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joeboy

What should have happened after Earls Court............

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A lot of momentum was lost between May 25th 1975 and the scheduled start on August 23rd.  The band should have capitalized on the peak summer demand to show off Physical Graffiti.   Peter Grant and the band dropped the ball on this one.

Had the tour started mid June 1975.....the guy's wouldn't have had so much time on their hands.....and things would have turned out much different.  Showco and the roadies were all there ready to be deployed.

True Robert voice would still have been a slight problem......but things would have improved.  A lost opportunity in my opinion.

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No one could foresee what happened to Robert and his family. . Plus the beginning of the 1975 tour was a mess starting in cold weather states they probably wanted to regroup and then start the stadium tour.. which would have been epic. . They did have 14 stadium shows ready to go but it wasn't meant to be. . 

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I don't disagree, but is this thread necessary? I feel your other thread had this all covered...

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What occurred after Earls Court is the same as after Knebworth is the same as after the O2 arena.  Lack of direction; ambition; and motivation.

It all started after Madison Square Gardens July 1973.  John Paul Jones wanted to quit the band and become the Choirmaster of the Winchester Cathedral.  He was totally fed up with the lifestyle.  The recordings for Physical Graffiti were then stopped in November 1973 and pushed back to February 1974.   When the band got to Los Angeles in May 1974, for the Swan Song Parties, they were dying to get back on the road but it never happened.  It took a year to release the album in late February 1975. The whole Shepperton Studios movie mock up;  the whole Swan Song thing; the whole tax exile thing; all caused massive delays.

When you leave artists stagnating and bored with lots of money......like all of us....we rest on our laurels....and descend into complacency. 

 

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Once you become successful as an artist, and you don’t have that hunger of striving to “make it,” you become someone total different.  Great artists are always chasing their ghosts. But you can never be what you once were. 

 

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So let’s see

Zep worked the first half of 1975, and they’re not allowed to spend some holiday time with their families before they embark on a World Tour starting in August that will take them from USA-Europe and the Far East for rest of 75 into 76 

🙄🙄

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9 hours ago, joeboy said:

What occurred after Earls Court is the same as after Knebworth is the same as after the O2 arena.  Lack of direction; ambition; and motivation.

Hindsight is 20/20. Their personal and professional lives had become more complicated, that's all. It's certainly not easy balancing family concerns and living as tax exiles. Don't underestimate the loss of Karac Plant -- the band nearly ended in Summer 1977. As for the 02, you may have heard it was meant to be a one off tribute and not lead to anything else.

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7 hours ago, bluecongo said:

So let’s see

Zep worked the first half of 1975, and they’re not allowed to spend some holiday time with their families before they embark on a World Tour starting in August that will take them from USA-Europe and the Far East for rest of 75 into 76 

🙄🙄

Not according to Joeboy, they should have been working, touring, writing, recording non-stop from 68'-80'. Anything else is obviously unacceptable.

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11 hours ago, joeboy said:

John Paul Jones wanted to quit the band and become the Choirmaster of the Winchester Cathedral.

Choirmaster of the Winchester Cathedral................this is a wikipedia hallucination, isn´t it???

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16 minutes ago, Autumn Moon said:

Choirmaster of the Winchester Cathedral................this is a wikipedia hallucination, isn´t it???

I know I've read this a few times before. Was it on wikipedia? I plead the 5th.

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3 hours ago, Autumn Moon said:

Choirmaster of the Winchester Cathedral................this is a wikipedia hallucination, isn´t it???

It was a somewhat joke, JPJ's way of saying he was fed up with the road life and touring in general. Can't blame him, almost 5 years alternating between on the road and the studio is a bit much, especially for a family man with three young daughters. I cannot blame JPJ one bit. What's the point in success if you cannot enjoy the fruits of your labor?

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On 11/21/2019 at 3:47 AM, PeaceFrogYum said:

It was a somewhat joke, JPJ's way of saying he was fed up with the road life and touring in general. Can't blame him, almost 5 years alternating between on the road and the studio is a bit much, especially for a family man with three young daughters. I cannot blame JPJ one bit. What's the point in success if you cannot enjoy the fruits of your labor?

I always find  successful musicians that go on about the road and the work beyond laughable.

You soundcheck or you create music or you soak up the admiration of thousands of fans  in exchange for some time 

away from your family. There are many ordinary people that get paid very little and make equal sacrifices just to keep body and  soul together and a roof over their heads

they may do that for their working lives. Silently .

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7 hours ago, andrew r said:

I always find  successful musicians that go on about the road and the work beyond laughable.

You soundcheck or you create music or you soak up the admiration of thousands of fans  in exchange for some time 

away from your family. There are many ordinary people that get paid very little and make equal sacrifices just to keep body and  soul together and a roof over their heads

they may do that for their working lives. Silently .

I used to feel the same way until I learned that emotional pain and suffering is relative to the individual. A Somalian suffering and starving cannot conceptualize the life of a successful western musician any more than the successful musician could understand the pain and struggles of the Somalian yet both experience pain, loss, & suffering. It is easy for a blue collar worker busting their hump six or seven days a week just to get by...barely at that, to think how easy some rock star has it, even under the worse conditions compared to what he has to deal with. Problem is, its never that simple. Very successful people, especially musicians and actors who typically come from working class backgrounds, are constantly wondering if the people around them truly care about them or are simply in it for the money and fame. If their best friend is secretly embezzling money, if their father is gambling their fortunes away, etc. Then there is the famous interview with Rick Springfield from around 1981 I believe where the interviewer says, "Rick, you must have had hordes of ladies since you were a child you are so good looking..." Springfield replied that no, until he became famous he could not even get a date, women wanted nothing to do with him. He then said as a result he finds it almost impossible to trust anyone, everyone wants, wants, wants and no one gives unless it will benefit them.

So yes, they have stuff and experiences we can only dream of, but then many go home alone feeling they are simply a commodity, just a thing to be exploited and used. When people say they can't believe so and so famous person killed themselves, overdosed, was committed, whatever, they are missing the forest for the trees. Its all relative my friend.

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Sheesh. Another doozy and redundant thread from Joe Blow and his ilk. What should happen is you learn to appreciate what is instead of whining (whingeing if you're from the UK) about what should never be.

"They should have toured more, played more, recorded more...waaah, waaah!" It's always easy spending other people's money and time.

Let's look at the facts, shall we?

By the end of the 1973 U.S. tour Led Zeppelin had been on a constant record and tour cycle. They had released five million-selling albums, toured the U.S. 8 times, Japan twice, Europe and the UK several times, and Australia and New Zealand. All while facing constant apathy or downright hostility from most of the press calling them Cream knock-offs and inferior to the Beatles and the Stones.

After their record-breaking 1973 tour, they had left the naysayers and the competition in the dust. Only an idiot would lump Led Zeppelin with Grand Funk or Slade again.

But apart from breaking records, the 1973 tour also broke Robert Plant's voice...the seed was sown on the 1972 Japanese tour. So, apart from a well-deserved rest and enjoying the spoils from near-constant work from 1968 in attaining the top of the rock-n-roll mountain, a break was needed so Robert could have surgery on his vocal nodes.

In the interim, the band decided to form their own label. Now, you don't just wave a wand and Swan Song magically appears. It takes poring over legalities and logistics and going over every detail with a fine comb, making sure every 'i' is dotted and every 't' is crossed. Unless you want to get ripped off, of course.

Joe Blow whines about the band stopping Physical Graffiti recording in November 1973 and reconvening in February 1974. Did you ever consider maybe the band wanted to spend Christmas and New Year's with their families? What a schmuck you must be.

Hell, you can tell by the vocals on Physical Graffiti that Plant was not completely healed. He was entirely within his right to tell the band to wait a bit more for his throat to heal. But he soldiered on. 

Just as Jimmy Page soldiered on with the 1975 tour after breaking his finger. In other words, you had two members ignoring the pain and long-lasting physical effects touring would have on them and taking one for the team. As the bootlegs prove, Plant's voice never really recovered until 1977. And Page, after suffering injuries to his fretting hand two tours in a rows, never was the same.

But in Joe Blow's world they should have just kept touring in 1975 until Plant's voice was in tatters and Jimmy's fingers were falling off. Fuck you, Joe.

Besides, even in a perfect world with no illnesses and ailments, it would have been hard to just call up the band and say let's hit the road again in June after Earls Court. Nothing happens in a vacuum, Joe. Were you alive in 1975? I was and let me tell you, it was a logjam out there.

Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, Rolling Stones, Elton John, Lynyrd Skynyrd, Kiss, Queen...there were a lot of bands touring at that time. Most of them looking to book the same venues...Forum or Sports Arena in L.A., Madison Square Garden and Nassau County Arena in the NYC area, the Philadelphia Spectrum, Boston Garden, Chicago Stadium, Houston Summit, Capitol Center in Landover, etc. And for bands such as Led Zeppelin or the Stones or Pink Floyd, they needed multiple nights in some cities...4, 5, or even 6 nights to satisfy demand.

On top of all this, most of these venues also were home to basketball and/or hockey teams. Have you ever wondered why Led Zeppelin's 1975 tour was so patchworked compared to the streamlined 1977 tour? It's because they were touring right smack in the middle of the NBA and NHL seasons. Places like the Forum and Madison Square Garden had both a basketball and hockey team to accommodate.

So no, Joe. Starting a record label, recording a double-album, booking a tour in the dead of winter, and making your singer go on the road before he is fully ready...it's not that simple. Why don't you try it sometime instead of whining about "what ifs?" from the comfort of your couch?

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4 hours ago, PeaceFrogYum said:

I used to feel the same way until I learned that emotional pain and suffering is relative to the individual. A Somalian suffering and starving cannot conceptualize the life of a successful western musician any more than the successful musician could understand the pain and struggles of the Somalian yet both experience pain, loss, & suffering. It is easy for a blue collar worker busting their hump six or seven days a week just to get by...barely at that, to think how easy some rock star has it, even under the worse conditions compared to what he has to deal with. Problem is, its never that simple. Very successful people, especially musicians and actors who typically come from working class backgrounds, are constantly wondering if the people around them truly care about them or are simply in it for the money and fame. If their best friend is secretly embezzling money, if their father is gambling their fortunes away, etc. Then there is the famous interview with Rick Springfield from around 1981 I believe where the interviewer says, "Rick, you must have had hordes of ladies since you were a child you are so good looking..." Springfield replied that no, until he became famous he could not even get a date, women wanted nothing to do with him. He then said as a result he finds it almost impossible to trust anyone, everyone wants, wants, wants and no one gives unless it will benefit them.

So yes, they have stuff and experiences we can only dream of, but then many go home alone feeling they are simply a commodity, just a thing to be exploited and used. When people say they can't believe so and so famous person killed themselves, overdosed, was committed, whatever, they are missing the forest for the trees. Its all relative my friend.

Terrific post 

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On 11/20/2019 at 9:57 PM, SteveAJones said:

As for the 02, you may have heard it was meant to be a one off tribute and not lead to anything else.

This is particularly relevant, as I have a magazine interview with Page before the gig where he says something like "as far as I know, it's one show". My theory is, everyone accepted that, when there was the possibility it might be a horror show a la Live Aid. But when it turned out so good, people changed their attitude to, "hell why not go on tour?".

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I did not realize that the Rolling Stones were touring North America from June 1st to August 8th, 1975.   That is probably the reason why the tour was to start August 23rd,1975.  Hard to compete with the Stones.

My apologies to the band for playing armchair expert.  Peter Grant was a good manager.  

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2 hours ago, joeboy said:

I did not realize that the Rolling Stones were touring North America from June 1st to August 8th, 1975.   That is probably the reason why the tour was to start August 23rd,1975.  Hard to compete with the Stones.

My apologies to the band for playing armchair expert.  Peter Grant was a good manager.  

Right.  Their tour overlapped with the Stones' tour in 1972 and the Stones got the lion's share of the press, despite Zeppelin playing shows almost three times as long (in the case of Seattle and L.A. at least).  Based off of everything I've read, the band and Grant vowed to not let that happen again.  Overlapping with the Stones would have been even worse in the Summer of 1975 because the Stones had not been through the States since 1972, but Zeppelin had rolled through in 1973 AND had just spent the whole winter there.

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On 5/2/2020 at 8:23 PM, Bonzo_fan said:

Right.  Their tour overlapped with the Stones' tour in 1972 and the Stones got the lion's share of the press, despite Zeppelin playing shows almost three times as long (in the case of Seattle and L.A. at least).  Based off of everything I've read, the band and Grant vowed to not let that happen again.  Overlapping with the Stones would have been even worse in the Summer of 1975 because the Stones had not been through the States since 1972, but Zeppelin had rolled through in 1973 AND had just spent the whole winter there.

Plus 75' was the first tour with Woody so I am sure the press was all over that. Kinda a big deal to tour with a new guitarist after having Mick Taylor in the band.

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4 hours ago, PeaceFrogYum said:

Plus 75' was the first tour with Woody so I am sure the press was all over that. Kinda a big deal to tour with a new guitarist after having Mick Taylor in the band.

True.

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Anyone see both the Stones and Zep in '75?

I'd bet dollars to donuts Zep KILLES it in terms of the "better concert experience". Not putting shit on the Stones, I just can't imagine a better rock show with the exception of earlier Zep! 😝 Naturally, that is why I am here and not on a Stones forum, but I still can't imagine the Stones - or anyone else - were as good. No chance. But I would be interested to hear from someone who could offer some thoughts from attending both shows.

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9 hours ago, rm2551 said:

Anyone see both the Stones and Zep in '75?

I'd bet dollars to donuts Zep KILLES it in terms of the "better concert experience". Not putting shit on the Stones, I just can't imagine a better rock show with the exception of earlier Zep! 😝 Naturally, that is why I am here and not on a Stones forum, but I still can't imagine the Stones - or anyone else - were as good. No chance. But I would be interested to hear from someone who could offer some thoughts from attending both shows.

I'm a '95, so unfortunately not.  Having seen DVDs from both tours, I agree that Zepp's tour was certainly better musically -- once Mick Taylor left, the Stones lost their chance of competing with Zepp in that regard.  As far as the visuals, both had interesting elements.  The Stones had a lotus flower stage that opened up, revealing the band during the first song ("Honky Tonk Women").  It also featured a giant inflatable phallis during "Starfucker," a gimmick that gets less funny the further removed you are from middle school.  I would say Zepp were still better visually since all four members are entertaining to watch, whereas in the Stones' case Charlie and Bill don't really add much that way 😂

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Bonzo_fan said:

I'm a '95, so unfortunately not.  Having seen DVDs from both tours, I agree that Zepp's tour was certainly better musically -- once Mick Taylor left, the Stones lost their chance of competing with Zepp in that regard.  As far as the visuals, both had interesting elements.  The Stones had a lotus flower stage that opened up, revealing the band during the first song ("Honky Tonk Women").  It also featured a giant inflatable phallis during "Starfucker," a gimmick that gets less funny the further removed you are from middle school.  I would say Zepp were still better visually since all four members are entertaining to watch, whereas in the Stones' case Charlie and Bill don't really add much that way 😂

I believe the high point of the Stones 75' shows was Billy Preston moreso than the Stones but from what I have seen the Stones were pretty good. Hard to compete with Billy Preston. Preston was an amazing performer. Plus they had fantastic opening acts such as The Eagles & J. Giles Band.

The phallus only worked around half the time and was a source of constant onstage jokes for the band, and constant frustration for the road crew. Or as Mick would say, "honest...this has NEVER happened before!"

Edited by PeaceFrogYum

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