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TheStairwayRemainsTheSame
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gibsonfan159

gibsonfan159

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8 hours ago, TheStairwayRemainsTheSame said:

Also no one ever found it funny how ONLY the sections of D&C and WLL were soundtracked on the European leg?

I think they probably recorded the heavily improvised sections from this tour to listen back and see what works and what doesn't. Kind of like athletes watching film from their last game.

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SteveAJones

SteveAJones

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8 hours ago, TheStairwayRemainsTheSame said:

Also no one ever found it funny how ONLY the sections of D&C and WLL were soundtracked on the European leg?

It's nothing to do with the absurd notion that TSRTS is Mobile, Alabama. Additionally, not everything that gets recorded ends up in circulation.

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jsj

jsj

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On 25 October 2019 at 5:14 PM, TheStairwayRemainsTheSame said:

Also no one ever found it funny how ONLY the sections of D&C and WLL were soundtracked on the European leg?

What is it you're suggesting here?  I don't get it and I'd like to 

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SamoKodela

SamoKodela

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I can not be completely sure whats wrong with you, I don't know you, but if you want to convince us there is something speciffically different about you, you have to be avare, you don't have to know the whole 9'th symphony in your mind for that or even a whole live Stairway solo.

I don't know any such person that can do that, but the thing is you are perhaps trying to fool us anyway.

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PeaceFrogYum

PeaceFrogYum

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On 10/23/2019 at 2:36 PM, ZepHead315 said:

I'm the uploader of the video you linked, and using YouTube's algorithms to back up your argument won't do you any favors. They are faulty at best. I once uploaded a Zeppelin show, and YouTube flagged it for copyright claiming that I had used a song from the heavy metal band Saxon. Obviously, I did not, but the algorithm said I did. This kind of thing happens all the time. I tried uploading Toronto 1971, and YouTube claimed I had used Stairway from BBC Sessions. It's done by bots which are very prone to error and thus not reliable by any stretch of the imagination.

Now THAT is funny

BTW, whatever happened to Saxon, those naughty boys.

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Nathan

Nathan

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Oh my god this thread...

Quick question to OP. You know that we did indeed land on the moon, right? And that the earth is an oblate spheroid... not flat?

But seriously... I never, in my life, thought I'd see a conspiracy theory about the audio used on a live show.

We know exactly where the audio from The Song Remains the Same comes from. It comes from 3 shows at Madison Square Garden in 1973 (July 27th, 28th, and 29th). Some of the footage was shot on a sound stage, but the audio is all from those four shows. 

I noticed, OP, that you ignored SteveAJone's link to The Garden Tapes, which is a website that breaks down exactly what audio sources are used for Led Zeppelin official live releases, and how they're use. Here's that link again. I suggest you click on it and learn something... and stop dabbling in conspiracy theories, my dude. They aren't good for your mental health...

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Ram4

Ram4

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On 10/21/2019 at 3:23 PM, TheStairwayRemainsTheSame said:

 

 

Listen to NQ and D&C tell me it's not verbatim "MSG"...

Those are just the ones you can get the nuances from, stuff like Black Dog and RnR it sounds EXACTLY the same

Celebration Day too, that solo is only doable once and all the intricate parts are here and on the 07 remaster

Either Pagey was channelling himself from the future or it's the same fucking show spliced up.

I haven't been on here in years and have been in hiding on Tatooine.  But I felt a disturbance in the force... 

Everything you just said is WRONG. 

(1) Your knowledge of stage recording is wrong and (2) your ears can't tell the difference.  So now here I am.  I have played music for over 30 years including live shows on stages, have set up multitrack recording for a couple of live shows in a live setting, can play music by ear, and have been listening to TSRTS since 1986 (all before you were born).  That likely makes me more qualified than you on both topics. 

Let's start with your interpretation of what a soundboard recording is.  It's a two track recording, either mono or stereo, left and right channels from the front of house board (what the audience hears) or from a stage monitor board (what the band hears on stage; today they use in-ear monitors).  It is NOT the same as a multitrack recording which was used to make TSRTS.  To record TSRTS, they had to hire a mobile recording truck (maybe that is what confused you?  You thought it was just a truck in Mobile?!😀) with a balance engineer, tape operator and maybe a supervisor.  Eddie Kramer was hired to man the mobile (NOT in Mobile - following me so far?) truck parked in New York at MSG for the three shows in July.  They ADDED overhead condenser microphones above the drum kit.  The only time you will EVER see that is when the show is being recorded to multitrack for a live album, concert film or maybe radio/TV broadcast.  So take a look at the TSRTS film or photos of the New York shows.  She the two overhead mics IN ADDITION to the standard overhead mics (similar to what Plant holds) that are ALWAYS over the drums?  There are 4 microphones.  Two for recording, two for the F.O.H. SOUNDBOARD.  There are also extra mics all over the kit, and on extra in front of the bass drum.  Same thing in the Los Angeles and Long Beach 1972 shows or Tokyo and Osaka 1971 shows which were all recorded to multitrack.  None of those extra microphones were there in Mobile.  So visually I just debunked your theory of it being recorded to multitrack.  But you think you're smart, and very stubborn, and you still "know what you hear."

Moving on.  An unbalanced, unmixed two track soundboard tape cannot be truly blended with a multitrack tape.  If that was possible, we would have gotten Ten Years Gone from Knebworth on the 2003 DVD.  Jimmy wanted to use it so badly.  But the guitar was not recorded to multitrack.  Only present on the board tape (in the video you probably have as well which is not the multitrack audio).  Jimmy had the multitracks.  This would be far EASIER than simply blending the Mobile board tape (as you claim they did) with TSRTS audio because Mobile would stand out like a sore thumb,  But no - he PASSED on using the soundboard tape of Ten Years Gone because the audio would not match the rest of the performance.

With a multitrack you can mix all of the mic'd tracks as you like.  Guitar up high, bring the bass drum down a bit, tweak the ride cymbal, put JPJ bass in the left channel, etc.  You can't do any of that with a soundboard tape.  It's all mixed down on the fly during the show.  They are mixing live as the show goes based on what they are hearing at the mixing desk in the audience.  The only reason there is a tape is if a tape deck or reel was plugged in to record from it.  There are usually no audience microphones either for a board tape. 

As far as the audio comparison goes.  Let me tell you a story.

Around 1990 (before you were born), I first saw a chunk of the Royal Albert Hall 1970 film.  It was dark, grainy, edited and amazing to finally see.  We're Gonna Groove and I Can't Quit You Baby were the first two songs on this video and are the first two songs they played that night as you know.  Backtrack to Coda.  There is a studio version of We're Gonna Groove (from June 25, 1969) and a SOUND REHEARSAL version of I Can't Quit You Baby (from January 9, 1970) that is edited (though it doesn't say edited on Coda) from that same night at the Albert Hall.  The moment I heard We're Gonna Groove I instantly recognized Plant's vocal.  It sounded exactly the same.  I played Coda and the video side by side at the same time and it WAS a 100% match.  Hmm...  Apparently there was some fancy editing done to make a "faked" studio recording for Coda.  Jimmy used a "sub octivider" on it.  That didn't exist in 1969.  So now I speculated that We're Gonna Groove was actually live and from the Albert Hall show.  But I Can't Quit You Baby was 100% from the show.  They chopped off the intro, and cut to the final chorus after the solo because Robert says "Jimmy Page guitar" and the crowd applauds.  That certainly would blow their story of it being from a rehearsal.  Well the video and audio of ICQYB lined up perfectly of course and I spread the word to fans I knew who were unaware.  There was one guy who refused to believe me.  He insisted that the version on Coda was a rehearsal and that the band simply did it IDENTICALLY that night!  To this day it's one of the most unbelievably naive comments I've heard in Zep circles.  Sure enough when the 10 CD box came out and people knew the truth, the credits on Coda changed to both songs being recorded live at the Albert Hall concert.  Now here you are trying to usurp that guy as #1.  Are you sure you want to do that?  All your credibility will be gone (well it's already gone among the big collectors).  Just do us a favor.  Play the Mobile version AT THE SAME TIME as TSRTS version you are saying is the same.  The answer will become obvious.  But don't forget which TSRTS versions are edited from other nights in New York per Eddie Edwards.  The Celebration Day solo is NOT the same on the original TSRTS and the 2007 expanded version as you claim (and is 100% not the solo from Mobile!)  Just play the two TSRTS soundtracks at the same time (and then Mobile compared to either of them) to clearly hear that!  

Here's a tip:  "When you find yourself in a hole.  Stop digging."  - Will Rogers

Same old VibesAreReal.  Wants to be a big boy Jedi but is not ready...

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ledzepfilm

ledzepfilm

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On 10/21/2019 at 4:25 PM, TheStairwayRemainsTheSame said:

LZFilm or someone needs to put these tracks over TSRTS and I'm damn sure theres some synchronisation.

Mmm... I can damn sure tell you that in my years of experience with the TSRTS audio and video that it is all most definitely from New York and not anything else.

Case closed

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Strider

Strider

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3 hours ago, Ram4 said:

I haven't been on here in years and have been in hiding on Tatooine.  But I felt a disturbance in the force... 

Everything you just said is WRONG. 

(1) Your knowledge of stage recording is wrong and (2) your ears can't tell the difference.  So now here I am.  I have played music for over 30 years including live shows on stages, have set up multitrack recording for a couple of live shows in a live setting, can play music by ear, and have been listening to TSRTS since 1986 (all before you were born).  That likely makes me more qualified than you on both topics. 

Let's start with your interpretation of what a soundboard recording is.  It's a two track recording, either mono or stereo, left and right channels from the front of house board (what the audience hears) or from a stage monitor board (what the band hears on stage; today they use in-ear monitors).  It is NOT the same as a multitrack recording which was used to make TSRTS.  To record TSRTS, they had to hire a mobile recording truck (maybe that is what confused you?  You thought it was just a truck in Mobile?!😀) with a balance engineer, tape operator and maybe a supervisor.  Eddie Kramer was hired to man the mobile (NOT in Mobile - following me so far?) truck parked in New York at MSG for the three shows in July.  They ADDED overhead condenser microphones above the drum kit.  The only time you will EVER see that is when the show is being recorded to multitrack for a live album, concert film or maybe radio/TV broadcast.  So take a look at the TSRTS film or photos of the New York shows.  She the two overhead mics IN ADDITION to the standard overhead mics (similar to what Plant holds) that are ALWAYS over the drums?  There are 4 microphones.  Two for recording, two for the F.O.H. SOUNDBOARD.  There are also extra mics all over the kit, and on extra in front of the bass drum.  Same thing in the Los Angeles and Long Beach 1972 shows or Tokyo and Osaka 1971 shows which were all recorded to multitrack.  None of those extra microphones were there in Mobile.  So visually I just debunked your theory of it being recorded to multitrack.  But you think you're smart, and very stubborn, and you still "know what you hear."

Moving on.  An unbalanced, unmixed two track soundboard tape cannot be truly blended with a multitrack tape.  If that was possible, we would have gotten Ten Years Gone from Knebworth on the 2003 DVD.  Jimmy wanted to use it so badly.  But the guitar was not recorded to multitrack.  Only present on the board tape (in the video you probably have as well which is not the multitrack audio).  Jimmy had the multitracks.  This would be far EASIER than simply blending the Mobile board tape (as you claim they did) with TSRTS audio because Mobile would stand out like a sore thumb,  But no - he PASSED on using the soundboard tape of Ten Years Gone because the audio would not match the rest of the performance.

With a multitrack you can mix all of the mic'd tracks as you like.  Guitar up high, bring the bass drum down a bit, tweak the ride cymbal, put JPJ bass in the left channel, etc.  You can't do any of that with a soundboard tape.  It's all mixed down on the fly during the show.  They are mixing live as the show goes based on what they are hearing at the mixing desk in the audience.  The only reason there is a tape is if a tape deck or reel was plugged in to record from it.  There are usually no audience microphones either for a board tape. 

As far as the audio comparison goes.  Let me tell you a story.

Around 1990 (before you were born), I first saw a chunk of the Royal Albert Hall 1970 film.  It was dark, grainy, edited and amazing to finally see.  We're Gonna Groove and I Can't Quit You Baby were the first two songs on this video and are the first two songs they played that night as you know.  Backtrack to Coda.  There is a studio version of We're Gonna Groove (from June 25, 1969) and a SOUND REHEARSAL version of I Can't Quit You Baby (from January 9, 1970) that is edited (though it doesn't say edited on Coda) from that same night at the Albert Hall.  The moment I heard We're Gonna Groove I instantly recognized Plant's vocal.  It sounded exactly the same.  I played Coda and the video side by side at the same time and it WAS a 100% match.  Hmm...  Apparently there was some fancy editing done to make a "faked" studio recording for Coda.  Jimmy used a "sub octivider" on it.  That didn't exist in 1969.  So now I speculated that We're Gonna Groove was actually live and from the Albert Hall show.  But I Can't Quit You Baby was 100% from the show.  They chopped off the intro, and cut to the final chorus after the solo because Robert says "Jimmy Page guitar" and the crowd applauds.  That certainly would blow their story of it being from a rehearsal.  Well the video and audio of ICQYB lined up perfectly of course and I spread the word to fans I knew who were unaware.  There was one guy who refused to believe me.  He insisted that the version on Coda was a rehearsal and that the band simply did it IDENTICALLY that night!  To this day it's one of the most unbelievably naive comments I've heard in Zep circles.  Sure enough when the 10 CD box came out and people knew the truth, the credits on Coda changed to both songs being recorded live at the Albert Hall concert.  Now here you are trying to usurp that guy as #1.  Are you sure you want to do that?  All your credibility will be gone (well it's already gone among the big collectors).  Just do us a favor.  Play the Mobile version AT THE SAME TIME as TSRTS version you are saying is the same.  The answer will become obvious.  But don't forget which TSRTS versions are edited from other nights in New York per Eddie Edwards.  The Celebration Day solo is NOT the same on the original TSRTS and the 2007 expanded version as you claim (and is 100% not the solo from Mobile!)  Just play the two TSRTS soundtracks at the same time (and then Mobile compared to either of them) to clearly hear that!  

Here's a tip:  "When you find yourself in a hole.  Stop digging."  - Will Rogers

Same old VibesAreReal.  Wants to be a big boy Jedi but is not ready...

I'm afraid all your info will fall on deaf ears as StairwayRemains has proven to be deaf and dumb.

But I would just like to say it was a treat to see you back here, Ram4...if only for a nanosecond. You and Big Klu were the first people whose posts I liked on the old Electric Magic forums way back when.

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TheStairwayRemainsTheSame

TheStairwayRemainsTheSame

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On 11/1/2019 at 5:09 PM, Ram4 said:

I haven't been on here in years and have been in hiding on Tatooine.  But I felt a disturbance in the force... 

Everything you just said is WRONG. 

(1) Your knowledge of stage recording is wrong and (2) your ears can't tell the difference.  So now here I am.  I have played music for over 30 years including live shows on stages, have set up multitrack recording for a couple of live shows in a live setting, can play music by ear, and have been listening to TSRTS since 1986 (all before you were born).  That likely makes me more qualified than you on both topics. 

Let's start with your interpretation of what a soundboard recording is.  It's a two track recording, either mono or stereo, left and right channels from the front of house board (what the audience hears) or from a stage monitor board (what the band hears on stage; today they use in-ear monitors).  It is NOT the same as a multitrack recording which was used to make TSRTS.  To record TSRTS, they had to hire a mobile recording truck (maybe that is what confused you?  You thought it was just a truck in Mobile?!😀) with a balance engineer, tape operator and maybe a supervisor.  Eddie Kramer was hired to man the mobile (NOT in Mobile - following me so far?) truck parked in New York at MSG for the three shows in July.  They ADDED overhead condenser microphones above the drum kit.  The only time you will EVER see that is when the show is being recorded to multitrack for a live album, concert film or maybe radio/TV broadcast.  So take a look at the TSRTS film or photos of the New York shows.  She the two overhead mics IN ADDITION to the standard overhead mics (similar to what Plant holds) that are ALWAYS over the drums?  There are 4 microphones.  Two for recording, two for the F.O.H. SOUNDBOARD.  There are also extra mics all over the kit, and on extra in front of the bass drum.  Same thing in the Los Angeles and Long Beach 1972 shows or Tokyo and Osaka 1971 shows which were all recorded to multitrack.  None of those extra microphones were there in Mobile.  So visually I just debunked your theory of it being recorded to multitrack.  But you think you're smart, and very stubborn, and you still "know what you hear."

Moving on.  An unbalanced, unmixed two track soundboard tape cannot be truly blended with a multitrack tape.  If that was possible, we would have gotten Ten Years Gone from Knebworth on the 2003 DVD.  Jimmy wanted to use it so badly.  But the guitar was not recorded to multitrack.  Only present on the board tape (in the video you probably have as well which is not the multitrack audio).  Jimmy had the multitracks.  This would be far EASIER than simply blending the Mobile board tape (as you claim they did) with TSRTS audio because Mobile would stand out like a sore thumb,  But no - he PASSED on using the soundboard tape of Ten Years Gone because the audio would not match the rest of the performance.

With a multitrack you can mix all of the mic'd tracks as you like.  Guitar up high, bring the bass drum down a bit, tweak the ride cymbal, put JPJ bass in the left channel, etc.  You can't do any of that with a soundboard tape.  It's all mixed down on the fly during the show.  They are mixing live as the show goes based on what they are hearing at the mixing desk in the audience.  The only reason there is a tape is if a tape deck or reel was plugged in to record from it.  There are usually no audience microphones either for a board tape. 

As far as the audio comparison goes.  Let me tell you a story.

Around 1990 (before you were born), I first saw a chunk of the Royal Albert Hall 1970 film.  It was dark, grainy, edited and amazing to finally see.  We're Gonna Groove and I Can't Quit You Baby were the first two songs on this video and are the first two songs they played that night as you know.  Backtrack to Coda.  There is a studio version of We're Gonna Groove (from June 25, 1969) and a SOUND REHEARSAL version of I Can't Quit You Baby (from January 9, 1970) that is edited (though it doesn't say edited on Coda) from that same night at the Albert Hall.  The moment I heard We're Gonna Groove I instantly recognized Plant's vocal.  It sounded exactly the same.  I played Coda and the video side by side at the same time and it WAS a 100% match.  Hmm...  Apparently there was some fancy editing done to make a "faked" studio recording for Coda.  Jimmy used a "sub octivider" on it.  That didn't exist in 1969.  So now I speculated that We're Gonna Groove was actually live and from the Albert Hall show.  But I Can't Quit You Baby was 100% from the show.  They chopped off the intro, and cut to the final chorus after the solo because Robert says "Jimmy Page guitar" and the crowd applauds.  That certainly would blow their story of it being from a rehearsal.  Well the video and audio of ICQYB lined up perfectly of course and I spread the word to fans I knew who were unaware.  There was one guy who refused to believe me.  He insisted that the version on Coda was a rehearsal and that the band simply did it IDENTICALLY that night!  To this day it's one of the most unbelievably naive comments I've heard in Zep circles.  Sure enough when the 10 CD box came out and people knew the truth, the credits on Coda changed to both songs being recorded live at the Albert Hall concert.  Now here you are trying to usurp that guy as #1.  Are you sure you want to do that?  All your credibility will be gone (well it's already gone among the big collectors).  Just do us a favor.  Play the Mobile version AT THE SAME TIME as TSRTS version you are saying is the same.  The answer will become obvious.  But don't forget which TSRTS versions are edited from other nights in New York per Eddie Edwards.  The Celebration Day solo is NOT the same on the original TSRTS and the 2007 expanded version as you claim (and is 100% not the solo from Mobile!)  Just play the two TSRTS soundtracks at the same time (and then Mobile compared to either of them) to clearly hear that!  

Here's a tip:  "When you find yourself in a hole.  Stop digging."  - Will Rogers

Same old VibesAreReal.  Wants to be a big boy Jedi but is not ready...

Finally someone who has been able to actually start a dialogue and show me where I was wrong rather than thro garbage at me.

The "initial confrontation" I had with Mobile had me so riled up hearing the same sounds I heard from TSRTS and I had all these theories in my head of Pagey piecemealing  those EU shows 73' becuase they were SBD'd but I see it all now

Thanks Ram.

 

I don't think anyone was understanding I was NOT Saying Mobile is TSRTS song for song no edit, I was creating a sensatialist thread name, however I was listening the D&C and it dawned on me this sounds pretty fucking spot on with additional pieces and then realised other songs sounded oh so similar.

 

(I still want to know why the D&C and WLL's were the only things getting recorded from the board across Europe (and thank fuck they were)

Edited by TheStairwayRemainsTheSame
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Sticks of Fire

Sticks of Fire

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Surely all those European shows exist in soundboard form.  They wouldn’t have just recorded parts of two songs and that’s it.    What we have is probably just partial “listening copies” that page made for himself of parts of the songs to get ideas.    Surely the masters are complete shows

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SteveAJones

SteveAJones

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4 hours ago, TheStairwayRemainsTheSame said:

Finally someone who has been able to actually start a dialogue and show me where I was wrong rather than thro garbage at me.

The "initial confrontation" I had with Mobile had me so riled up hearing the same sounds I heard from TSRTS and I had all these theories in my head of Pagey piecemealing  those EU shows 73' becuase they were SBD'd but I see it all now

Thanks Ram.

I don't think anyone was understanding I was NOT Saying Mobile is TSRTS song for song no edit, I was creating a sensatialist thread name, however I was listening the D&C and it dawned on me this sounds pretty fucking spot on with additional pieces and then realised other songs sounded oh so similar.

(I still want to know why the D&C and WLL's were the only things getting recorded from the board across Europe (and thank fuck they were)

You went full retard awhile ago. It's not even that funny anymore, it's just pathetic.

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TheStairwayRemainsTheSame

TheStairwayRemainsTheSame

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2 hours ago, Sticks of Fire said:

Surely all those European shows exist in soundboard form.  They wouldn’t have just recorded parts of two songs and that’s it.    What we have is probably just partial “listening copies” that page made for himself of parts of the songs to get ideas.    Surely the masters are complete shows

Why do the AUD bootlegs randomly get cut into recordings from the console, Essen, Vienna both examples of this happening for the same songs.

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