Dee Snider Of Twisted Sister Puts Down Zep

[Old Man]

I had to share this.  I saw this interview somewhere with Dee Snider talking about how boring Led Zeppelin was because of their live 30 minute drum solos.  Snider further went on to say how rock/metal fans went on to choose bands such as Twisted Sister over Zep and other more classic and '70's groups.

I want to say that:

1.  Although Zep is definitely my all time favorite group and always will be, I am an '80's teen and young adult.

2.  I like several of the '80's rock/metal bands and singers.

3.  If I should be angry about Snider's comments I am not.  I found what Dee Snider had to say about Zep nothing short of hilarious.  Seriously.

Come on.  Twisted Sister was a little boy's band.  That was the kind of stuff that 13 and some just-turned-14 year old boys listened to when they were mad at their parents and having a tantrum.  You never saw anybody 16 or over listening to Twisted Sister.  You just didn't.

There's just one more thing I have to say and please forgive me but I have to do it.  Twisted Sister couldn't have even gotten jobs as Led Zeppelin's roadies. 

[Walter]

He’s a media entity anymore - has to get attention by making outrageous comments. Not much different from his on stage persona. Whatever. 

[IpMan]

Twisted who? What the hell does the actress from Cujo & The Howling know about Zeppelin anyway.

Unbelievable!

[porgie66]

🤣 What a JAMF!!!

[SymphonyX]

Where are the links for this ?

Dee has quite a bit of Zeppelin cover videos on Youtube

 

[76229]

Given virtually every hair metal band stole Zeppelin's stage look, he can talk. Twat.

[Sticks of Fire]

Who?   

[blindwillie127]

Maybe..."rock/metal fans went on to choose bands such as Twisted Sister over Zep"...because the band Led Zeppelin no longer existed? 

However, I do think that LZ's  overly indulgent solo's which peaked in '77, is fair game for criticism... just ask Robert Plant.

A little trivia: Twister Sister was signed to Atlantic Records (ouch) and recorded their biggest selling album at Jimmy Page's Sol Studios.

 

Edited August 20, 2018 by blindwillie127

[No Quota]

I remember seeing TS open for Iron Maiden  around 1985/6 in a small venue in Chattaboogie.

There were 650 of us to see Maiden and maybe 3 for ol' Dee and the boys. He acted like a putz because of the lack of enthusiasm for his candy-ass "makeup rock" and the crowd gave him no quarter. I saw a couple of guys moon him.

Maiden on the other hand, gave a performance like they were in front of 20,000. The Powerslave tour with the giant mummy and all the bells and whistles. They really lost money on that show and I've always respected them since.

 

[the chase]

If Dee Snider was bored with a long drum solo, that's all well and good... Drum Solo's are not for everybody.. Neither is a 3 and a half hour show everybody's cup of tea..

But to say Rock / Metal fans chose Twisted Sister over Led Zeppelin is ridiculous. Twisted Sister were a good band with an excellent Drummer.. 

They were never in Led Zeppelin's league..

[bluecongo]

Had Zep survived into the 80s, the band was streamlining and leaving the extended solos behind.  Naturally evolving until tragic events stopped them in their tracks.   

Snider recently also said Twisted Sister doesn't belong in Rock HoF.  I agree with him on that!!!!!!!

[Stryder1978]

7 minutes ago, bluecongo said:

Had Zep survived into the 80s, the band was streamlining and leaving the extended solos behind.  Naturally evolving until tragic events stopped them in their tracks.   

Snider recently also said Twisted Sister doesn't belong in Rock HoF.  I agree with him on that!!!!!!!

With what the R&R Hall of Fame has turned into, who would to be in it????

[Strider]

Yawn. 😴

[TheMadIrishman]

It’s just a bunch of crap. So many artists have expressed their dislike toward Led Zeppelin simply because they exploded into fame and stardom, leaving behind and blanketing some of the larger bands at the time. Keith Richards said he didn’t like Zeppelin because of their sound and John Bonham was “too heavy footed” for his taste. That’s a bunch of bullshit. The Stones weren’t as good as they were in the 60’s when the 70’s rolled around. ALL of The Who HATE Zeppelin simply because they (The Who) were around longer and didn’t have nearly the same amount of fame (in fact Zeppelin got their name from a Keith Moon wise crack towards Jimmy saying “if you started a band it would go down like a lead balloon”). ANOTHER example is Ginger Baker from Cream. He states Bonham isn’t that great because he can’t swing for shit, we all know that Bonham IS the best drummer to walk this earth. And now Dee Snider is joining the barracks of hate because it took TS like 10 years to get a record contract and they were so short lived. 

[gibsonfan159]

13 minutes ago, TheMadIrishman said:

. He states Bonham isn’t that great because he can’t swing for shit, we all know that Bonham IS the best drummer to walk this earth. 

I think this quote is often misunderstood. He said "He had technique, but he couldn't swing a stick for shit".

Now, I think Baker is an emotionally unstable asshat, but I can see his point on this. Baker was a straight up jazz drummer who for some reason joined a rock band. Bonham was influenced by jazz, but he absolutely was not a jazz drummer and he really never fell into any true jazz style. Even when he attempted jazz techniques live, it was usually overdone and simplistic. Correct me if I'm wrong, but "Swinging a stick" refers to a jazz drummer's finesse and smoothness on a kit. With all due respect, Bonham lacked finesse. He was heavy handed and usually lacked a jazz "character".

To even this out though, Baker was a shit rock drummer who could never rise above his own insecurities.

[TheMadIrishman]

8 minutes ago, gibsonfan159 said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but "Swinging a stick" refers to a jazz drummer's finesse and smoothness on a kit.

I will very politely correct this statement. This is sorta true but, swing really is a type of jazz/musical style. This means you play in an flowing rhythm, sort of an up and down or back in forth in a 4/4 or 1/2 setting. Listen to In the Mood by Glen Miller, classic swing example

[JohnOsbourne]

Dee Snider is a douche.  It's one thing to be opinionated, but the dude just likes to hear himself talk.  Shut-up already, no one cares.  (And FWIW I'll take the Crue or LA Guns over Twisted Sister any day of the week.)

[gibsonfan159]

25 minutes ago, TheMadIrishman said:

I will very politely correct this statement. This is sorta true but, swing really is a type of jazz/musical style. This means you play in an flowing rhythm, sort of an up and down or back in forth in a 4/4 or 1/2 setting. Listen to In the Mood by Glen Miller, classic swing example

Yea, I don't think he was talking about time signatures.

[hummingbird69]

54 minutes ago, gibsonfan159 said:

I think this quote is often misunderstood. He said "He had technique, but he couldn't swing a stick for shit".

Now, I think Baker is an emotionally unstable asshat, but I can see his point on this. Baker was a straight up jazz drummer who for some reason joined a rock band. Bonham was influenced by jazz, but he absolutely was not a jazz drummer and he really never fell into any true jazz style. Even when he attempted jazz techniques live, it was usually overdone and simplistic. Correct me if I'm wrong, but "Swinging a stick" refers to a jazz drummer's finesse and smoothness on a kit. With all due respect, Bonham lacked finesse. He was heavy handed and usually lacked a jazz "character".

To even this out though, Baker was a shit rock drummer who could never rise above his own insecurities.

I'm sorry but I have to disagree with you. If you think John had no chops you're wrong. just watch the RAH Moby Dick. He shows incredible finesse.  Watch his crossovers and triplets on the toms he is very smooth. John also has a great onehanded roll. If you listen very hard to what he's doing you'll notice the snare never really stops ringing because he is always making it talk.  IMHO Ginger was simply jealous of Johns power and talent and his comments bear that out.  Most musicians will be humble and say good things about other musicians, not Baker he, as Dave Chapelle would say is always keeping it real and by real I mean shit talking other musicians because they had the light he wanted but never really got.

Edited August 21, 2018 by hummingbird69

[jabe]

Dee Snider?
Yeah, I kinda remember that name from 20-30 ....200 years ago.

 

Edited August 21, 2018 by jabe

[gibsonfan159]

2 hours ago, hummingbird69 said:

I'm sorry but I have to disagree with you. If you think John had no chops you're wrong. just watch the RAH Moby Dick. He shows incredible finesse.  Watch his crossovers and triplets on the toms he is very smooth. John also has a great onehanded roll. If you listen very hard to what he's doing you'll notice the snare never really stops ringing because he is always making it talk.  IMHO Ginger was simply jealous of Johns power and talent and his comments bear that out.  Most musicians will be humble and say good things about other musicians, not Baker he, as Dave Chapelle would say is always keeping it real and by real I mean shit talking other musicians because they had the light he wanted but never really got.

I don't want to go off the deep end with this argument, especially on the official Led Zeppelin forum, but Bonham simply payed tribute to jazz drumming. He wasn't a jazz drummer and he really couldn't get on the level of finesse that true jazz drummers played on. Bonham simply only payed tribute to jazz drumming and never really attempted to actually replicate it. Baker obviously took the opportunity to slander Bonham for that fact which really only further reveals what an insecure ass he is.

[porgie66]

4 hours ago, gibsonfan159 said:

I think this quote is often misunderstood. He said "He had technique, but he couldn't swing a stick for shit".

Now, I think Baker is an emotionally unstable asshat, but I can see his point on this. Baker was a straight up jazz drummer who for some reason joined a rock band. Bonham was influenced by jazz, but he absolutely was not a jazz drummer and he really never fell into any true jazz style. Even when he attempted jazz techniques live, it was usually overdone and simplistic. Correct me if I'm wrong, but "Swinging a stick" refers to a jazz drummer's finesse and smoothness on a kit. With all due respect, Bonham lacked finesse. He was heavy handed and usually lacked a jazz "character".

To even this out though, Baker was a shit rock drummer who could never rise above his own insecurities.

Whoa, I have to chime in here. Baker is a fucking joke as a "jazz drummer". He fancied himself one but as the saying goes... he couldn't swing from a rope! 

What he said about Bonham was ... "he couldn't swing a fucking sack of shit"... that's the quote, and it's was a real dick headed, bitter thing to say. Bonham had way more swing in his phrasing than Baker. Listen to how he sets up fills with  a lilting swinging feeling, and his beat often had that swing, never stiff and rigid like Baker often sounds. Bonham had much more finesse, technical nuance, and a better sound and feel than Baker. No contest. As someone noted above, if you watch and listen to Bonzo's drumming on the RAH Moby Dick, all of those qualities are evident in spades. Baker's solos sound one dimensional and display almost no rudimental chops, they're mostly a lot of sixteenth note flailing. But that's for another thread, maybe someone should start one.

Anyway, back to this thread....who really cares what Dee Snider thinks about Zeppelin. Yawn! 

Edited August 21, 2018 by porgie66

[IpMan]

1 hour ago, gibsonfan159 said:

I don't want to go off the deep end with this argument, especially on the official Led Zeppelin forum, but Bonham simply payed tribute to jazz drumming. He wasn't a jazz drummer and he really couldn't get on the level of finesse that true jazz drummers played on. Bonham simply only payed tribute to jazz drumming and never really attempted to actually replicate it. Baker obviously took the opportunity to slander Bonham for that fact which really only further reveals what an insecure ass he is.

One more chime if I may. For excellent examples of Bonham finesse in drumming one look no harder than GTBT from the first album. HIs patterns are an almost perfect fusion of jazz & rock, just an unbelievable drum track. Another fine example of his swing are two of Zeps most underrated tracks, Down by the Seaside & Night flight. I will end my examples with three tracks which showcase his New Orleans swing, then a jazz / rock fusion, and closing with one of the most difficult yet beautiful drum patterns in history where he combines Jazz, Latin, & Rock all in one song. Royal Orleans, Hots on for Nowhere, and Fool in the Rain.

No one can listen to those six tracks and claim Bonham could not swing, did not have finesse, or was too heavy handed. As a drummer on this forum pointed out in regard to Fool in the Rain, the man was a master with ghost notes (the very measure of finesse), while playing two different time signatures simultaneously. IMO FITR is one of the most impressive drum tracks in music history, not just rock but music in general. Swing...there was a reason he was called Bonzo, because he could swing like a goddamned monkey.

[gibsonfan159]

52 minutes ago, porgie66 said:

Baker's solos sound one dimensional and display almost no rudimental chops, they're mostly a lot of sixteenth note flailing. But that's for another thread, maybe someone should start one.

 

Absolutely! Honestly, I don't think either of these guys were true jazz players, but I will stand by my opinion that Baker was more traditional in jazz than Bonzo.

[gibsonfan159]

23 minutes ago, IpMan said:

IMO FITR is one of the most impressive drum tracks in music history, not just rock but music in general. 

Yes, I agree, but that's not jazz. Everyone brings up FITR, which is an impressive drum track, but jazz is a different zone entirely. Good jazz drummers make FITR sound like child's play. But that's a different story.