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1975 -1977 recordings,


strombringer101
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True but Seattle 72 would sound significantly 'better' or 'worse' when played on different systems, so when someone comments on a recording they hear I always like to know what they are hearing it through. If I was to buy a turntable to equal the sound I get from my current cd based system I would need to spend something like £5k on a turntable, arm, and cartridge. And £500+ on  a proper record cleaner. A cheap cd player will always sound worse than vinyl, but there comes a point where the two sound qualities even out. Also choice of speakers can make a massive difference to how a recording is presented.

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6 hours ago, WD52 said:

True but Seattle 72 would sound significantly 'better' or 'worse' when played on different systems, so when someone comments on a recording they hear I always like to know what they are hearing it through. If I was to buy a turntable to equal the sound I get from my current cd based system I would need to spend something like £5k on a turntable, arm, and cartridge. And £500+ on  a proper record cleaner. A cheap cd player will always sound worse than vinyl, but there comes a point where the two sound qualities even out. Also choice of speakers can make a massive difference to how a recording is presented.

Fair. Really eh? I had no idea turntables ran that expensive actually. I'm sure mine wasn't that much lmao. I have noticed that about the speakers, yes. I find the car speakers are the best, but we lucked out and got a Fender sound system in there that's a lot bigger than most car systems because it came with the technology package, which I convinced my mom she needed for the GPS 😈

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On 6/19/2020 at 1:57 PM, WD52 said:

This is going to sound horribly geeky, but....It is no real use discussing what shows sound like unless you explain what system you are listening to. What you might be appreciating is the way your system creates the sound rather than an objective view of the boot in question. For example the same boot sounds poorer and less dynamic when played in my car stereo, slightly better on my £200 cheap work cd player and fantastic on my £2k Roksan M2 player through similarly priced speakers and amp. And don't get me started on the current trend for vinyl-where people spend £20 on an album then play it on a £200 record player with a £20 needle and claim vinyl is superior to cd....

On the one level the idea of blasting bootlegs recorded on the finest tin can and string money could buy on a state of the art system expecting some kind of Steely Dan-esque audio experience is laughable. Mind ya, I got a good system- a thirtysomething Sony console, turntable, graphic equalizer and all, with custom speakers: 6", 10" 14" in each (homemade cherrywood speaker cabinets!). Obviously Listen To This Eddie sounds fuckin' great (as do my old For Badgeholders Only LPs)...something like the Chicago April 10 1977 show? Er, not so much...some of those shitty sounding shows actually sound better on the old CD boombox I keep around to crank up on job sites than on my old stereo system, so you may just be on to something😆

On 6/19/2020 at 10:16 AM, pluribus said:

;) FWIW, I also tend to gravitate to an older compilation (Tomislaw). 

I can't remember which version of Destroyer I have...it's old, it definitely predates any "Master Reel" version that circulates, it doesn't have that dry as a bone sound like the other '77 soundboards have. It sounds like an official live album, like, you can hear the audience and stuff, same cuts as on every other fucking version though...

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I think our expectations of how good a '75 or '77 soundboard can sound need to be revised upwards now that they can easily be remixed into stereo. Here's a sample of No Quarter from the 3/21/75 show. Having the guitar panned into both the left and right channels is a choice that I went with because I liked how it sounds, but it could as easily been placed in just the right channel like a traditional live album, similar to what I did for the 3/14/69 remaster below. The cool thing is that once you have the instruments separated from each other, there are lots of creative things that can be done with them. I'm not sure this kind of thing will ever be good enough for Jimmy to consider releasing, but I'm guessing other bands will be looking at their back catalog of soundboards and seeing an opportunity. And before anyone asks, I'm still working on the 3/21/75  show so I don't have links for it yet. 

 

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On 6/25/2020 at 6:48 PM, SteveZ98 said:

I think our expectations of how good a '75 or '77 soundboard can sound need to be revised upwards now that they can easily be remixed into stereo. Here's a sample of No Quarter from the 3/21/75 show. Having the guitar panned into both the left and right channels is a choice that I went with because I liked how it sounds, but it could as easily been placed in just the right channel like a traditional live album, similar to what I did for the 3/14/69 remaster below. The cool thing is that once you have the instruments separated from each other, there are lots of creative things that can be done with them. I'm not sure this kind of thing will ever be good enough for Jimmy to consider releasing, but I'm guessing other bands will be looking at their back catalog of soundboards and seeing an opportunity. And before anyone asks, I'm still working on the 3/21/75  show so I don't have links for it yet. 

 

That Seattle sample sounds fantastic!

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Wide sound spectrum, a lot of separation between instruments, depth, your work on the 1969 is really fantastic. But that ghost guitarist on the seattle 1975 gives a strange feeling when i listen with headphones.

yesterday I was listening to the Who  woodstock performance, the official version released on the Rhino boxset. Entwistle is on the left, Moon and Daltrey, center stage and Townsend on the right. Exactly as if I saw them on stage.

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12 minutes ago, Paloff said:

Sorry, i have to be precise, that ghost guitarist, on the left channel .....

Understood. I know not everyone will like this type of presentation but I really do, especially for the '75 and '77 shows where I think it helps fill out the "guitar army" songs. I used the more traditional arrangement you described on the 3/14/69 radio broadcast I recently released and on the upcoming version of 9/29/71 that will be out soon. I'll probably continue using it for the earlier shows, and use the more "artistic" arrangement you mentioned for the later shows.    

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On 6/25/2020 at 6:48 PM, SteveZ98 said:

I think our expectations of how good a '75 or '77 soundboard can sound need to be revised upwards now that they can easily be remixed into stereo. Here's a sample of No Quarter from the 3/21/75 show. Having the guitar panned into both the left and right channels is a choice that I went with because I liked how it sounds, but it could as easily been placed in just the right channel like a traditional live album, similar to what I did for the 3/14/69 remaster below. The cool thing is that once you have the instruments separated from each other, there are lots of creative things that can be done with them. I'm not sure this kind of thing will ever be good enough for Jimmy to consider releasing, but I'm guessing other bands will be looking at their back catalog of soundboards and seeing an opportunity. And before anyone asks, I'm still working on the 3/21/75  show so I don't have links for it yet. 

These both sound fantastic!  Thanks so much for all the great work you are doing.

By the way, that little bit of avant garde piano Jones runs into around 7:43-8:00 in the Seattle 75 clip is such a great and unique moment. Around 7:52 he sounds like Prokofiev, then goes back to his more typical Rachmaninoff type romantic piano playing. 

 

Edited by John M
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On 6/25/2020 at 5:48 PM, SteveZ98 said:

I think our expectations of how good a '75 or '77 soundboard can sound need to be revised upwards now that they can easily be remixed into stereo. Here's a sample of No Quarter from the 3/21/75 show. Having the guitar panned into both the left and right channels is a choice that I went with because I liked how it sounds, but it could as easily been placed in just the right channel like a traditional live album, similar to what I did for the 3/14/69 remaster below. The cool thing is that once you have the instruments separated from each other, there are lots of creative things that can be done with them. I'm not sure this kind of thing will ever be good enough for Jimmy to consider releasing, but I'm guessing other bands will be looking at their back catalog of soundboards and seeing an opportunity. And before anyone asks, I'm still working on the 3/21/75  show so I don't have links for it yet. 

 

Could the instrument separation help with some of the '69 shows such as 1/11 San Francisco where the recording is clear but Robert is way up front? Or opposite situations where Robert is buried? Is this similar to the reverse engineering which Abbey Road Studio has been working on or is this something different? Thank you

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44 minutes ago, cosmic_juice said:

Could the instrument separation help with some of the '69 shows such as 1/11 San Francisco where the recording is clear but Robert is way up front? Or opposite situations where Robert is buried? Is this similar to the reverse engineering which Abbey Road Studio has been working on or is this something different? Thank you

I'm not real familiar with what is being done at Abbey Road, but assuming they are extracting individual tracks from mono recordings they should be able to modify a singer's levels compared to the rest of the band. I did some preliminary work on the 1/11/69 show and it definitely is possible to put Robert's vocals inline with rest of the band. The downside to early Zep in particular is separating Robert's voice from Jimmy's guitar during the "duel" they did where they mimicked each other. The software has a hard time separating the guitar from the vocals. For this kind of thing to work, the software has to be able to recognize the sound it's trying to extract. An extreme example would be the 8/8/69 show where it sounds like the recorder was stuck inside Jimmy's amp. It won't be able to figure out what Robert was singing while Jimmy was playing because too little of the vocals were captured for it to have anything to work with.

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According to BlimpLife there might be coming a Mike Millard recording,  JEMS / Dadgad remastered release of the LA 03-11-1975 show.

今回のインフォ "led_zeppelin_long_beach_arena_long_beach_ca_1975_03_11_Millard_JEMS" には非常に興味深い内容が書かれている。特に、Nakamichi550とAKG451がLed Zeppelinの1975年ツアーのために購入されたことや、この日が車椅子のデビュー戦(厳密に言うと友人の車椅子)だったことが面白い。
待望のミラードマスター、1975-03-11 Long Beach が上がった! その昔、初めて聴いたときには「これは SBD ではなかろうか?」と思ったほどの高音質音源のマスターが聴ける幸せ。。。Led Zeppelin, Long Beach Arena, Long Beach, CA, March 11, 1975
Mike Millard Master Tapes via JEMS and Dadgad

Google Translate:

This info "led_zeppelin_long_beach_arena_long_beach_ca_1975_03_11_Millard_JEMS" has very interesting contents. In particular, it's interesting that the Nakamichi550 and AKG451 were purchased for Led Zeppelin's 1975 tour, and that day was the wheelchair debut (strictly speaking, a friend's wheelchair). Long-awaited Mirrored Master, 1975-03-11 Long Beach is up! A long time ago, when I first listened to it, I was happy to hear the master of high-quality sound sources that I thought, "Is this not SBD?" .. .. Led Zeppelin Long Beach Arena Long Beach, CA March 11, 1975 Mike Millard Master Tapes via JEMS and Dadgad

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1 hour ago, Moby_Dick_Ale said:

According to BlimpLife there might be coming a Mike Millard recording,  JEMS / Dadgad remastered release of the LA 03-11-1975 show.

今回のインフォ "led_zeppelin_long_beach_arena_long_beach_ca_1975_03_11_Millard_JEMS" には非常に興味深い内容が書かれている。特に、Nakamichi550とAKG451がLed Zeppelinの1975年ツアーのために購入されたことや、この日が車椅子のデビュー戦(厳密に言うと友人の車椅子)だったことが面白い。
待望のミラードマスター、1975-03-11 Long Beach が上がった! その昔、初めて聴いたときには「これは SBD ではなかろうか?」と思ったほどの高音質音源のマスターが聴ける幸せ。。。Led Zeppelin, Long Beach Arena, Long Beach, CA, March 11, 1975
Mike Millard Master Tapes via JEMS and Dadgad

Google Translate:

This info "led_zeppelin_long_beach_arena_long_beach_ca_1975_03_11_Millard_JEMS" has very interesting contents. In particular, it's interesting that the Nakamichi550 and AKG451 were purchased for Led Zeppelin's 1975 tour, and that day was the wheelchair debut (strictly speaking, a friend's wheelchair). Long-awaited Mirrored Master, 1975-03-11 Long Beach is up! A long time ago, when I first listened to it, I was happy to hear the master of high-quality sound sources that I thought, "Is this not SBD?" .. .. Led Zeppelin Long Beach Arena Long Beach, CA March 11, 1975 Mike Millard Master Tapes via JEMS and Dadgad

Thieves, shame on them. MM must be turning in his grave. MM taped for free trade, not for some maggots to profit from his work. It's not hard to find his work for free, that's how the boot labels got them. Oh yeah, they're on silvers with some nice pretty picture art work, big f'in deal. In honour of the memory of MM everybody should only download them.

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1 hour ago, JTM said:

Thieves, shame on them. MM must be turning in his grave. MM taped for free trade, not for some maggots to profit from his work. It's not hard to find his work for free, that's how the boot labels got them. Oh yeah, they're on silvers with some nice pretty picture art work, big f'in deal. In honour of the memory of MM everybody should only download them.

100% agree with this. . The fact that they will be in the hundreds of dollars is equally pathetic. . 

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3 hours ago, Moby_Dick_Ale said:

According to BlimpLife there might be coming a Mike Millard recording,  JEMS / Dadgad remastered release of the LA 03-11-1975 show.

今回のインフォ "led_zeppelin_long_beach_arena_long_beach_ca_1975_03_11_Millard_JEMS" には非常に興味深い内容が書かれている。特に、Nakamichi550とAKG451がLed Zeppelinの1975年ツアーのために購入されたことや、この日が車椅子のデビュー戦(厳密に言うと友人の車椅子)だったことが面白い。
待望のミラードマスター、1975-03-11 Long Beach が上がった! その昔、初めて聴いたときには「これは SBD ではなかろうか?」と思ったほどの高音質音源のマスターが聴ける幸せ。。。Led Zeppelin, Long Beach Arena, Long Beach, CA, March 11, 1975
Mike Millard Master Tapes via JEMS and Dadgad

Google Translate:

This info "led_zeppelin_long_beach_arena_long_beach_ca_1975_03_11_Millard_JEMS" has very interesting contents. In particular, it's interesting that the Nakamichi550 and AKG451 were purchased for Led Zeppelin's 1975 tour, and that day was the wheelchair debut (strictly speaking, a friend's wheelchair). Long-awaited Mirrored Master, 1975-03-11 Long Beach is up! A long time ago, when I first listened to it, I was happy to hear the master of high-quality sound sources that I thought, "Is this not SBD?" .. .. Led Zeppelin Long Beach Arena Long Beach, CA March 11, 1975 Mike Millard Master Tapes via JEMS and Dadgad

1 hour ago, JTM said:

Thieves, shame on them. MM must be turning in his grave. MM taped for free trade, not for some maggots to profit from his work. It's not hard to find his work for free, that's how the boot labels got them. Oh yeah, they're on silvers with some nice pretty picture art work, big f'in deal. In honour of the memory of MM everybody should only download them.

Don't even bother with this. The DAT transfer was horribly done. Listen to IMTOD and TSRTS. There's so much top end that there's a compressed sound on the guitar, vocals, and hi hat. At times, it's actually distorted, resulting in a "fuzz" sound. They uploaded a "flat" transfer without Dadgad's processing and it has pretty much the same problems. Terrible.

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49 minutes ago, ZepHead315 said:

Don't even bother with this. The DAT transfer was horribly done. Listen to IMTOD and TSRTS. There's so much top end that there's a compressed sound on the guitar, vocals, and hi hat. At times, it's actually distorted, resulting in a "fuzz" sound. They uploaded a "flat" transfer without Dadgad's processing and it has pretty much the same problems. Terrible.

Are you referring to the new Dime upload ? If so why say "don't bother", it's free isn't it, so what's the problem. I've listened to it twice today, sounds pretty good to me. Horrible it most definitely is not.

Edit. I just noticed two versions were uploaded to DAD, I just grabbed the Flat transfer which I will listen to and compare tomorrow.

Edited by JTM
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43 minutes ago, JTM said:

Are you referring to the new Dime upload ? If so why say "don't bother", it's free isn't it, so what's the problem. I've listened to it twice today, sounds pretty good to me. Horrible it most definitely is not.

Edit. I just noticed two versions were uploaded to DAD, I just grabbed the Flat transfer which I will listen to and compare tomorrow.

The problem is that it's a butchered transfer. Sure, it is free, but I'm saying don't bother because there are better versions of the show out there. The problem is mainly in the high frequencies, and as we age, we lose the ability to hear within that range. If you're a baby boomer (and I'm not saying this to insult you, just stating a fact) then it's possible your ears cannot detect the excessive brightness. If so, enjoy it by all means. To my ears though, it's not worth listening to.

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2 hours ago, JTM said:

Thieves, shame on them. MM must be turning in his grave. MM taped for free trade, not for some maggots to profit from his work. It's not hard to find his work for free, that's how the boot labels got them. Oh yeah, they're on silvers with some nice pretty picture art work, big f'in deal. In honour of the memory of MM everybody should only download them.

I guess that's something we have to deal with nowadays. When it's on the net for free, within a month you can buy silvers. Just like all the work Winston has done: free for everyone to download, also for the guys at Moonchild Records who ask $ 11.- for every cd.

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For those who are doubting what I am saying, here's a quick comparison of the intro to IMTOD. It switches back and forth between the Dadgad master (which is the first part) and the 1st gen. Notice how the Dadgad master has excessive brightness to the point where there are noticeable artifacts and a slight bit of distortion/fuzz. The 1st gen doesn't have that issue and (in my opinion at least) sounds better:

 

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7 hours ago, ZepHead315 said:

The problem is that it's a butchered transfer. Sure, it is free, but I'm saying don't bother because there are better versions of the show out there. The problem is mainly in the high frequencies, and as we age, we lose the ability to hear within that range. If you're a baby boomer (and I'm not saying this to insult you, just stating a fact) then it's possible your ears cannot detect the excessive brightness. If so, enjoy it by all means. To my ears though, it's not worth listening to.

I'm 63, I no longer listen to music LOUD loud, 11 o'clock on the volume dial is enough for me, on top of that I also have tinnitus that I've had for getting on for eight years now.  I got the tinnitus listening to HTWWW at an ear splitting volume level in my car on the less than ten min drive to the supermarket Oct 2012. I always had the volume up driving (on my own). I'd get out of the car and if my ears weren't ringing a little it hadn't been loud enough, this particular day  I got out of the car and the ringing never stopped.

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8 hours ago, Moby_Dick_Ale said:

I guess that's something we have to deal with nowadays. When it's on the net for free, within a month you can buy silvers. Just like all the work Winston has done: free for everyone to download, also for the guys at Moonchild Records who ask $ 11.- for every cd.

Even $11 is too much. I rarely ever burn to CD these days, straight to a HD or USB. One time any worthy download went to CD with printed off cover art, I have boxes full in my attic, if I fancy listening to a show that is up there I just download it again (if it's still seeded), I can have it again in less than the time it takes to go up into the attic.  I do have about twenty favourites on shelf in my man cave.

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