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Cozy 4ever

Does anyone have any controversial opinions about Zep?

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On ‎2‎/‎8‎/‎2019 at 2:37 PM, gibsonfan159 said:

I don't think it was a case of anything being over demanding. It was more that songs like TYG sounded thin without some rhythm guitar. Although I don't think Jones'contribution made a difference anyway. So my controversial opinion is that Jones should've tossed that three necked turkey (which looked ridiculous anyway) in the trash and just provided Page with a bass line instead.

Kinda difficult for one guitarist to play six guitar parts, some in different tunings, simultaneously. IMO to sound right they needed a co-lead situation / multi-instrumentalist to support both Page & Jones. Of course the Goldilocks situation would have had old Robert learn to at least play a decent rhythm guitar to fill out the sound as well. A perfect example of a relatively simple song which just never sounded right live was Sick Again. s soon as Jimmy goes into the solo the song sounds thin as hell without the rhythm guitar. I agree with that stupid three necked guitar, plus it sounded like shit compared to the 12 string Ovation he used on the first leg of the tour. It would be one thing if he used two necks for one song but all the video I have seen where Jones uses the three necked monster, he only plays one neck during a single song. I mean how hard is it to put a guitar down and pick up another between songs?

It really made a difference hearing those Zep tunes with Porl (now Pearl) Thompson playing rhythm / co-lead, especially TSRTS. Big difference. Same with the Crowes.

I believe we may be on the same "page" with this one :D

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Immigrant song is the most poorly produced song in their catalog. It sounds dull and the amount of tape hiss at the beginning of the song is awful.

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4 minutes ago, tyler19 said:

Immigrant song is the most poorly produced song in their catalog. It sounds dull and the amount of tape hiss at the beginning of the song is awful.

I think the hiss at the start is cool and the sound is something special too, I just wish Robert would articulate the words more precisely, he does it on all the other songs on the album pretty much. I guess it makes the song more mysterious though.

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4 minutes ago, SamoKodela said:

I think the hiss at the start is cool and the sound is something special too, I just wish Robert would articulate the words more precisely, he does it on all the other songs on the album pretty much. I guess it makes the song more mysterious though.

The tape hiss makes me think the song was bounced too many times in its creation and this is the cause of the dullness as well.

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...maybe the hiss is due to re-using a tape....he's famous for doing that and getting bleed through on some songs.

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12 minutes ago, tyler19 said:

The tape hiss makes me think the song was bounced too many times in its creation and this is the cause of the dullness as well.

Bounced in a viking ship, yeah!!!

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The hiss at the beginning of Immigrant Song always sounded deliberate to me. Much like the little bit of guitar chugging at the beginning of Black Dog, the Plant grunt before Whole Lotta Love kicks in, or the studio chatter before Friends. It’s not like the whole song is loaded with hiss. Immigrant Song does start out very thin though because John Paul Jones’ Bass comes in after a bit. 

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On 2/12/2019 at 7:49 PM, the chase said:

The hiss at the beginning of Immigrant Song always sounded deliberate to me. Much like the little bit of guitar chugging at the beginning of Black Dog, the Plant grunt before Whole Lotta Love kicks in, or the studio chatter before Friends. It’s not like the whole song is loaded with hiss. Immigrant Song does start out very thin though because John Paul Jones’ Bass comes in after a bit. 

Agreed. Those little “intros” were obviously deliberate and interesting...unlike other bands...along with The Ocean, Black Country Woman, and others. 

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On 2/12/2019 at 7:18 PM, tyler19 said:

Immigrant song is the most poorly produced song in their catalog. It sounds dull and the amount of tape hiss at the beginning of the song is awful.

 

On 2/12/2019 at 7:30 PM, tyler19 said:

The tape hiss makes me think the song was bounced too many times in its creation and this is the cause of the dullness as well.

 

On 2/12/2019 at 7:44 PM, Stryder1978 said:

...maybe the hiss is due to re-using a tape....he's famous for doing that and getting bleed through on some songs.

It's definitely deliberate, and it's not tape hiss (or at least it's not a product of too much bouncing like with 'She's so heavy' by The Beatles).  It's the sound of an echorec (or similar) delay unit with the feedback set high - the same device Page used with the theremin on stage.

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Posted (edited)

Most controversial?

 

- I'd have to say I assume that in their Prime, like many great talents be they athletes or businessmen, I probably wouldn't have personally enjoyed any of their company save for JPJ who seemed the most grounded (or maybe the best actor).   Who knows how well known people are when you really know them, we only vie them from afar and through stories, and much of the negative stories came from the alcohol and youth, but, just from early interviews, they were arrogant, maybe even outright A-Holes.  Musically they had earned that Right I suppose and they certainly weren't alone in the industry.

- Another somewhat controversial concept is that I think they stole LESS from the Blues than they are accused of.  It was due to Plants lazy writing efforts of these blues songs early that caused their bad reputation.  Songs like When the Levee Breaks are nothing like the originals, save for lyrics.

- Without Page there is no Led Zeppelin.  Before, during or even today with the reissues.  Everyone agrees nobody could be replaced and still be called Led Zeppelin, I always felt any of the other three could be replaced with lesser talent and they would still be a great band, Page was irreplaceable, without him you had little to nothing.

- Grant was the 5th member of the group, a major part of their success, even as he was probably also responsible for much of their bad press and reputation

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Canadianzepper
add

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Now this is controversial!

 

21 hours ago, Canadianzepper said:

 I always felt any of the other three could be replaced with lesser talent and they would still be a great band, Page was irreplaceable, without him you had little to nothing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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On 3/2/2019 at 9:57 PM, hummingbird69 said:

Now this is controversial!

 

 

When asked, I deliver  :)

Yes, all very talented musicians obviously, but without Pages talent, vision, producing, they would make a great band together, but not the Legend they are.

 

Consider that Plant and Bonham were in the Band of Joy together prior to Zeppelin.  Page was just on another planet.

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i want that you know that if this topic is to make criticism i can defend the group against these criticisms, and most of them are made for
lack of knowledge about the ability of group members, and one comment i am going to make is about the bonhams ability to play louder
than all the others, i often see great technical drummers saying that playing loud is arrogance, but I do not think so, i think thats a great
quality if its done at a high level, and many of those who say that this is not important, say because it is not capable of doing this, and
the drums is one of the instruments that the sound get fantastic even without amplification, and whoever plays loud and well done
reaches other dimensions of sound, and playing drums is not just technique, i think that many old drummers know how to do well
but there is the factor that is a mixture of strength and technique that the younger ones do better and this is sure
and thank you.

 

 

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On 2/3/2019 at 3:38 PM, miker1102 said:

I love listening to people talk about Page and Plant like they know them. We are just some fans on a forum who know little or nothing other than what we read. My favorite is the "how inconsistent" and "sloppy" page is as a guitarist after 75. By 1975 he had changed the sound of modern music, recorded some of the most compelling guitar solos ever played , sold millions albums, and broke attendance records all over the world.

Addiction destroyed this band. Jimmy page is one of the best guitar players who ever lived. Case closed. 

THANK YOU! 

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On 3/2/2019 at 12:44 AM, Canadianzepper said:

Most controversial?

 

- I'd have to say I assume that in their Prime, like many great talents be they athletes or businessmen, I probably wouldn't have personally enjoyed any of their company save for JPJ who seemed the most grounded (or maybe the best actor).   Who knows how well known people are when you really know them, we only vie them from afar and through stories, and much of the negative stories came from the alcohol and youth, but, just from early interviews, they were arrogant, maybe even outright A-Holes.  Musically they had earned that Right I suppose and they certainly weren't alone in the industry.

- Another somewhat controversial concept is that I think they stole LESS from the Blues than they are accused of.  It was due to Plants lazy writing efforts of these blues songs early that caused their bad reputation.  Songs like When the Levee Breaks are nothing like the originals, save for lyrics.

- Without Page there is no Led Zeppelin.  Before, during or even today with the reissues.  Everyone agrees nobody could be replaced and still be called Led Zeppelin, I always felt any of the other three could be replaced with lesser talent and they would still be a great band, Page was irreplaceable, without him you had little to nothing.

- Grant was the 5th member of the group, a major part of their success, even as he was probably also responsible for much of their bad press and reputation

 

 

 

 

 

Ironic that if you feel he basically made the band, he's been the least successful post Zep apart from his time with Plant. You are of course entitled to your opinion but I would have to say that they wouldn't have been Zep if it weren't the combination of all four of them equally. 

I don't think Plant's songwriting was lazy. I think he was developing it. Lyrically he's much stronger post Zep IMO but I don't attribute that to laziness. 

I do agree that I wouldn't have wanted to hang with them during that time either. 

 

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On ‎1‎/‎30‎/‎2019 at 1:22 PM, LurksReturnington said:

Steve A Jones once reccommended Huey Lewis as singer for PB & J band. 

Yes, I did. Vociferously on many occasions. Huey Lewis would have been the perfect fit socially and musically for that band, especially if they wanted to do new material.

 

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On ‎1‎/‎30‎/‎2019 at 1:22 PM, LurksReturnington said:

Steve A Jones once reccommended Huey Lewis as singer for PB & J band. 

Yes, I did. Vociferously on many occasions. Huey Lewis would have been the perfect fit socially and musically for that band, especially if they wanted to do new material.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHV--LQxgqM 

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