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Cozy 4ever

Does anyone have any controversial opinions about Zep?

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I love listening to people talk about Page and Plant like they know them. We are just some fans on a forum who know little or nothing other than what we read. My favorite is the "how inconsistent" and "sloppy" page is as a guitarist after 75. By 1975 he had changed the sound of modern music, recorded some of the most compelling guitar solos ever played , sold millions albums, and broke attendance records all over the world.

Addiction destroyed this band. Jimmy page is one of the best guitar players who ever lived. Case closed. 

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2 hours ago, LurksReturnington said:

My grandmother gave me a Rachmaninoff record that year. After a while I decided I did not like the sound of the sustain pedal being down all the time. I disapprove of grand piano with Zep. 1975 and 77 tours remind me of the Rachmaninoff fad of the mid 70s.

I do hear some influences from Rachmaninoff, but there are alot of times that Jones' playing is in a much more percussive and propulsive style (without pedal) reminiscent of Prokofiev.

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1 hour ago, miker1102 said:

I love listening to people talk about Page and Plant like they know them. We are just some fans on a forum who know little or nothing other than what we read. My favorite is the "how inconsistent" and "sloppy" page is as a guitarist after 75. By 1975 he had changed the sound of modern music, recorded some of the most compelling guitar solos ever played , sold millions albums, and broke attendance records all over the world.

Addiction destroyed this band. Jimmy page is one of the best guitar players who ever lived. Case closed. 

I don't need to know them in person, I have my ears and zillion bootlegs out there. For example, there's a big difference between Los Angeles Forum on June 25, 1972 and Earls Court in 1975. In studio, that's another story.

 

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4 hours ago, John M said:

I do hear some influences from Rachmaninoff, but there are alot of times that Jones' playing is in a much more percussive and propulsive style (without pedal) reminiscent of Prokofiev.

Knowing them personally and knowing what sloppy playing is are two different things.

Edit: Was responding to the quote below.

"I love listening to people talk about Page and Plant like they know them. We are just some fans on a forum who know little or nothing other than what we read. My favorite is the "how inconsistent" and "sloppy" page is as a guitarist after 75. By 1975 he had changed the sound of modern music, recorded some of the most compelling guitar solos ever played , sold millions albums, and broke attendance records all over the world.

Addiction destroyed this band. Jimmy page is one of the best guitar players who ever lived. Case closed. "

Edited by gibsonfan159

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Jimmy Page had terrible fashion sense until 72. That ZOSO sweater was cringe inducing, I don't care if his grandma did make it.

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i want that you know that this section show many statements of bad taste and show lack of preparation in saying certain opinions
about the group, and this opinion that the group was fantastic only up to 73 is not sure, why from 74 the groups sound
changed a lot and it became less wild but it became more beautiful and remained extravagent at least until 77, and apparently
in the shows the group became more lazy, but I think thatonly changed of style and to say that the members worsened in the capacity
to play is not true, because the truth is that the members of the group never showed in shows all their capacity, and the difference
in quality of the shows is also a type of originality in the sense of creating differences from one show to the other, and i think
the members of the group are fantastic musicians but with a personal style maybe not accurate musical technique
but if you get too into the technique you are very similar to others who have a lot of technique, and
in this case i prefer the personal style, and the members of the group had a fantastic originality that the great majority
of the instrumentalists of much technique did not have and that counting all styles of music this is sure
and thank you.

 

 

 

Edited by marcio614

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7 hours ago, gibsonfan159 said:

Hats Off To Roy Harper is a badass country blues tribute. Those who don't like it don't get it.

Absolutely love Hats..

6 hours ago, gibsonfan159 said:

Jimmy Page had terrible fashion sense until 72. That ZOSO sweater was cringe inducing, I don't care if his grandma did make it.

Nah, those suits he wore after 73 look ridiculous.

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Back to NQ 1975.  I don't know if this is controversial, but this thread got me to go back to the LA Forum 1975 NQ jams - they have been my favorites for many years.  I think those jams represent some of the finest ensemble improvisation the band ever did.  Ever.  Very creative. To me it is some of Page's most interesting playing - he is inventing a new style and taking to another level.  And of course Jones and Bonham are superb.

I understand that they could have shortened NQ and added more songs but these types of improvisations and explorations are what make live Zeppelin so special.  For years when I got a 1975 show I would focus on NQ because of the variations every night.  I am glad we have these long versions to explore.

Edited by John M

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In regards to the 1975 tour, you have to understand that tour was supposed to have a "Best of" setlist. That was the plan from the start. Zep were pushed up to the top of the food chain in 73 and demand was so large for them that the 75 tour became more about putting on a giant circus act show to solidify their reputation as the best live rock act. Therefore, everything that could be expanded or stretched out, was. The setlist (according to the Plantations) was meant to combine all their old material with a few new songs. 

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Page, Plant and even Bonzo might not have been the greatest individual musicians in their fields, but they jelled together to be form the greatest rock band ever.

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1 hour ago, John M said:

Back to NQ 1975.  I don't know if this is controversial, but this thread got me to go back to the LA Forum 1975 NQ jams - they have been my favorites for many years.  I think those jams represent some of the finest ensemble improvisation the band ever did.  Ever.  Very creative. To me it is some of Page's most interesting playing - he is inventing a new style and taking to another level.  And of course Jones and Bonham are superb.

I understand that they could have shortened NQ and added more songs but these types of improvisations and explorations are what make live Zeppelin so special.  For years when I got a 1975 show I would focus on NQ because of the variations every night.  I am glad we have these long versions to explore.

Yeah, especially in Zeppelin's case, performance is not always measured by best technique.

It's not like band didn't know each other well musically in Europe 1973, but in certain aspects they reached new and very artistic improvisational heights in 1975!

Edited by SamoKodela

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On ‎2‎/‎1‎/‎2019 at 4:37 PM, gibsonfan159 said:

 

 

I think you're wrong and incapable of seeing past your nose. No offense.

 

 

Please explain your statement and give detailed reasons and examples why you believe my statement was false.

Here is a nice little video to substantiate my position made by an actual drummer. Enjoy:

 

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2 hours ago, PeaceFrogYum said:

Please explain your statement and give detailed reasons and examples why you believe my statement was false.

Here is a nice little video to substantiate my position made by an actual drummer. Enjoy:

 

I can't help you understand and I've seen all the Bonham worship videos.

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Kashmir had a more impressive drum track than Levee. I don't know why people rave about that simplistic groove (aided by echo effects btw) so much. 

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Just to balance my opinion on Bonham's drumming, he wasn't near as stiff as Peart. Or 90% of other rock drummers.  

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1 hour ago, gibsonfan159 said:

Just to balance my opinion on Bonham's drumming, he wasn't near as stiff as Peart. Or 90% of other rock drummers.  

Was a back handed compliment your intention, 'cause that really only serves your "not a real drummer" theory. Is there a forum somewhere where you spend time celebrating real drummers?

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2 minutes ago, Badgeholder Still said:

Is there a forum somewhere where you spend time celebrating real drummers?

Yes, but Bonham fans tend to get their panties in a wad. 

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17 minutes ago, Badgeholder Still said:

And you like that?

Ok, listen up. GO BACK AND READ THE TITLE OF THIS THREAD. 

I just don't know about this over sensitive generation.

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1 minute ago, gibsonfan159 said:

Ok, listen up. GO BACK AND READ THE TITLE OF THIS THREAD. 

I just don't know about this over sensitive generation.

Easy bruh, you're the one gettin' tense. I only asked a simile question. Are you here to wad panties?

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41 minutes ago, gibsonfan159 said:

Yes, but Bonham fans tend to get their panties in a wad. 

I'm honestly curious. Timestamping Jimmy Page's "wrong" notes. Disparaging the highly regarded skills of widely beloved lost brother. Controversial opinions are one thing. I'm just not convinced your agenda is to celebrate Led Zeppelin.

Are you open to opposing opinions and a discussion? Here's how another poster who disagreed with you was answered...

I think you're wrong and incapable of seeing past your nose. No offense.  

No offence. Lol. You don't seem to take criticism well. 

The thread title asks for controversial opinions. It doesn't promise you won't be asked to answer for them.

 

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9 hours ago, Badgeholder Still said:

Timestamping Jimmy Page's "wrong" notes

I also timestamp his good playing. Guess you missed that.

 

9 hours ago, Badgeholder Still said:

Are you open to opposing opinions and a discussion? Here's how another poster who disagreed with you was answered

This was in response to my criticism. I wasn't the one getting upset in a "controversial opinions" thread.

 

9 hours ago, Badgeholder Still said:

It doesn't promise you won't be asked to answer for them.

I can answer all day long, but the fanboys won't recognize truth.

 

9 hours ago, Badgeholder Still said:

I'm just not convinced your agenda is to celebrate Led Zeppelin.

Get out with that bullcrap. You're honestly so daft that you think I'd spend hours a day listening to bootlegs, listening to every single note played, and marking both the good and bad just to troll people in a specific forum about a specific band? Oh wait, just like the other person you can't see past you're nose. Sounds like you're just a little upset at some honest critique. 

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20 hours ago, gibsonfan159 said:

I can't help you understand and I've seen all the Bonham worship videos.

You really cannot make anyone understand if you cannot present a valid, knowledgeable argument. I respect your opinion though, just hoping for a greater technical reasoning for your position along the lines the guy in the video gave for his.

Though I do have semi-controversial comment: Regarding the high business acumen both Page & Grant had, the fact that both succumbed to addiction which ultimately destroyed the band was beyond irresponsible. Sure, it was the 70's but when management goes off the rails, holy shit! 1974 and the apathetic attitude toward Swan Song was the first sign the band needed to either give Peter an ultimatum or find new management. Most are not aware but both Queen and Elvis were considered for Swan Song however both declined due to lack of follow-up by Grant. Queen in particular was very, very keen to join the label but after so many unreturned calls they moved on. SS was in the right place at the right time to either start the careers of some of music's brightest talent or take them to the next level but no, the only other act they had which really went anywhere was Bad Company. Talk about a missed opportunity. Grant's main focus from 74' on should have been Swan Song, not Zep as they had solidly made it by then. Just imagine Zep with sober, strong management from 75' on. 

So there is my controversial opinion, Grant was the best thing for Zeppelin from 68' - 73' and then the absolute worse thing for Zeppelin after 74'.

 

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32 minutes ago, PeaceFrogYum said:

You really cannot make anyone understand if you cannot present a valid, knowledgeable argument. I respect your opinion though, just hoping for a greater technical reasoning for your position along the lines the guy in the video gave for his.

Go watch a few proper jazz and swing drummers and you'll realize Bonzo did little more than steal their beats and add muscle to them to sound more impressive in the rock world. But on a technical proficiency level, he was a few notches below. I can't make you understand truly sophisticated drumming techniques, but this is true. The "Fool In The Rain"  beat is nothing more than a Purdie shuffle played in a pop context. (What's that? Bonham "borrowed" riffs too?)

Now with that said, you need to understand my original comment. In no way shape or form am I discrediting what Bonzo did and achieved. I'm just saying that I get tired of the fanboys talking about his "complexity" when I know by mind and heart he was only complex to rock fandom. Outside of that, he wouldn't stand a chance.  And yes, he dominated the rock world with amazing grooves, syncopation, and heavy handed technique. But I will always stand by my opinion that despite all that, he was stiff as a board.

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