lzfan715 Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 That's nice. I have never been an emotional person. It would take a lot to get me choked up. My dad loves my brother and I more than anything, and he lets us know it. There is not a doubt in my mind about it. I'm pretty sure, too, that he's a "real man". There are no specific qualities for a "real man" imo. And spats, maybe you should try and find some emotion. You mean to tell me that seeing babies smile doesn't make you feel warm inside? Or that those sad commericals on tv about terminally ill children or abused animals don't upset you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spats Posted January 25, 2008 Author Share Posted January 25, 2008 Oh yeah--I wanted to talk about how "men don't like to talk about kids." My dad was a man who loved kids more than anything on Earth. Truly. My 15-year old sister is a half-sister--and she's not his child (she's my mom's daughter), and my dad used to buy her stupid little things like candies and little cheap toys that little girls like because he loved her. I remember that one year for Christmas, he todl her that Santa was confused and left some presents for her at his house. She got more presents than Brittany and me. I was 14 or 15 at the time, and I was really jealous. At my dad's funeral, people that I didn't know that knew my dad stood up at his funeral and told everyone about how good he was to children. He lived and worked near an elementary school, and the kids would stop by his work on their way home from school. I guess he handed out things like crayons and coloring books and candy to them on a regular basis. Did I mention that I KNOW my dad was a "real man?" He was, no doubt about it. Well i would think that guys who have kids like to talk about kids more than guys that don't. But for the longest time none of the guys i know or my buddies had no kids so we have never been interested. A couple of my buddies have kids but they know not to get into a chat with me about kids because they know i am not interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spats Posted January 25, 2008 Author Share Posted January 25, 2008 My dad loves my brother and I more than anything, and he lets us know it. There is not a doubt in my mind about it. I'm pretty sure, too, that he's a "real man". There are no specific qualities for a "real man" imo. And spats, maybe you should try and find some emotion. You mean to tell me that seeing babies smile doesn't make you feel warm inside? Or that those sad commericals on tv about terminally ill children or abused animals don't upset you? I am a big animal rights person so i hate to see animals harmed in any way. But babies smiling doesn't do it for me. I agree, there are no rules to being a "real man". Although i think a guy who is whipped isn't a real man. Other than that i agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lzfan715 Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 Sure he can be a "real man", he is just a man who wants a happy wife/girlfriend/fiancee. And if you look at MattMc's like boy you don't think he's cute? Matt has one of the cutest little boys I've ever seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electrophile Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 I'm sure some would think that my dad is "whipped", but my dad wants to make my mother happy. That's part of what brings him happiness in life. He loves my mother and wants to make her happy. So if he does housework without being asked, tells my mom he's going out and when he'll be back and will stay home rather than go out if my mom asks him to, it's not because he's "whipped" or has no balls. It's because my mom would do the same things for him if he asked, and it's only fair to give as much as you take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katuschka Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 My parents don't "get" my two big bands. But we can still bond over music- going to see Van Morrison with them this Christmas was a blast. Don't worry, my mom doesn't get anything. For her it's just noise, no matter whe it is. She only likes Vladimir Vysotsky, but that can't be called music. I've always thought of you as very straightforward. Enigmatic at times, but when you aren't thinking about it you rarely bother with equivocations. Yeah, I don't know when to shut up. I once told off my granddad (my mom's dad), I literally yelled at him. But unlike my mom, I do care a bit about what other people think about me. I think my parents may have felt that getting a degree in acting was impractical. But they paid for it and never breathed a word of that to me. It's much better to come to a decision to change the course of your life yourself than be pushed into it by a parent. If you abandon an artistic course because of outside influence you'll always wonder "what if" and resent the person who pushed you. They let me make my own decisions, and so I can feel truly happy about where I am in life because it was always my choice. My mom once told me that I do things that are not considered to be normal in this family. I always got what I wanted on the end, but it cost me several tears sometimes. When I was wondering what school to choose, and I told them that I want it to be something artistic, they convinced me to try art restoration. I tried (specialization on books and paper) and I was REALLY unhappy. We argued a lot, and they finally let me try graphic design (though my mom thought I wasn't aggressive enough to do such a job). That's good- she may have undermined your confidence in other ways, but I bet you got a lot from that. No matter how precocious you are, getting treated as an equal by a parent is a big thing. This is actually rather funny. My mom have always said that I've been somewhat precocious. I never understood whether I'm precocious because of how they have treated me, or whether they've treated me that way because I seemed precocious to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo the Rover Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 Bilbo---if things don't work out with you and the missus...marry me. you got it baby...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katuschka Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 Although i think a guy who is whipped isn't a real man. Spats, you ARE aware that this is a sexist comment, aren't you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katuschka Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 A couple of my buddies have kids but they know not to get into a chat with me about kids because they know i am not interested. Which means that you have no idea if men like to talk about kids or not. They just don't talk about it in front of you because you don't want to talk about it, not because they would not want to talk about it. Add that to other things you don't know (for example, how the girl will react when you call her tonight, after a week... ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MS1 Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 Don't worry, my mom doesn't get anything. For her it's just noise, no matter whe it is. She only likes Vladimir Vysotsky, but that can't be called music. I looked some up on YouTube. It's got kind of Tom Jones-esque quality . . . but I imagine it would get old FAST. Yeah, I don't know when to shut up. I once told off my granddad (my mom's dad), I literally yelled at him. But unlike my mom, I do care a bit about what other people think about me. Did he deserve it? Deference to elders is important, but honest expression is too. If he didn't deserve it, at least you felt bad afterwards. My mom once told me that I do things that are not considered to be normal in this family. Good. Who would want to be normal? Unless you live in a family of eccentrics, that would be utterly boring. Although I imagine it was no fun to hear. I always got what I wanted on the end, but it cost me several tears sometimes. When I was wondering what school to choose, and I told them that I want it to be something artistic, they convinced me to try art restoration. I tried (specialization on books and paper) and I was REALLY unhappy. We argued a lot, and they finally let me try graphic design (though my mom thought I wasn't aggressive enough to do such a job). Well, I think that something becomes more precious when you've fought for it. It's too bad you had to fight your mom, but I bet you feel pretty good about sticking to your guns. This is actually rather funny. My mom have always said that I've been somewhat precocious. I never understood whether I'm precocious because of how they have treated me, or whether they've treated me that way because I seemed precocious to them. Nature or nurture. It's both, of course- you were precocious and they encouraged that. It's an overused metaphor, but it's a bit like gardening. When breeding plants you select for genetic traits and then you provide the optimum conditions. You had the trait, they provided what you needed to get the most out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo the Rover Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 I am a big animal rights person so i hate to see animals harmed in any way. But babies smiling doesn't do it for me. I agree, there are no rules to being a "real man". Although i think a guy who is whipped isn't a real man. Other than that i agree. Brother Spats, please tell us all what it takes to be a real man , I'm very interested in your take on it. Does a real man have to be "Rambo" or "Conan" ? does he have to control his woman and children with an iron fist ? or is just having a pecker in his pants enough ? Please enlighten us ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonham Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 Spats, you ARE aware that this is a sexist comment, aren't you. I don't think he realises that most of his comments are either sexist or offensive to women. Add that to other things you don't know (for example, how the girl will react when you call her tonight, after a week... ). :hysterical: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MS1 Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 I don't think he realises that most of his comments are either sexist or offensive to women. He's been told and told and told. I feel like I was a little hard on him recently, but he certainly can't say that he hasn't been told. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lzfan715 Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 Probably not. I don't think he really cares either. Maybe if he cared he'd have a better time with women. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spats Posted January 25, 2008 Author Share Posted January 25, 2008 Spats, I think one of your problems is that you view "your buddies" as the ideal polling group- and the reality is that they aren't, they are a niche group of sexist males. If you place too much of a priority on their opinions in forming your own, then your opinions will ALWAYS be out of synch with the rest of the world, and you will ALWAYS feel like a misanthrope. Time to start seriously considering opinions from outside the pack. This recent scenario with the girl and the number- we watched while you gave excuse after excuse as to why you didn't want to call her. These standards that you set for women- whether it is the wedding thing or the clingy thing or the looks thing or the asking for your number thing- each one of them is a bar that keeps a gigantic pool of women from getting to you. You wonder why no one is getting through the cage when the cage is of your own making. You've created an impossible set of standards for a woman to achieve, and at some point I think you'll have to consider that the reason is that you don't want to be with someone right now, consciously or unconsciously. I don't think we are a sexist bunch of guys. If anything they disagree with how how i am handling the situation with the New Years girl and some of them are married and have girlfriends and have given in to them. Am i mistaken about what "sexist" means? Are my standards really that high? Being caught up in it may be clouding my view. I don't think not wanting a "clingy woman" is asking to much. I don't think anyone wants someone who is clingy. Male or female. I realize women love weddings but i don't understand why it's a big deal if they go to a wedding alone. I don't think i will ever understand that. I wouldn't have a problem going alone. I don't think any guy would be bothered by that. I think i am really picky when it comes to looks. You are right on there. Bullseye. I don't know how to change that. I thing we all have an ingrained idea of what is physically attractive to us. I don''t think expecting a girl to ask for the number is expecting to much. All you are doing is expecting the woman to be honest. Just ask for the number if you want it. Don't always expect the guy to do it. I really do want a girlfriend. I don't think i am subconciously not ready. Thanks for the input Sam. I appreciate it. it actually made me think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katuschka Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 I don't think he realises that most of his comments are either sexist or offensive to women. Neither do I. I'm just like Dumbledore, I give people other chances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spats Posted January 25, 2008 Author Share Posted January 25, 2008 Sure he can be a "real man", he is just a man who wants a happy wife/girlfriend/fiancee. And if you look at MattMc's like boy you don't think he's cute? Matt has one of the cutest little boys I've ever seen. He has a cute kid. But it doesn't change my mood in any way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spats Posted January 25, 2008 Author Share Posted January 25, 2008 I'm sure some would think that my dad is "whipped", but my dad wants to make my mother happy. That's part of what brings him happiness in life. He loves my mother and wants to make her happy. So if he does housework without being asked, tells my mom he's going out and when he'll be back and will stay home rather than go out if my mom asks him to, it's not because he's "whipped" or has no balls. It's because my mom would do the same things for him if he asked, and it's only fair to give as much as you take. If he voluntarily does all of that then no he is not whipped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonham Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 Neither do I. I'm just like Dumbledore, I give people other chances. Dumbledore dies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spats Posted January 25, 2008 Author Share Posted January 25, 2008 Brother Spats, please tell us all what it takes to be a real man , I'm very interested in your take on it. Does a real man have to be "Rambo" or "Conan" ? does he have to control his woman and children with an iron fist ? or is just having a pecker in his pants enough ? Please enlighten us ..... Other than the whipped part i have no rules for what a "real man" is. I am not into gender roles where a "guy does this" or "the women does this". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MS1 Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 I don't think we are a sexist bunch of guys. If anything they disagree with how how i am handling the situation with the New Years girl and some of them are married and have girlfriends and have given in to them. Am i mistaken about what "sexist" means? Are my standards really that high? Being caught up in it may be clouding my view. I don't think not wanting a "clingy woman" is asking to much. I don't think anyone wants someone who is clingy. Male or female. I realize women love weddings but i don't understand why it's a big deal if they go to a wedding alone. I don't think i will ever understand that. I wouldn't have a problem going alone. I don't think any guy would be bothered by that. I think i am really picky when it comes to looks. You are right on there. Bullseye. I don't know how to change that. I thing we all have an ingrained idea of what is physically attractive to us. I don''t think expecting a girl to ask for the number is expecting to much. All you are doing is expecting the woman to be honest. Just ask for the number if you want it. Don't always expect the guy to do it. I really do want a girlfriend. I don't think i am subconciously not ready. Thanks for the input Sam. I appreciate it. it actually made me think. Look, it's the only charitible viewpoint I can come up with on your behavior here. Think of it this way- picture yourself in a room with the available women in your area. There is a button for weddings, a button for clingy, a button for talking about marriage and kids, a button for 'plain janes'. (that's a very insulting term, BTW), and a button for not asking for your number. Each time you press a button, a large number of women in the room disappear. (Lots of women like weddings, lots of women get emotionally attached, lots of women are unconventionally beautiful, etc.) By the time you're finished, you've disqualified or "killed off" most of the available women, since you have enough female faults that you consider deal breakers that almost any woman will have at least one. And then you look around and wonder how the room got empty? You emptied it. I've ripped you often and I'm still not sure that you don't deserve it. But I did some thinking about my own situation. And I haven't done much dating in the past year either, and so I stopped to consider that. But the thing is, I'm quite sure the reasons I haven't been dating are down to me, not other people. And so I'm one step ahead of you, who are still projecting the reasons you are alone on the rest of the world. You can't change the women of the world Spats, you can only change yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lzfan715 Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 Other than the whipped part i have no rules for what a "real man" is. I am not into gender roles where a "guy does this" or "the women does this". That is probably one of the first things you have said that I agree with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spats Posted January 25, 2008 Author Share Posted January 25, 2008 Which means that you have no idea if men like to talk about kids or not. They just don't talk about it in front of you because you don't want to talk about it, not because they would not want to talk about it. Add that to other things you don't know (for example, how the girl will react when you call her tonight, after a week... ). Well they are fathers so they are more likely to talk about it because it's something they have to live with every day. I realize she probably won't be thrilled or flattered that i waited a week to call. But if she had just asked for my number instead of expecting me to then this would not be an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katuschka Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 I looked some up on YouTube. It's got kind of Tom Jones-esque quality . . . but I imagine it would get old FAST. It's not really about music, it's more about lyrics. I can't appreciate it because I don't understand Russian. All I know is that he meant a lot to people, and that it actually doesn't get old at all. click...well, just in case you're interested. Did he deserve it? Deference to elders is important, but honest expression is too. If he didn't deserve it, at least you felt bad afterwards. Yes, he deserved it, but that doesn't change the fact that my behaviour was very impertinent. Good. Who would want to be normal? Unless you live in a family of eccentrics, that would be utterly boring. Although I imagine it was no fun to hear. Actually, it WAS fun. I'm proud of it. Well, I think that something becomes more precious when you've fought for it. It's too bad you had to fight your mom, but I bet you feel pretty good about sticking to your guns. I remember that when I was fifteen, I wrote a poem that was indirectly dedicated to my mom. Its theme could be summarised as 'I will show you...'. And yes, I'm glad I did. Nature or nurture. It's both, of course- you were precocious and they encouraged that. It's an overused metaphor, but it's a bit like gardening. When breeding plants you select for genetic traits and then you provide the optimum conditions. You had the trait, they provided what you needed to get the most out of it. My response always was that I'm not precocious, I'm irradiated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spats Posted January 25, 2008 Author Share Posted January 25, 2008 Look, it's the only charitible viewpoint I can come up with on your behavior here. Think of it this way- picture yourself in a room with the available women in your area. There is a button for weddings, a button for clingy, a button for talking about marriage and kids, a button for 'plain janes'. (that's a very insulting term, BTW), and a button for not asking for your number. Each time you press a button, a large number of women in the room disappear. (Lots of women like weddings, lots of women get emotionally attached, lots of women are unconventionally beautiful, etc.) By the time you're finished, you've disqualified or "killed off" most of the available women, since you have enough female faults that you consider deal breakers that almost any woman will have at least one. And then you look around and wonder how the room got empty? You emptied it. I've ripped you often and I'm still not sure that you don't deserve it. But I did some thinking about my own situation. And I haven't done much dating in the past year either, and so I stopped to consider that. But the thing is, I'm quite sure the reasons I haven't been dating are down to me, not other people. And so I'm one step ahead of you, who are still projecting the reasons you are alone on the rest of the world. You can't change the women of the world Spats, you can only change yourself. You described it perfectly Sam. I do eliminate a lot of women. I weed out the women to try and find the best one. I guess it comes down to what i can put up with and what i can't. I didn't really think "plain jane" was that offensive. Is it really? I have thought is was the best way to describe a girl who isn't hot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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