again. First solo- a little too repetitive with the phrasing, steady but doesn't seem to go anywhere. Second solo- more creative flow on this one. 8:05, Bonham misses the end of the bar. Not as bad as the previous three. "B".

SIBLY- First off, one the best intros ever by Jimmy. I know the "Just like 73" moniker gets thrown around a lot, but this was spectacular. And Plant extends the opening vocal amazingly. Jones' organ is beautifully haunting. Solo- a stunning array of emotion and blazing blues phrases. Well done. 5:30, Bonzo dangerously close to ruining it, but manages to hang on. 8:06, the way they slow it down here couldn't be done any better to secure the mood of the song. Bonham surprisingly knocks down an impressive drum roll finish. Gonna throw the ol "A+" on this one.

No Quarter- Tempo once again slow on a solid start. Jones- sound quality is unreal. How is this not a soundboard? The Fender Rhodes creates a mesmerizing segue into the piano routine. which is short but well done. The blues/boogie jam takes off and Page sounds a little hesitant to jump in but once he does he screeches out some decent licks, nothing great. Solo- though the playing is fluid the phrases are pretty average. He's not trying to leave the earth here, but he's not causing a scene either. Outro solo- 18:20, a speedy run. 19:02, Plant belts one out for the dogs of doom. If he didn't shred his vocals in 71, he sure did here. A very solid version overall but played a little too safe. "A".

Ten Years Gone- Good start. 2:32, very minor chord flub. First solo- Page is killing it, Bonzo is dragging. Second solo- Page relies on the released bends too much, but still pretty good. Third solo- a good set of runs but he runs out of road at 6:45. Fourth solo- average, not bad. The song winds down to a strong finish, but it felt like some energy was missing. "B".

BOE- 1:19, nice vocal harmony. 3:58-4:14, Plant feeling it tonight. He could easily do Immigrant Song. Bonham seems to be doing okay with the bongos. "A".

GTC-  1:27, Robert misses a line. 1:51, almost misses another. "B+" only because of the vocal flubs, otherwise excellent.

Mystery Train/BCW. Page and Plant launch into Mystery Train like they've been practicing it for weeks. Shame it didn't last longer. BCW is short and sweet. "B+".

BYAS- Page nails down the intro and we're off. Good energy and tempo. Page gets a superb flow going on the breakdown, flawless. The others join back in for a strong finish. A standout version. "A++".

WS/BMS- A well played version, on par with any 1970 performance. Even the usually flubbed chords in BMS are played fairly smoothly. "A+".

Kashmir- 2:16, it took this long but Bonzo slips here. 4:44, Bonzo trips up a little. 6:23, a very interesting, must listen drum pattern I've never heard him play before on this song. It honestly sounded fantastic. The couple of slips bring the proficiency level to a "B+", but it's a great version otherwise with Bonham's altered mindset making for some interesting drumwork.

Achilles- Good intro and the song kicks off with good energy. Fingers crossed Bonzo stays on point. First solo- Good phrasing, good articulation. 4:21-4:46 is especially impressive. Second solo- hard to make out, but sounds fluid and well phrased. Third solo- sounds good. 9:27, Bonzo off time just a hair, but he executes a perfect finish. One of the better versions I've heard. "A+".

Stairway- A speedy tempo but everything flows well. Solo- a good start which is rivaled by Bonzo's dynamic playing. 8:36, some bad articulation. Overall a great solo, but felt like he failed to convey enough emotion. Plant finally sings the climax in 1977 without straining. "B+".

WLL( Partial)- Very uptempo.

Rock And Roll- Excellent energy though the sound is a little more distant. Solo- A slopfest off the bat, but he straightens out for decent ending. "B+".


Final Assessment- True to Zep fashion this is one of those lopsided, dynamic shows where some things are off and others are really on. Bonham clearly had issues. Whether he was having a piss or was legitimately out of it, he was borderline trainwreck for most numbers, finally coming around on the latter half. Page was surprisingly very coherent and above average for 1977. I think the real standout for this show is Robert's vocals, which are about as close to a 1971 level as you're gonna hear. I'd wager to say they're better here than anytime in 1973 or 1975. The acoustic section really shines with flawless playing. Imagine what this show could've been had Bonzo been on track. The acoustic section is the standout as Page just shreds and Plant's voice is phenomenal. SIBLY and Achilles are definitely worth a listen as well.  

Edited by gibsonfan159

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7 hours ago, gibsonfan159 said:

Nitpicking Page 6/19/1977 (Net Source- first Gen)

1977-00-00---1.jpg.d422ecdb8ad6c5563d43930a79d631f2.jpg1406521138_sandiego77_1_0_0(1).jpg.4c79b5a60737b5093e259a97145f9fd4.jpg1977-06-19-san-diego4-rh.thumb.jpg.be079fee6acd1dea730ca9f51c23737d.jpgsandiego77_4_0_0.jpg.ef0a1b84bca2d38b506246c91880d6ad.jpg

Final Assessment- True to Zep fashion this is one of those lopsided, dynamic shows where some things are off and others are really on. Bonham clearly had issues. Whether he was having a piss or was legitimately out of it, he was borderline trainwreck for most numbers, finally coming around on the latter half. Page was surprisingly very coherent and above average for 1977. I think the real standout for this show is Robert's vocals, which are about as close to a 1971 level as you're gonna hear. I'd wager to say they're better here than anytime in 1973 or 1975. The acoustic section really shines with flawless playing. Imagine what this show could've been had Bonzo been on track. The acoustic section is the standout as Page just shreds and Plant's voice is phenomenal. SIBLY and Achilles are definitely worth a listen as well.  

Even better than Providence & Baltimore '73?  I admit, I've only ever listened to one or two songs from this show because I was always scared off by Bonham's sluggishness, but I will definitely listen after this review...didn't realize there were so many highlights sprinkled in!

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37 minutes ago, Bonzo_fan said:

Even better than Providence & Baltimore '73?  I admit, I've only ever listened to one or two songs from this show because I was always scared off by Bonham's sluggishness, but I will definitely listen after this review...didn't realize there were so many highlights sprinkled in!

That was strictly in reference to Plant's vocals. No way is the whole band on that level. It's a tragedy Plant didn't take advantage of his voice that night and do more encores like Communication Breakdown. 

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50 minutes ago, gibsonfan159 said:

That was strictly in reference to Plant's vocals. No way is the whole band on that level. It's a tragedy Plant didn't take advantage of his voice that night and do more encores like Communication Breakdown. 

Yeah, I knew you meant the vocals!  Indeed. The encore spontaneity wasn't terrible in '77 compared to '73 & '75 -- at least Ft. Worth and the New York & Los Angeles shows, but overall that aspect of the setlist took a huge dive post-'72.  I always wish they would've obliged that guy yelling for "The Ocean" before the encores on 3/27/75 in L.A.

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Robert definitely sounded great during the whole 77 tour it's really what makes me rank it as high as I do even above 72-75 era, I really think the third leg of the 77 tour tarnished its reputation especially with the Tempe performance and Roberts voice being weak for those last four shows of the tour, if you listen to the first leg yes it does start off rough but as they go on they improve during each performance and by the time you get to the second leg of the tour they're close to reaching their previous heights again. 

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9 hours ago, wordev1977 said:

Robert definitely sounded great during the whole 77 tour it's really what makes me rank it as high as I do even above 72-75 era, I really think the third leg of the 77 tour tarnished its reputation especially with the Tempe performance and Roberts voice being weak for those last four shows of the tour, if you listen to the first leg yes it does start off rough but as they go on they improve during each performance and by the time you get to the second leg of the tour they're close to reaching their previous heights again. 

I always wonder if the third leg would have improved had it not been for Karac's tragic passing.  The next show was New Orleans, where they liked to play; should have been motivated to play well at the make-up dates in Chicago; closing it out in Philly, which got one of the best '75 shows...

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Posted (edited)
On 12/22/2019 at 12:55 PM, gibsonfan159 said:
On 3/3/2020 at 3:52 AM, gibsonfan159 said:

Nitpicking Page 6/19/1977 (Net Source- first Gen)

1977-00-00---1.jpg.d422ecdb8ad6c5563d43930a79d631f2.jpg1406521138_sandiego77_1_0_0(1).jpg.4c79b5a60737b5093e259a97145f9fd4.jpg1977-06-19-san-diego4-rh.thumb.jpg.be079fee6acd1dea730ca9f51c23737d.jpgsandiego77_4_0_0.jpg.ef0a1b84bca2d38b506246c91880d6ad.jpg

 

Four days off from their last show should have the boys rested and ready to rock. Apparently it wasn't so. I've been interested in doing this one for a while because one, it was the first boot I ever heard and it's been ages since I've listened, and two, it's infamous for a sloppy Bonzo. The devil is in the details though, so here we go. (Excellent audience recording by the way.)

TSRTS- 1:28, an excellent start is quickly marred by Bonzo dropping out for a bit. 2:12, again. First solo- Not Jimmy's best, but not terrible. Second solo- Page picks it up a little here. A solid second half and Plant is sounding great. "C+" though considering the drum mishaps.

Sick Again- Bonham is playing behind Jimmy by half a second on the intro, pointing almost certainly to monitor problems or bad venue acoustics. Or drugs. Once the song gets going the tempo is slow but steady. First solo- A good, fluid set of runs but Page sounds like he has to wait for the next measure to arrive before starting each phrase. 3:42, Page does some nifty chording in the background here. Outro solo- Page enters shred mode for the usual semi sloppy phrases. "Lethargic" doesn't come close to describing this one, but it's not unlistenable. "B".

NFBM- Page plays the opening riff at his tempo, but Bonzo brings it down to his. 1:18, Page again plays the riff faster, but Bonzo is still drumming through mud. 2:38, getting sloppy. Harmonica- Excellent routine by Percy. 3;10, Bonham only taps the hi-hats for a bar. Solo- Page lets loose with extra ummph on his phrases as if to let the crowd know the band is still alive. The phrasing is there but there's a little sloppiness around the edges. He does get some nice trills in. Bonham completely fudges the end of the solo. 6:36, okay, this is a very telling moment. Bonham almost certainly misses the last snare hits on purpose. The timing is just too good for it to be due to technical or physical issues. He wasn't slow or sloppy, he intentionally hesitated. Is it possible Bonham is purposely throwing this fight? Maybe a joke? Did San Diego piss him off somehow? There's some good stuff in this, but that tempo just kills it. "C+".

IMTOD- 0:46, for a second I thought the joke was over, but he comes in a little late here and again slows it down. Jokes on him though, this song sounds great slow. 2:54, comes in a little late again. First solo- a little too repetitive with the phrasing, steady but doesn't seem to go anywhere. Second solo- more creative flow on this one. 8:05, Bonham misses the end of the bar. Not as bad as the previous three. "B".

SIBLY- First off, one the best intros ever by Jimmy. I know the "Just like 73" moniker gets thrown around a lot, but this was spectacular. And Plant extends the opening vocal amazingly. Jones' organ is beautifully haunting. Solo- a stunning array of emotion and blazing blues phrases. Well done. 5:30, Bonzo dangerously close to ruining it, but manages to hang on. 8:06, the way they slow it down here couldn't be done any better to secure the mood of the song. Bonham surprisingly knocks down an impressive drum roll finish. Gonna throw the ol "A+" on this one.

No Quarter- Tempo once again slow on a solid start. Jones- sound quality is unreal. How is this not a soundboard? The Fender Rhodes creates a mesmerizing segue into the piano routine. which is short but well done. The blues/boogie jam takes off and Page sounds a little hesitant to jump in but once he does he screeches out some decent licks, nothing great. Solo- though the playing is fluid the phrases are pretty average. He's not trying to leave the earth here, but he's not causing a scene either. Outro solo- 18:20, a speedy run. 19:02, Plant belts one out for the dogs of doom. If he didn't shred his vocals in 71, he sure did here. A very solid version overall but played a little too safe. "A".

Ten Years Gone- Good start. 2:32, very minor chord flub. First solo- Page is killing it, Bonzo is dragging. Second solo- Page relies on the released bends too much, but still pretty good. Third solo- a good set of runs but he runs out of road at 6:45. Fourth solo- average, not bad. The song winds down to a strong finish, but it felt like some energy was missing. "B".

BOE- 1:19, nice vocal harmony. 3:58-4:14, Plant feeling it tonight. He could easily do Immigrant Song. Bonham seems to be doing okay with the bongos. "A".

GTC-  1:27, Robert misses a line. 1:51, almost misses another. "B+" only because of the vocal flubs, otherwise excellent.

Mystery Train/BCW. Page and Plant launch into Mystery Train like they've been practicing it for weeks. Shame it didn't last longer. BCW is short and sweet. "B+".

BYAS- Page nails down the intro and we're off. Good energy and tempo. Page gets a superb flow going on the breakdown, flawless. The others join back in for a strong finish. A standout version. "A++".

WS/BMS- A well played version, on par with any 1970 performance. Even the usually flubbed chords in BMS are played fairly smoothly. "A+".

Kashmir- 2:16, it took this long but Bonzo slips here. 4:44, Bonzo trips up a little. 6:23, a very interesting, must listen drum pattern I've never heard him play before on this song. It honestly sounded fantastic. The couple of slips bring the proficiency level to a "B+", but it's a great version otherwise with Bonham's altered mindset making for some interesting drumwork.

Achilles- Good intro and the song kicks off with good energy. Fingers crossed Bonzo stays on point. First solo- Good phrasing, good articulation. 4:21-4:46 is especially impressive. Second solo- hard to make out, but sounds fluid and well phrased. Third solo- sounds good. 9:27, Bonzo off time just a hair, but he executes a perfect finish. One of the better versions I've heard. "A+".

Stairway- A speedy tempo but everything flows well. Solo- a good start which is rivaled by Bonzo's dynamic playing. 8:36, some bad articulation. Overall a great solo, but felt like he failed to convey enough emotion. Plant finally sings the climax in 1977 without straining. "B+".

WLL( Partial)- Very uptempo.

Rock And Roll- Excellent energy though the sound is a little more distant. Solo- A slopfest off the bat, but he straightens out for decent ending. "B+".


Final Assessment- True to Zep fashion this is one of those lopsided, dynamic shows where some things are off and others are really on. Bonham clearly had issues. Whether he was having a piss or was legitimately out of it, he was borderline trainwreck for most numbers, finally coming around on the latter half. Page was surprisingly very coherent and above average for 1977. I think the real standout for this show is Robert's vocals, which are about as close to a 1971 level as you're gonna hear. I'd wager to say they're better here than anytime in 1973 or 1975. The acoustic section really shines with flawless playing. Imagine what this show could've been had Bonzo been on track. The acoustic section is the standout as Page just shreds and Plant's voice is phenomenal. SIBLY and Achilles are definitely worth a listen as well.  

Seems like this show only gets better as it moves on. I don't think Bonzo was having a piss though, sounds like he was f'd up on something but started to slowly straighten out. You ever thought about the two Oakland shows? You've covered about everything from '77. Overall I agree with most of your ratings here (I'd probably give IMTOD a generous B+, Page isn't no Allman on slide, but overall I thought the song was performed greatly, I'd also say you were a bit too generous to No Quarter. I would have given it a B at most. Thought Page was coherent but he came off lacking a lot of enthusiasm during the performance. Average to Below Average playing overall.). Once SIBLY rolls around this show is actually pretty damn good. Plant's vocals are god damn great. Next to 6/10 & 6/23, this could probably be his best '77 show. I really overlooked this show.

Also, It'd be great if you continue doing these more on your spare time. These reviews are actually really damn cool. I'd suggest more of '73 stuff or even "Celebration Day" for Pagey.

 

Edited by dynamicbambino7

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gibsonfan129 As a song that was only performed mostly in 77 with two from 79 what would you say were the best performances of Ten Years Gone overall from this tour I really like the badgeholders show version but what others stood out to you from the tour?

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8 hours ago, wordev1977 said:

gibsonfan129 As a song that was only performed mostly in 77 with two from 79 what would you say were the best performances of Ten Years Gone overall from this tour I really like the badgeholders show version but what others stood out to you from the tour?

Not gibsonfan129, but I've always thought the June 13 version is a really good one but suffers from the sound quality.  The source for TYG on June 22 is damn-near indecipherable unfortunately, as it may well have been the best given how great the rest of that show is.

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14 hours ago, Bonzo_fan said:

Not gibsonfan129, but I've always thought the June 13 version is a really good one but suffers from the sound quality.  The source for TYG on June 22 is damn-near indecipherable unfortunately, as it may well have been the best given how great the rest of that show is.

Thanks I'll check that one out!

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I want to make some comments about Jimmy Page. I am a lifelong fan of Led Zeppelin and a lifelong guitarist. 

First, he was a top session guitarist. Not just a session guitarist but a top one. I have read comments by people in the record industry that he was "the best, period." My point here is that this ultra rigorous training would always stay ingrained in him. 

My opinion, and it is just that, is that the best live period was 69 to 73. After that, life events factors came into play. 

There are many bootleg recordings but my issue with these is the recording quality especially with LZ. Perhaps the 77 MM Forum recordings are an accurate representation but I'm not sure. 

What we do have is the official live records. Now, I know there has been a lot of comment how TSRTS has been edited etc but for reference I have listened to the Garden Tapes and it appears that the guitar solo on NQ is as played on the night. I'm specifically singling this solo out because I believe it to be one of the best solos I've heard, anywhere. I think it shows JP at his best, with superb phrasing and beautiful legato runs. JP has said a solo should take you on a journey and this solo talks to me on that journey. I want to contrast this with Jeff Beck's playing which, though amazing, consists of very short sharp runs. I think JB would struggle to play such a fluid solo as Jimmy does here on NQ. 

Regarding sloppiness. Applies to all of us at times. I do think though that many believe it to be sloppy as they do not understand what Jimmy is playing. I have read JP saying "it's time somebody else took a chance." This seems a comment related to the whole ethos of LZ in going out and playing "tight but loose" and seeing where it took them and their audience. With such freedom in the playing some musically uneducated people are going to interpret this as sloppiness, which is not quite accurate. 

Final comments. 

JPJ, by anybody's estimation, a world class musician, has said JP has "always been one of his favourite guitarists." Such a rating by such a musician would clearly not apply to a sloppy player. 

Paul Rodgers said JP was "technically the best guitarist in the world, along with JB."

I'll leave it at that for now. 

 

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Hobknobs said:

I want to make some comments about Jimmy Page. I am a lifelong fan of Led Zeppelin and a lifelong guitarist. 

First, he was a top session guitarist. Not just a session guitarist but a top one. I have read comments by people in the record industry that he was "the best, period." My point here is that this ultra rigorous training would always stay ingrained in him. 

My opinion, and it is just that, is that the best live period was 69 to 73. After that, life events factors came into play. 

There are many bootleg recordings but my issue with these is the recording quality especially with LZ. Perhaps the 77 MM Forum recordings are an accurate representation but I'm not sure. 

What we do have is the official live records. Now, I know there has been a lot of comment how TSRTS has been edited etc but for reference I have listened to the Garden Tapes and it appears that the guitar solo on NQ is as played on the night. I'm specifically singling this solo out because I believe it to be one of the best solos I've heard, anywhere. I think it shows JP at his best, with superb phrasing and beautiful legato runs. JP has said a solo should take you on a journey and this solo talks to me on that journey. I want to contrast this with Jeff Beck's playing which, though amazing, consists of very short sharp runs. I think JB would struggle to play such a fluid solo as Jimmy does here on NQ. 

Regarding sloppiness. Applies to all of us at times. I do think though that many believe it to be sloppy as they do not understand what Jimmy is playing. I have read JP saying "it's time somebody else took a chance." This seems a comment related to the whole ethos of LZ in going out and playing "tight but loose" and seeing where it took them and their audience. With such freedom in the playing some musically uneducated people are going to interpret this as sloppiness, which is not quite accurate. 

Final comments. 

JPJ, by anybody's estimation, a world class musician, has said JP has "always been one of his favourite guitarists." Such a rating by such a musician would clearly not apply to a sloppy player. 

Paul Rodgers said JP was "technically the best guitarist in the world, along with JB."

I'll leave it at that for now. 

 

I agree with everything you said, except for the number of enjoyable post-'73 recordings sound quality-wise.

TSRTS version of NQ is a great one to single out, as it highlights something else that I think is key to the Zeppelin magic, that being the sometimes ESP-level chemistry between Jimmy and Bonzo during solo/jam sections -- from about the 8:20 mark to the end of the solo especially.  It applies to JPJ too of course, you just have to listen closer to hear it sometimes.  In the comments of the Year of Led Zeppelin post about 4/26/69, someone wrote: "the difference between Zeppelin and their predecessors, Cream and Hendrix, is that the band listens to each other more, improvising as one rather than sounding like three soloists going at it all at once," and I thought that was a great observation.  Speaking of the Millard '77 tapes, the 6/21/77 NQ is another great example of this, only with Bonham taking the lead and the other two following.

As far as Page's sloppiness or lack thereof, I agree.  If you think of guitarists like painters, Jimmy is much closer to Monet or Picasso than he is to Michelangelo.  Sticking with '73 versions of NQ, I think The Year Of Led Zeppelin's description of the Providence version sums up Jimmy's playing pretty well: "...until Page's wildly passionate guitar solo explodes across the soundscape."  A great illustration of the difference between the two approaches can be found on "Eyesight To The Blind" off of Clapton's Crossroads 2 (Live In The Seventies), where  Clapton's furious but orderly and perfectionistic solo is followed by Carlos Santana's passionate, schizophrenic solo which flies off the rails in the best way possible.  I don't think you can objectively say that one approach is better than the other.  I feel like there's a baseball swing analogy that can be made as well...Mick Taylor would certainly be Ken Griffey Jr. -- so smooth.

Edited by Bonzo_fan

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Regarding June 19, 1977:  The acoustics at the Sports Arena in San Diego are horrendously bad.  Notoriously so.  Huge, deafening echos that go on and on and on, with an almost subwoofer-esque enhancement of low end.  I wonder if Bonzo was slowing down in an effort to hear himself and the rest of the band, perhaps to separate the monitor sound from the echoes of the arena by ensuring the tempo of the song (variable, by him) was different than the tempo of the echoes (fixed, by the acoustics of the arena).  Especially at the beginning of the show as the front-of-house sound folks worked to tame the Sports Arena using 70's-era PA technology.  (Afternoon sound check gets you part way, but the acoustics are different in a full house so there's always adjustment in the first few songs of any show).  

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41 minutes ago, Archetype said:

Regarding June 19, 1977:  The acoustics at the Sports Arena in San Diego are horrendously bad.  Notoriously so.  Huge, deafening echos that go on and on and on, with an almost subwoofer-esque enhancement of low end.  I wonder if Bonzo was slowing down in an effort to hear himself and the rest of the band, perhaps to separate the monitor sound from the echoes of the arena by ensuring the tempo of the song (variable, by him) was different than the tempo of the echoes (fixed, by the acoustics of the arena).  Especially at the beginning of the show as the front-of-house sound folks worked to tame the Sports Arena using 70's-era PA technology.  (Afternoon sound check gets you part way, but the acoustics are different in a full house so there's always adjustment in the first few songs of any show).  

I didn't know that about the Sports Arena.  That's an interesting theory.  They played there once in '73 and twice in '75 though with no such issues from Bonzo 🤔

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8 hours ago, Bonzo_fan said:

I agree with everything you said, except for the number of enjoyable post-'73 recordings sound quality-wise.

TSRTS version of NQ is a great one to single out, as it highlights something else that I think is key to the Zeppelin magic, that being the sometimes ESP-level chemistry between Jimmy and Bonzo during solo/jam sections -- from about the 8:20 mark to the end of the solo especially.  It applies to JPJ too of course, you just have to listen closer to hear it sometimes.  In the comments of the Year of Led Zeppelin post about 4/26/69, someone wrote: "the difference between Zeppelin and their predecessors, Cream and Hendrix, is that the band listens to each other more, improvising as one rather than sounding like three soloists going at it all at once," and I thought that was a great observation.  Speaking of the Millard '77 tapes, the 6/21/77 NQ is another great example of this, only with Bonham taking the lead and the other two following.

As far as Page's sloppiness or lack thereof, I agree.  If you think of guitarists like painters, Jimmy is much closer to Monet or Picasso than he is to Michelangelo.  Sticking with '73 versions of NQ, I think The Year Of Led Zeppelin's description of the Providence version sums up Jimmy's playing pretty well: "...until Page's wildly passionate guitar solo explodes across the soundscape."  A great illustration of the difference between the two approaches can be found on "Eyesight To The Blind" off of Clapton's Crossroads 2 (Live In The Seventies), where  Clapton's furious but orderly and perfectionistic solo is followed by Carlos Santana's passionate, schizophrenic solo which flies off the rails in the best way possible.  I don't think you can objectively say that one approach is better than the other.  I feel like there's a baseball swing analogy that can be made as well...Mick Taylor would certainly be Ken Griffey Jr. -- so smooth.

Thank you, Bonzo_fan for your astute observations. Your mention of the unbelievable and unsurpassed chemistry between Bonzo and Jimmy is something I have been very much aware of too. Indeed, Jimmy has commented on this, marveling at Bonzo's understanding of his playing. 

Your remarks about the quality of post 73 recordings, yes I agree some sound great, I was just saying you can't guarantee that was the actual sound. 

I further fully agree about the cohesive chemistry Zeppelin possessed and this is what captured audiences and singled them out relative to other bands. The real point here is that to generate that cohesion requires exceptional musical ability. 

Just a comment about Dazed and Confused live. It requires incredible musical and physical stamina to play at the high level required for 30 minutes on this song, where the focus is primarily on the guitarist. Also, just occurred to me, I remember listening to around 72 D&C and John McLaughlin live on, I think a track from Birds of Fire. I was very struck with the similarity of the solos. Now one would normally think of these two players as poles apart, but, again, I go back to Jimmy's training and absorption of all the sounds around him. I would add that McLaughlin is renowned as a very fast player, but, when the music required it, Jimmy could play very fast as well. Just to end by saying I was fascinated at the similarity of some of the musical passages. 

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It should not be too surprising that Bonham, Jones, and Jimmy bonded so well as musicians when united in Zeppelin. Page and JPJ had worked for some some time before Zeppelin, as studio session players and there were occasions where both appeared at the same session.  Jimmy in his own words related that he was 1st choice call for mostly Rock type of music and Big Jim Sullivan drew many calls in the same role for Countrish type music.  Being constantly chosen for those roles meant that you had to have the ability to improvise something to fit the music and that the talented ones have that delightful habit of always putting the “right notes” in the “right spots”.  Those are the players that are on call frequently.  Bonham being the guy that can drive the music, had to listen to everything going on and decide how to slow it down or speed it up and when to put in an accent at spots as sort of a que up to a soloist.  Bonzo when in Zeppelin for a spell developed a feel for Page's style which of was sometimes a “shoot from the hip” and take your chances approach to playing when in Zeppelin; something not quite so available to him when playing on other artist's sessions. Jimmy's taking of chances adventures is best heard in the “Immigrant Song”.  The composite performance video filmed in both Long Beach Arena in Los Angeles, CA in summer '72 and the Sydney Showground, AU February, 72 is an example where Page goes on a limb and just before the breaks, comes back in to finish a solo.  It's one aspect of Page's playing skills that kept him the exciting player he was, is not heard often enough in my estimation.

 

ADK-Zeppy 

 

 

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On 5/7/2020 at 2:29 PM, Bonzo_fan said:

I didn't know that about the Sports Arena.  That's an interesting theory.  They played there once in '73 and twice in '75 though with no such issues from Bonzo 🤔

Yep, only a theory (I might call it a mere hypothesis).  The prior shows at the Sports Arena without similar issues cast doubt on it, for sure.  Those prior shows are not perfect "controls," however, since there are other relevant variables unaccounted for - e.g., the PA equipment, monitor system, physical layout/positioning of speakers, and how the stage was set up within the venue all might have been different on these various occasions.   In any event,  I concede that the simplest explanation is likely the correct one . . .

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On 11/28/2019 at 11:54 PM, gibsonfan159 said:

Nitpicking Page 7/20/1977 Tempe. Arizona ( Net Source )

tempe77_a_0.jpg.f725138bab78ca7d8852d1a64f4af092.jpgtempe77-a_0.jpg.457e7b585ec6629e1e36f0df32576ea7.jpg1977-07-20-tempe-jp6_0.jpg.af156d375f861a39ec4b55582192d214.jpg

Considered the worst Zep show ever. Let's see how bad it really is. All boots are incomplete as they open with the acoustic set, but are a fairly clear audience source.

Battle Of Evermore- This boot opens with a number of firework explosion and Plant immediately scolds the crowd. A good version with even Jonesy singing on point. "A".

GTC- An adequate version. Nothing too impressive. Another "Boom" at the end. "B+".

Black Country Woman- Rather short but played well. "A".

Bron-Y-Aur Stomp- Good start, good energy. Page's breakdown isn't spectacular but is played fairly well. 6:04, he hints at Dancing Days and Bonzo complies, but he skips it. A good finish for a strong "B+".

Trampled- Booming start. Jones gets in a decent, somewhat repetitive solo. Guitar solo- Page opens with some underwhelming notes, then comes blasting in screaming. It's hard to make out but sounds overall very sloppy. Not a train-wreck, but just not good. 
 6:44, Page sounds off key here. A decent finish for a "B" overall.

Black Mountainside- My version goes for 17 seconds and jumps into Kashmir, obviously in an unplanned fashion as the rest of the band miss the first bar.

Kashmir- The audio gets bad here and there is an annoying audio glitch. Cuts out at 8:15. Apart from the off start, this sits at a "B+". Not too bad.

Achilles- Comes in noticeably slow. By 0:40, it's obvious Bonham is either playing too fast or there's some monitor problems as Page and Plant both sound off time (this is apparently where the pyro guy blasted Jimmy in the face). At 0:50 Bonham is noticeably trying to hesitate to get the timing back on track. It sounds okay until 1:44 where Page misses the cue. 3:30, first solo- pretty sloppy. 4:22, Page jumps into this phrase a bar too early and repeats it next measure. 4:27, Plant follows Jimmy's lead and comes in too early. 6:18, second solo- not bad. 7:31, third solo- sounds pretty average until 8:10 where either Jimmy or JPJ get off key. It almost sounds like the tape speeds up for a sec. A decent finish as Plant makes some quips about the lighting crew. Definitely the worst Achilles ever. "C".   Plant afterwards- ("That was ah, Achilles Last Stand. That explosion at the beginning was ah, not supposed to be there, but anyway. In fact, whoever triggered that off is gonna be castrated shortly. That's what happens when half the crew are asleep, you see? We've been on the road now for about fourteen weeks, and every now and then somebody on the lighting tower sort of twirls to the floor there. Sort of Pirowhettes down and lands on the stage. Can we have a spotlight on the gentlemen on the stageleft? Spotlight up there over them. There's an Englishman there who's in the spotlight who fortunately, see those two Englishmen there? The pride of Chelsea. Wonderful boys. Well this song ah, I guess this song needs ah, well I don't think it needs much of an introduction. It's been very good to us.")

Stairway- A good start. 2:30, Page hesitates a bit. 2:55, some off notes. Solo- Page isn't exactly in shred mode but his phrasing is quite nice. The bit at 8:25 flows well. 9:30, off the tracks a little. 10:05, Bonham plays softer than usual here and I think he's allowing Jimmy to gather his bearings a little. The final measures are played straightforward, but well. I've heard far worse Stairway solos. Some hangups make this a "B".

Final assessment- I don't know how anyone could call this their worst show ever considering it's only the last half of the show. Maybe those who were there saw Page fall on his face during TSRTS, Plant's vocals blow out on Sick Again, or Bonham's sticks fly out of his hands during No Quarter, but apart from an unfortunate Achilles and a lackluster Stairway I just can't call it their worst show. Not even their worst bootleg.

Agreed. Having just listened to the Tempe performance last night for the first time in years -possibly since I did the remastering work on it in the first place- this breakdown of the performance is spot on. Aside from the recording being better than I remembered it being (I reckon the muddy sound in the ASU arena was simply part and parcel) other than Robert Plant not hitting the high notes ("A man's got to know his limitations" as Clint Eastwood would say) "Achilles Last Stand" is the only real disaster here. I think "Trampled Under Foot" is sloppy simply because they hadn't played it in a month😆. Exactly why Jimmy skipped "White Summer" is probably a mystery known only to him...

Now I REALLY want to hear the first part of the show, the taper never said why he missed the first seven songs, just that the thing was taped on a "shitty tape recorder" with "old batteries".

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Nitpicking Page Oklahoma City 4/3/1977 (Fucking T.Y.- Tattytura)

I've gotten a few requests for this one so here we go. A boomy and slightly distant audience source.

TSRTS- Solid start and Plant sounds good. First solo is hard to make out but sounds ok behind the screeching P.A. Bonham seems to be lively tonight. Hard to judge. but I'll go "B+".

Sick Again- Hard to tell if it's the recording or the equipment, but Page's guitar seems to cut in/out on the intro. First solo- starts good but gets sloppy around 2:38. 3:25, wrong chords by Page. Outro solo- Page comes in erratically. 5:30, sounds extremely forced. "B" at best.

NFBM- Intro is a little sluggish and not as tight as it should be. 1:47, slight chord flub by Page. Same goes for the verses. Harmonica- sound quality drops but the harmonica is up front. Nothing amazing, just ok. Solo- Page starts off with a good couple phrases but jumps to some very strained bends, followed by some speedy fingered and somewhat sloppy phrases. 7:10, Plant ends the song with some squeaky vocals. "B".

IMTOD- A very solid start. 4:12, a little sloppy. First solo- phrasing is fairly on point from the start. 5:35, Page and Bonzo play off each other for a unique phrase. 5:54, a hang up as it sounds like Page forgets how to transition back to the verse. Second solo- Page holds it together a little better this time though it's very erratic. A heavy, energetic version, but very, very sloppy. I couldn't go above "B".

SIBLY- A decent intro from Page played fairly well until :48, where he loses focus a little. Verses aren't bad at all. Solo- extremely erratic off the bat and trying to cram too much in. 4:25, some straining. 4:53, some missed notes. 5:18, confusion as Robert comes back in as Page seemingly wanted to stretch it out. A rusty sounding performance. "B".

No Quarter- Good start as Jones' piano segment really stands out, flowing well with awesome phrasing. The blues boogie comes in well-timed, but no Page just yet. 7:57, a slight tape cut on my version. Jones' playing is seamless right up until Page finally comes in. 10:07, not good. 10:18, sloppy. 10:54, something happens as Page drops out and Jones covers his spot. 11:55, Page comes back in with some speedy phrases and sounding more confident. 13:20-13:30, Jimmy goes all out in a relatively messy fashion. 15:31, some more excellent phrasing by Jones before bringing it back. Page finishes up with some decent wah licks. Really hard to weigh the excellent showing from Jones against the near disaster of Page, as Jones is an "A" while Page gets a "C+". I'll meet it halfway and go "B".

Ten Years Gone- Solid intro by Page. 2:14, sloppy chording. 3:16, again Page is struggling to nail the chords. First solo- Page is very reluctant to get a flow going, but not bad. Second solo- Much better. Third solo- Page let's loose here and knocks down some energetic phrases. Fourth solo- finds the groove again for some good phrasing. Outro solo- pretty straight forward riffing as it sounds like Page hasn't turned this part into a solo effort quite yet. Overall not bad apart from the couple of chording struggles. "B+".

BOE- Some technical issues as it takes a while for the boys to set up. Plant sounding exceptional on this. Not bad at all. "A".

GTC- I hear nothing wrong, a superb version. "A".

BCW- A standard run through. B+".

BYAS- Good start. The breakdown is played energetically and fairly well. Solid version. "A".

WS- A sluggish start but the up tempo flows nicely as Page plays with passion. "B+".

BMS- 5:09-5:20, sloppy. Matter of fact, this whole BMS is a disaster. "C+".

Kashmir- 6:06, wrong chords. Otherwise a decent version. "B+".

Achilles- A very unusual, and nearly botched intro. 1:46, sounds like some missed chords. First solo- some dreadful phrasing and Page is almost playing ahead of the beat. Second solo- some better phrasing this time around. Third solo- not bad. Outro is a little loose. Not a disaster but it's obvious they haven't quite got the groove of the song down yet. Page's improvised riffing sometimes sounds awkward and Bonzo's fills are off point. A generous "B".

Stairway- Fairly solid first half with Plant sounding good. Solo- Page opens with the signature blazing licks but loses his flow some around 6:30. 7:26, Bonham attempts an odd sounding snare roll. 7:37, some bad articulation. Page gets the final bars down decently before the climax, which hits well. Not a great solo but overall not terrible. "B".

Rock And Roll- Blazing tempo. Solo- tremendous energy but the phrasing is all over the place. Monster drum fill at the end. "B+".

Trampled Underfoot- Good start. Jones gets a decent but short routine in. Solo- Page teases some slow bends before going insane. He catches a breather then finishes with more frantic phrases drenched with heavy delay. Not the most technical solo but an exciting one for sure. 6:03, a strange sound effect coming through the speakers. Ends abruptly. "B+".


Final Assessment- Well, it's only the second show of the year and it sounds like it. A very rusty performance all the way through. The acoustic section did shine as the only part of the set played above average. Page simply sounded out of practice on some of these seasoned songs, and dropping out entirely for whatever reason during No Quarter. Jimmy wasn't the only one to blame here though as Bonzo was also playing in an odd fashion, with a lot of drum fills sounding out of place and off the mark. This show is very similar to 7/23/1979 where they also showed some rust.

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On 7/11/2020 at 1:21 AM, gibsonfan159 said:

Nitpicking Page Oklahoma City 4/3/1977 (Fucking T.Y.- Tattytura)

I've gotten a few requests for this one so here we go. A boomy and slightly distant audience source.

TSRTS- Solid start and Plant sounds good. First solo is hard to make out but sounds ok behind the screeching P.A. Bonham seems to be lively tonight. Hard to judge. but I'll go "B+".

Sick Again- Hard to tell if it's the recording or the equipment, but Page's guitar seems to cut in/out on the intro. First solo- starts good but gets sloppy around 2:38. 3:25, wrong chords by Page. Outro solo- Page comes in erratically. 5:30, sounds extremely forced. "B" at best.

NFBM- Intro is a little sluggish and not as tight as it should be. 1:47, slight chord flub by Page. Same goes for the verses. Harmonica- sound quality drops but the harmonica is up front. Nothing amazing, just ok. Solo- Page starts off with a good couple phrases but jumps to some very strained bends, followed by some speedy fingered and somewhat sloppy phrases. 7:10, Plant ends the song with some squeaky vocals. "B".

IMTOD- A very solid start. 4:12, a little sloppy. First solo- phrasing is fairly on point from the start. 5:35, Page and Bonzo play off each other for a unique phrase. 5:54, a hang up as it sounds like Page forgets how to transition back to the verse. Second solo- Page holds it together a little better this time though it's very erratic. A heavy, energetic version, but very, very sloppy. I couldn't go above "B".

SIBLY- A decent intro from Page played fairly well until :48, where he loses focus a little. Verses aren't bad at all. Solo- extremely erratic off the bat and trying to cram too much in. 4:25, some straining. 4:53, some missed notes. 5:18, confusion as Robert comes back in as Page seemingly wanted to stretch it out. A rusty sounding performance. "B".

No Quarter- Good start as Jones' piano segment really stands out, flowing well with awesome phrasing. The blues boogie comes in well-timed, but no Page just yet. 7:57, a slight tape cut on my version. Jones' playing is seamless right up until Page finally comes in. 10:07, not good. 10:18, sloppy. 10:54, something happens as Page drops out and Jones covers his spot. 11:55, Page comes back in with some speedy phrases and sounding more confident. 13:20-13:30, Jimmy goes all out in a relatively messy fashion. 15:31, some more excellent phrasing by Jones before bringing it back. Page finishes up with some decent wah licks. Really hard to weigh the excellent showing from Jones against the near disaster of Page, as Jones is an "A" while Page gets a "C+". I'll meet it halfway and go "B".

Ten Years Gone- Solid intro by Page. 2:14, sloppy chording. 3:16, again Page is struggling to nail the chords. First solo- Page is very reluctant to get a flow going, but not bad. Second solo- Much better. Third solo- Page let's loose here and knocks down some energetic phrases. Fourth solo- finds the groove again for some good phrasing. Outro solo- pretty straight forward riffing as it sounds like Page hasn't turned this part into a solo effort quite yet. Overall not bad apart from the couple of chording struggles. "B+".

BOE- Some technical issues as it takes a while for the boys to set up. Plant sounding exceptional on this. Not bad at all. "A".

GTC- I hear nothing wrong, a superb version. "A".

BCW- A standard run through. B+".

BYAS- Good start. The breakdown is played energetically and fairly well. Solid version. "A".

WS- A sluggish start but the up tempo flows nicely as Page plays with passion. "B+".

BMS- 5:09-5:20, sloppy. Matter of fact, this whole BMS is a disaster. "C+".

Kashmir- 6:06, wrong chords. Otherwise a decent version. "B+".

Achilles- A very unusual, and nearly botched intro. 1:46, sounds like some missed chords. First solo- some dreadful phrasing and Page is almost playing ahead of the beat. Second solo- some better phrasing this time around. Third solo- not bad. Outro is a little loose. Not a disaster but it's obvious they haven't quite got the groove of the song down yet. Page's improvised riffing sometimes sounds awkward and Bonzo's fills are off point. A generous "B".

Stairway- Fairly solid first half with Plant sounding good. Solo- Page opens with the signature blazing licks but loses his flow some around 6:30. 7:26, Bonham attempts an odd sounding snare roll. 7:37, some bad articulation. Page gets the final bars down decently before the climax, which hits well. Not a great solo but overall not terrible. "B".

Rock And Roll- Blazing tempo. Solo- tremendous energy but the phrasing is all over the place. Monster drum fill at the end. "B+".

Trampled Underfoot- Good start. Jones gets a decent but short routine in. Solo- Page teases some slow bends before going insane. He catches a breather then finishes with more frantic phrases drenched with heavy delay. Not the most technical solo but an exciting one for sure. 6:03, a strange sound effect coming through the speakers. Ends abruptly. "B+".


Final Assessment- Well, it's only the second show of the year and it sounds like it. A very rusty performance all the way through. The acoustic section did shine as the only part of the set played above average. Page simply sounded out of practice on some of these seasoned songs, and dropping out entirely for whatever reason during No Quarter. Jimmy wasn't the only one to blame here though as Bonzo was also playing in an odd fashion, with a lot of drum fills sounding out of place and off the mark. This show is very similar to 7/23/1979 where they also showed some rust.

Definitely a rusty show for Zeppelin they seem to hit their stride at the last Chicago show onto the two Cincinnati shows which have decent recordings. The first leg of the tour has some pretty underrated shows and is often overlooked other than the Destroyer show.

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No Quarter from one of those Cincinnati shows (I forget which) absolutely smokes. The outro soloing from Page is killer.

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On 7/10/2020 at 11:21 PM, gibsonfan159 said:

Nitpicking Page Oklahoma City 4/3/1977 (Fucking T.Y.- Tattytura)

I've gotten a few requests for this one so here we go. A boomy and slightly distant audience source.

TSRTS- Solid start and Plant sounds good. First solo is hard to make out but sounds ok behind the screeching P.A. Bonham seems to be lively tonight. Hard to judge. but I'll go "B+".

Sick Again- Hard to tell if it's the recording or the equipment, but Page's guitar seems to cut in/out on the intro. First solo- starts good but gets sloppy around 2:38. 3:25, wrong chords by Page. Outro solo- Page comes in erratically. 5:30, sounds extremely forced. "B" at best.

NFBM- Intro is a little sluggish and not as tight as it should be. 1:47, slight chord flub by Page. Same goes for the verses. Harmonica- sound quality drops but the harmonica is up front. Nothing amazing, just ok. Solo- Page starts off with a good couple phrases but jumps to some very strained bends, followed by some speedy fingered and somewhat sloppy phrases. 7:10, Plant ends the song with some squeaky vocals. "B".

IMTOD- A very solid start. 4:12, a little sloppy. First solo- phrasing is fairly on point from the start. 5:35, Page and Bonzo play off each other for a unique phrase. 5:54, a hang up as it sounds like Page forgets how to transition back to the verse. Second solo- Page holds it together a little better this time though it's very erratic. A heavy, energetic version, but very, very sloppy. I couldn't go above "B".

SIBLY- A decent intro from Page played fairly well until :48, where he loses focus a little. Verses aren't bad at all. Solo- extremely erratic off the bat and trying to cram too much in. 4:25, some straining. 4:53, some missed notes. 5:18, confusion as Robert comes back in as Page seemingly wanted to stretch it out. A rusty sounding performance. "B".

No Quarter- Good start as Jones' piano segment really stands out, flowing well with awesome phrasing. The blues boogie comes in well-timed, but no Page just yet. 7:57, a slight tape cut on my version. Jones' playing is seamless right up until Page finally comes in. 10:07, not good. 10:18, sloppy. 10:54, something happens as Page drops out and Jones covers his spot. 11:55, Page comes back in with some speedy phrases and sounding more confident. 13:20-13:30, Jimmy goes all out in a relatively messy fashion. 15:31, some more excellent phrasing by Jones before bringing it back. Page finishes up with some decent wah licks. Really hard to weigh the excellent showing from Jones against the near disaster of Page, as Jones is an "A" while Page gets a "C+". I'll meet it halfway and go "B".

Ten Years Gone- Solid intro by Page. 2:14, sloppy chording. 3:16, again Page is struggling to nail the chords. First solo- Page is very reluctant to get a flow going, but not bad. Second solo- Much better. Third solo- Page let's loose here and knocks down some energetic phrases. Fourth solo- finds the groove again for some good phrasing. Outro solo- pretty straight forward riffing as it sounds like Page hasn't turned this part into a solo effort quite yet. Overall not bad apart from the couple of chording struggles. "B+".

BOE- Some technical issues as it takes a while for the boys to set up. Plant sounding exceptional on this. Not bad at all. "A".

GTC- I hear nothing wrong, a superb version. "A".

BCW- A standard run through. B+".

BYAS- Good start. The breakdown is played energetically and fairly well. Solid version. "A".

WS- A sluggish start but the up tempo flows nicely as Page plays with passion. "B+".

BMS- 5:09-5:20, sloppy. Matter of fact, this whole BMS is a disaster. "C+".

Kashmir- 6:06, wrong chords. Otherwise a decent version. "B+".

Achilles- A very unusual, and nearly botched intro. 1:46, sounds like some missed chords. First solo- some dreadful phrasing and Page is almost playing ahead of the beat. Second solo- some better phrasing this time around. Third solo- not bad. Outro is a little loose. Not a disaster but it's obvious they haven't quite got the groove of the song down yet. Page's improvised riffing sometimes sounds awkward and Bonzo's fills are off point. A generous "B".

Stairway- Fairly solid first half with Plant sounding good. Solo- Page opens with the signature blazing licks but loses his flow some around 6:30. 7:26, Bonham attempts an odd sounding snare roll. 7:37, some bad articulation. Page gets the final bars down decently before the climax, which hits well. Not a great solo but overall not terrible. "B".

Rock And Roll- Blazing tempo. Solo- tremendous energy but the phrasing is all over the place. Monster drum fill at the end. "B+".

Trampled Underfoot- Good start. Jones gets a decent but short routine in. Solo- Page teases some slow bends before going insane. He catches a breather then finishes with more frantic phrases drenched with heavy delay. Not the most technical solo but an exciting one for sure. 6:03, a strange sound effect coming through the speakers. Ends abruptly. "B+".


Final Assessment- Well, it's only the second show of the year and it sounds like it. A very rusty performance all the way through. The acoustic section did shine as the only part of the set played above average. Page simply sounded out of practice on some of these seasoned songs, and dropping out entirely for whatever reason during No Quarter. Jimmy wasn't the only one to blame here though as Bonzo was also playing in an odd fashion, with a lot of drum fills sounding out of place and off the mark. This show is very similar to 7/23/1979 where they also showed some rust.

Reading this I kind of felt you were being generous. For instance, the description you give of "Sick Again" sounds like it was a trainwreck but then you give it a 'B'. From the way you describe most of the songs, it sounds like a 'C' show at best.

So I decided to listen to the show last night...my first time listening to Oklahoma 1977.

Right away, the main problem became clear...the source tape is terrible. It sounds like it was recorded on a shitty recorder with old batteries. Then, it seems the taper could not figure out a way to stabilize his microphone. So the mic keeps switching locations....it sounds like it is under his jacket or shirt pocket at times or in his pants. Then it sounds like it is in a bag or purse with someone constantly rustling papers or unwrapping candy. Wherever the mic was it was not in a good spot to record the concert. Then, the guy didn't bring a watch or a lighter so he is constantly yelling for matches so he can see how much tape is left before he has to make the flip. Lastly, the tape was probably not stored well after all these years, so years of decay probably occurred on top of the already compromised recording.

So to really judge the band's and Jimmy's performance in particular is practically impossible. Because it is difficult to tell whether what you are or are not hearing is because of Jimmy, faulty amp and p.a. issues, or the fault of the source tape.

Given that it was only the second show of the tour and Jimmy hadn't touched a guitar in months, I was surprised the show was better than I expected it to be. Some issues were clearly Jimmy's fault or rust on the band's part. That weird segue from the guitar solo into "Achilles" was one example.

The first four songs are definitely the worst part of the show. It takes a while for the band to find their groove. Missed cues in "The Song Remains the Same", "Nobody's Fault But Mine", and "In My Time of Dying".

Benji seemed to leave Robert high and dry in many spots. A lot of the vocal effects that were de riguer when I saw them at the Forum were missing at this Oklahoma show.

I think you are wrong about "Since I've Been Loving You". I don't think Robert comes in early on Jimmy's solo at all. Jimmy played that little riff he always played when he was ending the solo. The rest of the band stops to let Robert come in. I think what you hear is Jimmy hitting his volume swell a little too much.

You are right about the acoustic set...it's a highlight. It proves that Jimmy had no problem playing when he was sitting still and the guitar wasn't hanging at his knees, hehe.

Well...until he gets to White Summer/Black Mountain Side. Tape decay or no tape decay, that was a mess by Jimmy. Definitely showed the rust on that one. But he recovered nicely with a pretty good "Kashmir". The crowd certainly seemed to enjoy it.

I love the encores when they ditched the tired and useless bar and a half versions of "Whole Lotta Love". Both "Whole Lotta Love" and "Black Dog" belonged in the dustbin by 1977.

The encore here of "Rock and Roll" and "Trampled Under Foot" sounds fun, thrashy and energetic.

I still give it a C...maybe a C+ or B-. But until we hear a better source tape, it's really impossible to nitpick Jimmy or the rest of the band on this show.

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