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Gratefulzepp

TSRTS 1990 Boxed Set...Alt./new mix?

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Hey everyone. When I got the Zepp boxed set in 1990 I noticed something different with The Song Remains The Same. It sounded slightly different mix wise. The lead guitar in the beginning sounds higher in the mix, the guitars pop out a bit better.  I thought then it must be because it was just eq'd differently and I'm not used to it. When I'd listen every now and again, I couldn't put my finger on it but it was just the eq that was different. Then, just a couple of weeks ago I was listening to some of the 1990 remasters again just for the hell of it with headphones. This time I heard the difference. Not only do the guitars sound like their mixed a little higher, but at the 1:38 mark theres a little guitar run that pans from the right to left. That doesn't happen on the Houses Of The Holy version. I checked the original Diament one, the 1994 and the recent 2014 remasters. TSRTS sounds like it was remixed on the 1990 boxed set. Did anybody ever notice that or wanna look into that to make sure my ears aren't deceiving me?   

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There are lots of mixing and edit variations on the 1990 Boxed Set compared to the original and remastered single album releases. Some of the edits, faster fade outs etc. were necessary to fit all of the material on the format. I'll see if I can find a good link that provides this analysis as I know it has been discussed before.

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I wasn't aware that there were other remixes on the boxed set. I know they were remastered. The faster fade outs I know about. The noise intro to Immigrant Song was snipped, etc. TSRTS to my ears sounds like the only remixed track on the set. 

Edited by Gratefulzepp

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On this topic, I've been very interested lately in comparing the audio/mix levels between all the different releases. Starting maybe by collecting all the releases of a single album and running them through a spectrum analyzer. Anyone know if this has already been done?

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4 hours ago, gibsonfan159 said:

On this topic, I've been very interested lately in comparing the audio/mix levels between all the different releases. Starting maybe by collecting all the releases of a single album and running them through a spectrum analyzer. Anyone know if this has already been done?

I've uploaded some of the audio from the 80's cd's, 1990 remasters, 1994 remasters and the current 2014 ones. Just some select tracks to see the difference in the wav's. As far as remasters go, the 1990 boxed set looks the best in as far as there's no brick walling or clipping. The 1994 remasters a clipped and mildly compressed compared to the 1990 remasters. A little harsher on the ears in spots. The 2014 remasters thankfully aren't brick walled or clipped but there is some compression here and there. Sound wise, in my opinion I like a little of the 80's cd's and the 1990 remasters sonically. I do love how II thru IV, Presence & ITTOD sound from the 2014's.   

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20 hours ago, Gratefulzepp said:

The 1994 remasters a clipped and mildly compressed compared to the 1990 remasters

And the single album releases were from the 94 remasters, correct? As in, no individual CD release was based on the 1990 remasters and they only exist on that boxed set?

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3 hours ago, gibsonfan159 said:

And the single album releases were from the 94 remasters, correct? As in, no individual CD release was based on the 1990 remasters and they only exist on that boxed set?

Correct. After the 4 cd boxed set in 1990 and the follow up of the 2nd two disc set in 1993 each album was individually released in 1994 with boosted levels. One good example is if you look at the wav file of Hey Hey What Can I Do from the 1990 set and compare it to the bonus track on the 1994 release/remaster of Coda, there's a big difference in the size of the wav and over all playback volume. Same goes for when you see the size of the wav's for Zepp IV in the '94 release.

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The 1994 remasters are based on the 1990 Box Set masters (for the 40 or so tracks that were on the 1990 set), but yes, they are different. Many of the tracks on the '94 CDs are identical to the 1990 Box Set versions but turned up about 1.4dB if memory serves, which results in some clipping. Other tracks, however, are more than just level-shifts: their dynamics are slightly less - they have higher average levels than the 1990 versions but their peaks are slightly lower than the 1990 versions. (Also, as an FYI, the 2003/2008 Rhino and Japan Definitive Collection box set with the cool mini-LP style packaging, is just the 1994 CD masterings turned up another 0.6dB.)

Still the 1990 Box Set and 1994 CDs sound much more similar than different, as they are based on the same digital transfers of the tapes, and they were all (re)mastered by George Marino.

There are literally hundreds of pages over at the Steve Hoffman forums comparing the 1980s, 1990s, and 2014/15 Zep masterings. There also is some discussion of the 1990 vs '94 tracks.

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On 12/15/2019 at 12:35 AM, tmtomh said:

Still the 1990 Box Set and 1994 CDs sound much more similar than different

I'm preparing to dump a lot of comparisons in my other thread, but there's a pretty significant mix adjustment between these two releases. It is true that the LUFS level gets cranked for the 1994 version.

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Now back on the original topic ;) Were there any other songs on the 1990 boxed set that were remixed and not just remastered? Quite honestly, I like how TSRTS sounds on this boxed set compared to the original HOTH version. I really couldn't tell from what I've heard if there were any other "remixes" on the boxed set.

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On 12/16/2019 at 9:15 PM, Gratefulzepp said:

Now back on the original topic ;) Were there any other songs on the 1990 boxed set that were remixed and not just remastered? Quite honestly, I like how TSRTS sounds on this boxed set compared to the original HOTH version. I really couldn't tell from what I've heard if there were any other "remixes" on the boxed set.

I noticed No Quarter has a fade in unlike the other versions. I think this was an attempt to hide the amount of hiss that's very noticeable.

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Is it just me, or do japanese get better sonic results, when they remaster old classics? Quite a few japanese cd pressings (Free, Alice Cooper Group etc) have had quite excellent remastering on them 😙

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