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gibsonfan159

Nitpicking Page 1973

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On 6/26/2018 at 11:32 AM, Daeron said:

I don't know why but that mellotron solo reminded me of the Beatles. Any idea why Jones starting playing mellotron solos instead of organ solos? 

 

On 6/26/2018 at 8:14 PM, Bonzo_fan said:

Well, he hardly ever soloed with the mellotron--aren't this, 6/3/73 LA & 7/29/73 NY the only times "Thank You" was played after his switch to the mellotron from the Hammond, thus the only times he had a mellotron solo?

The mellotron was not used on the 6.3 and 7.29 "Thank You"s in 1973. John Paul Jones used the organ as usual.

Since no one has bothered to ask Jones why he used the mellotron for the solo and "Thank You" at Southampton (and I think one or two other shows in late-72 or early-73?), it is up to speculation.

Either there was a problem with the Hammond B3 and he had to switch to the mellotron or Jones just did it on a whim to check out his new toy.

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11 minutes ago, Strider said:

The mellotron was not used on the 6.3 and 7.29 "Thank You"s in 1973. John Paul Jones used the organ as usual.

Since no one has bothered to ask Jones why he used the mellotron for the solo and "Thank You" at Southampton (and I think one or two other shows in late-72 or early-73?), it is up to speculation.

Either there was a problem with the Hammond B3 and he had to switch to the mellotron or Jones just did it on a whim to check out his new toy.

Yes, that was my mistake.  I assumed he used the mellotron for those two without listening to confirm -- I figured he didn't bring the Hammond B3 for North America '73 since it wasn't used on anything in the usual setlist (right?).  But I suppose he always had it set up just in case?  He obviously had it with him in San Diego in '77...

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I just started reading this thread yesterday. I'm kind of disappointed gibsonfan isn't doing the year in chronological order. I think it helps to hear how certain songs and certain jams develop over time instead of flip-flopping back-and-forth in time.

As for the concerts you have assessed so far, I am in agreement with most of your judgements. Oh, by the way, "this sucks" was most definitely in use back then...and even earlier than 1973. I think I first remember hearing it in person around 1970-71.

There is one nitpick I have always had about the 1973 tour that I am surprised you haven't mentioned yet, gibsonfan.

When Jimmy plays the "Misty Mountain Hop" solo on the UK/Euro leg of the tour he plays the last note of the final two bars similar to the studio recording...letting the note sustain with a finger vibrato or a bend. Jimmy also ended the solo this way at the 1979 Copenhagen and Knebworth shows. I love it.

But then for the 1973 U.S. tour instead of the vibrato, Jimmy instead does this weird staccato note/fake echo effect, which I never liked.

Just curious why you don't note this and what your thoughts are and which style MMH solo you prefer...the Euro style or the U.S. style?

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4 hours ago, Strider said:

I just started reading this thread yesterday. I'm kind of disappointed gibsonfan isn't doing the year in chronological order. I think it helps to hear how certain songs and certain jams develop over time instead of flip-flopping back-and-forth in time.

As for the concerts you have assessed so far, I am in agreement with most of your judgements. Oh, by the way, "this sucks" was most definitely in use back then...and even earlier than 1973. I think I first remember hearing it in person around 1970-71.

There is one nitpick I have always had about the 1973 tour that I am surprised you haven't mentioned yet, gibsonfan.

When Jimmy plays the "Misty Mountain Hop" solo on the UK/Euro leg of the tour he plays the last note of the final two bars similar to the studio recording...letting the note sustain with a finger vibrato or a bend. Jimmy also ended the solo this way at the 1979 Copenhagen and Knebworth shows. I love it.

But then for the 1973 U.S. tour instead of the vibrato, Jimmy instead does this weird staccato note/fake echo effect, which I never liked.

Just curious why you don't note this and what your thoughts are and which style MMH solo you prefer...the Euro style or the U.S. style?

Spot on about the MMH solos in UK/Europe vs US.  The 2nd night in Chicago is really the only night of the NA tour where he ad-libs anything (not in the solo, near the end of the song itself).

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9 hours ago, Strider said:

When Jimmy plays the "Misty Mountain Hop" solo on the UK/Euro leg of the tour he plays the last note of the final two bars similar to the studio recording...letting the note sustain with a finger vibrato or a bend. Jimmy also ended the solo this way at the 1979 Copenhagen and Knebworth shows. I love it.

But then for the 1973 U.S. tour instead of the vibrato, Jimmy instead does this weird staccato note/fake echo effect, which I never liked.

True I never actually made note of this in the analysation. I think with all the jumping around I did I just never noticed he made that change specifically at the start of the US tour.

Which do I prefer personally? The delay effect does sound rather unnatural, but it fills the gap better than the trill phrase of the original, which he couldn't really recreate well live, and I think that's why he started doing it that way. The studio version had an overdub that connected the solo back to the verse. I think for the US tour he realized the gap sounded weird so instead he stomped a delay pedal to make the phrase play a bit longer.

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Nitpicking Page 7/13/1973 Detroit (Listen To This MJ- Net Source)

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A slightly distant but otherwise very listenable audience recording. Bonham and Plant are up front in the audio and unfortunately Page is the lowest. 

Rock And Roll- A squeaky Plant on the start. 2:08, Bonzo launches the solo with a nice fill. Solo- textbook phrasing with a couple of emphasized bends at 2:28. A painful sounding scream at 3:32. Not a bad start. "B+".

Celebration Day- Robert is giving it a hundred percent but still sounds very tired. 2:29, some inspired vocals. First solo- good. Outro solo- Page starts off with some choppy phrasing. 3:12, finally gets a good flow going here. Not bad, but I've heard Page do much better on this outro. "B+".

Black Dog- Good start. 3:02, something sounds out of place here as Page seemingly drops from the riff for a couple seconds, but it's barely noticeable. Solo- some good phrasing and energy carries this one out. an "A" if overlooking some scratchy vocals.

OTHAFA- Intro is played well and in delicate fashion. Robert is starting to smooth out some now for some solid verses. Solo- Page starts with the usual phrasing in the lower register.  3:26, some nice speedy runs. 3:38, some unique sounding pick taps he often did in 73. 3:44, another blazing run. 4:37, Bonham pauses coming out of the solo for a bar as if he's unsure if he's on the correct beat. Plant is scratchy again on the returning verse. 5:26, scratchy or not, that sounded great. Page nails the outro to end this one. "B+".

MMH- Good start. 1:50, Bonzo tearing the walls down. 2:45, again. Solo- standard run through with Page's delay effect not really coming through at the end. 3:53, excellent vocal effort from Plant. Booming drum fills to the end. An "A" overall.

SIBLY- Intro is blinding fast (but not perfectly fluid). 1:15, a released bend with a trill, which always sounds impressive. Very nice phrasing from Jim to bring in the verses and Plant has smoothed out again. The mood is perfect on this one. Solo- Page is in hyper mode as he blasts out a series of fast runs. 5:18, slows down for just a bit before finishing with another blazing lick. 6:22, Percy pouring his heart and soul out. 7:08, barely audible in the background but Page is going ape with some trills. 7:38, maximum effort from Plant as he nails a 1970 level scream. A perfectly somber outro to an above par version, even for 73. "A++".

No Quarter- Solid intro. Jones' solo meanders in usual 73 fashion. Solo- Page is very low in the recording but gets off to a good start with some solid noodling. 7:04, a tape flip but not too much is missed as we come back to Page and Bonham playing off each other very dynamically. 8:16, Bonham gets a little impatient and throws in a sixteenth beat. Jones joins the fun before bringing it back to the verses. 11:32, Plant going for another scream before the song comes to an end. Overlooking the cut in the solo, I'll still go "A". 

TSRTS- Perfect energetic start with Jones cutting through well. Plant still sounding good as of now. 1:49, Bonham gets a little loose with this fill but makes it work. First solo- hard to make out but sounds like a fluid, speedy fingered Jim. Actually some of the most fluid phrasing I've heard for this solo. 2:53, Bonzo matches Jim's intensity with some ferocious beats. 3:52, monster of a drum fill.  Plant straining some on the return to the verses. Second solo- again, excellent playing form Jimmy and Jones is also having a field day on bass. Page and Bonham are absolutely killing it on this second half. Plant's squeaky vocals are such a shame considering this is stand out version by the other three. Still a must listen. "A+".

The Rain Song- Very relaxed tempo. Robert sounding good again. Rock section- 5:44, Plant holds on to this scream a little too long and has to rush the next lyric. Some nice wails and playing throughout. "A".

Dazed- Solid intro with Plant again putting in effort. First workout- 4:37, off to the races and excellent playing by all three. 5:11-5:23, 73 Jimmy run. 5:27, I think hear Strider in the background. San Francisco is exceptionally haunting. The bow section sounds like the soundtrack for making a deal with the devil. Second workout is pure energy. 21:23-21:52, some very fluid playing by Page. Bonham sounds a little hesitant on the Mars section. 27:38, unique riffing. 27:52, sounds like some confusion on the transition to the climax (or a tape flip). The outro features more excellent playing by Page with the wah pedal. A very intimidating version throughout. "A".

Stairway- 3:39, Robert feeling brave with this extended note. Solid verses. Solo- unfortunately the Rhodes piano crowds the recording and Page is barely audible. Plant sounding raspy on the climax but still singing with emotion. Considering I base the rating of this song very strongly on the solo, I'll have to give this an "N/A". Otherwise it sounds like a solid version.

Moby Dick- Plant introduces the "White whale". A very thunderous and entertaining version.

Heartbreaker- Bonzo plays an intro that sounds like cannons being fired. Decent verses but Plant is sounding hoarse again. 1:01, thunderous fill. Solo- no rockabilly section tonight as Page mimics the studio take with more intensity. 3:48, the fast part part is much less sloppy than usual. A nicely played Bouree leads to a blues rhythm, which dissolves quickly. Page plays some good runs as the solo goes into the final phase. 6:58, just a little sloppy here. Overall pretty good. "A".

WLL- Solid intro. Page's vocal accompaniment comes through well. The theremin section features a short, breakneck Crunge and a hint at Licking Stick. Solo- played flawlessly and the return sounds good. Boogie Chillen- takes a while to get going. Page gets some fluid lead licks in as the solo takes off. 10:38, sounds like Page almost goes into Let's Have A Party but Bonham goes back to the same beat and they carry on. 12:27, blowing the doors off the place. 13:23, Plant reaches way down inside and pulls out a primal scream for the return and solid ending. "B+". (15:34, Plant botches Bonham's name when crediting the band.)

Dancing Days- Good start. 2:28, Plant putting in good effort. Nothing out of place on this solid version. "A+".

Final Assessment- The first few numbers aren't bad but I don't think the band gets fully locked in until SIBLY, then it's guns blazing from there on. Plant is struggling a bit in places but seems to drift in and out of hoarseness, sometimes going for air raid screams. The highlights are a powerful SIBLY and a TSRTS that blows the roof off the place. Thanks to Jon, Steve, Golden Retriever and the folks on DogsOfDoom for getting this one out. 

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I'm curious, gibsonfan159. How many times do you listen to a show before giving it the nitpicking treatment? 

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9 minutes ago, Strider said:

I'm curious, gibsonfan159. How many times do you listen to a show before giving it the nitpicking treatment? 

Depends. I've listened to some shows (L.A. 77 i.e.) several times before, but when I listened to do a nitpick I found things I never noticed before. I usually replay songs two or three times in a row if I think I might've missed something, or replay certain sections (like solos) multiple times. This was my first full listen for the 7/13 show. But like I said, I replayed certain songs or bits several times. 

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