1973 MSG Shows and how to tell them apart

[GeorgiaZepFan4ever]

I have been trying to figure out a way to tell the 73 TSRTS shows in NY that were filmed apart from one another . The only way I can think of to seperate them is from Jonesy's stage clothing. Going by what I can tell from the youtube clips  that are out there as well as a couple bootleg clips, he wore 3 different shirts/jackets etc. on all 3 nights and most likely changed out of the loud flashy jacket with the balls hanging off the arms and kept the kitchen tablecloth design shirt on during the later half the 3rd night (the 29th) during the Violin Bow part of Dazed. 
So I took some screen shots taking a guess which night was what. If anyone knows, chime in and either correct me or...whatever  

Edited January 14, 2020 by GeorgiaZepFan4ever

[SteveAJones]

This will tell you pretty much everything you need to know: http://thegardentapes.co.uk/tgt.html

[GeorgiaZepFan4ever]

This was the first time I have actually read all these pages carefully. I got my answer for the most part . I ran across this bootleg clip of Dazed that states its from the night of the 29th.  After Jimmy's bow section is over and the tempo once again speeds up , I noticed Jonesy with the strange patterned shirt with the blotches on the shoulder so I assumed in my mind that he took that crazy loud jacket off sometime during that 5-7 minute period when he wasnt needed to play . 

Edited January 14, 2020 by GeorgiaZepFan4ever

[chillumpuffer]

6 hours ago, GeorgiaZepFan4ever said:

This was the first time I have actually read all these pages carefully. I got my answer for the most part . I ran across this bootleg clip of Dazed that states its from the night of the 29th.  After Jimmy's bow section is over and the tempo once again speeds up , I noticed Jonesy with the strange patterned shirt with the blotches on the shoulder so I assumed in my mind that he took that crazy loud jacket off sometime during that 5-7 minute period when he wasnt needed to play . 

Don't forget that they re shot some footage at Shepparton Studios and Jonesy had to wear a wig as he'd cut his hair

[Sticks of Fire]

The member “ledzepfilm” has analyzed everything about these videos.  He can tell you anything you need to know. 

[GeorgiaZepFan4ever]

Yep it took me a while to even notice all the oddities and differences between the footage in NY compared to the footage at Shep but Im getting better at it.  Jonesy's hair and Bonzo's face weight..Robert's teeth were fixed  and the lighting on the stages were  different ... even Jimmy's hair is slightly different as well..... One clip I study all the time is Dazed  and there's very little Shepperton footage in that but quite a bit of Shep footage in WLL

[ledzepfilm]

It's a long and complicated subject but JPJ is a good clue:

27th - Crazy jacket/white shirt RnR-No Quarter, white shirt TSRTS-beginning of Moby Dick, polka dot shirt end of Moby Dick-end of show

28th - Crazy jacket/leather jacket RnR-The Rain Song, leather jacket Dazed-end of show

29th - Crazy jacket/polka dot shirt RnR - Dazed pre-bow solo, polka dot shirt post-bow solo-end of show

Btw, the majority of the ending of Dazed and Confused is Shepperton, and WLL has a decent mix of genuine/Shep footage

Edited January 21, 2020 by ledzepfilm

[rm2551]

I'm pretty sure I've asked this already - but are the original camera films on a shelf (even if digitised) - or long gone? In other words, are all the source camera footage somewhere - or no?

[June72]

2 hours ago, rm2551 said:

I'm pretty sure I've asked this already - but are the original camera films on a shelf (even if digitised) - or long gone? In other words, are all the source camera footage somewhere - or no?

Back when Jimmy was remastering the movie and soundtrack in 2006 (I think), he mentioned in an interview that he couldn't make any changes to the visuals because of some copyright laws or something, I believe. If it were true that he would even consider doing that, that would lead me to believe he still has the original film. Someone like Sam or Steve A Jones may be able to shed more light on this.

[Sticks of Fire]

5 minutes ago, June72 said:

Back when Jimmy was remastering the movie and soundtrack in 2006 (I think), he mentioned in an interview that he couldn't make any changes to the visuals because of some copyright laws or something, I believe. If it were true that he would even consider doing that, that would lead me to believe he still has the original film. Someone like Sam or Steve A Jones may be able to shed more light on this.

He does.  He added the extras to the original like MMH, and The Ocean.

The Zeppelin archive needs to handed over to an Uber fan and redone completely.  These Frankenstein productions are a complete joke 

[rm2551]

18 hours ago, June72 said:

Back when Jimmy was remastering the movie and soundtrack in 2006 (I think), he mentioned in an interview that he couldn't make any changes to the visuals because of some copyright laws or something, I believe. If it were true that he would even consider doing that, that would lead me to believe he still has the original film. Someone like Sam or Steve A Jones may be able to shed more light on this.

If all original footage exists - as in all cameras film canisters for all filmed concerts (the bulk of which I imagine has not yet seen the light of day) and its simply a matter of copyright/legal considerations, I give up. This world is insane. I assume a lot of original film that was considered redundant/irrelevant to the project was discarded/destroyed. It is too hard to believe all angles of the concerts filmed are all on a shelf somewhere. I'm sure there is still some stuff, but surely not all camera footage. Sam? Steve??

[GeorgiaZepFan4ever]

Since we are vastly approaching the 47th anniversary of these 3 great shows, I think I finally have it down pat on how to tell the 3 nights apart. As I mentioned when I first posted this thread , the key factor and best clues are Jonesy and his ever changing shirts under his wild jacket .  ..I'm thinking it goes something like this.....

July 27th - wild -jacket over the plain white long sleeved shirt for the first few numbers , then (approximately) around the time TSRTS/RAIN hit,  he removes the jacket, and keeps that plain white shirt on until (my estimation the intermission while Moby Dick is going on) , then proceeds to change into the (off white with maroonish-red I guess you call it polka dotted) long sleeved one, and completes the show with that one on right up till the Ocean encore at the end.  One tricky and confusing issue I had to pay attention to in the youtube clips from the movie, is Robert on the first night blowing the crowd a kiss and  saying " New York- Good Night! " , sets down the mic,  and then walks off stage pointing to all the guys , then in another overhead camera frame from above, after all the flames die down, it shows him saluting the crowd BUT the timing of jonesy setting his bass down on the amp or whatever he sets it down with doesnt  match up with the front of stage camera angle of when he sets his bass down, so my point to this long annoying rant is simple , I compare Robert's farewell and "goodnight" on the first night (the 27th) version to what he says on the audio bootleg from the 3rd night ( the 29th) when he chuckles after Quashie's fire limbo dance and belts out a "Ha Ha.... ..New York , maybe next year.....goodnight" and in that instance Jonesy had on the same polka dot shirt as well. .... ok pheww,  take a smoke or bathroom break after that, think it over and correct me if I made any errors. 

July 28th - easy peasy , Wild jacket over the  maroon-brownish- weird material suede / leather shirt , that was left open and not buttoned , Not sure at what point he removed the wild jacket , but apparently played most of the 2nd half of the show with just that same leathery suede shirt on unbuttoned all the way through till the end is my guess.  

July 29th ( the obvious best show out of the 3 according to my bootleg trained ears ).. Wild jacket once again with the off white polka dotted shirt on underneath it, leading  all the way up until Jimmy's Bow solo is over during Dazed.. reason I spotted this and came to this startingling observation is during the Dazed movie /youtube clip when Bonzo and Jonesy share a laugh over an apparent timing error with his drum symbols in the beginning of Going to San Francisco , he still has the jacket on over the polka dotted shirt,  But in a home made -roadie/staff /or film crew 8MM clip of Dazed from the 29th, Jonesy is wearing just the polka dotted shirt during Jimmy's epic solo leading to the overhead hand gestures and leaned over bows Robert and Jimmy do together in their ritual simultaneously .   but anyways , all in all I think JPJ changed into the Polka Dotted shirt on the first night and then just flat out wore it straight through under his jacket until the end of Jimmys Bow solo on the 3rd night , ...... ok I even have a headache after this , Hope I entertained ya'll with these findings and no , I havent even factored in any of the shepperton material to this cause ... It doesnt matter I can already tell the difference with that footage anyways cause of the light poles and angles etc. 

thanks for the help in the past posts  everyone .