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ed141

1973.07.12 Detroit source 2

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Just showed up on DIME and TTD. Has the beginning of Rock And Roll complete, unlike Jared Houser's recording. Same taper as the 1972 show (I believe).

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Posted (edited)

It’s fine. Not as clean as the original source, but it’s great to finally get the complete show.

And now Empress Valley, Lighthouse, and Graf Zeppelin have more material to crank out new releases.

Edited by pluribus

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Fantastic!  Been wondering when this one would show up (since the '72 show came out last year).  

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Part of the show (DC, STH, and MD) is up at Black Beauty.  True, not as good quality as the existing source, but still great to hear an alternate source of this all-time great show.  Plus we get Moby Dick in its full '73 glory (30 minutes).

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Man! It's crazy the amount of new sources/shows that have been popping up in the past couple of years. We've been thoroughly spoiled. Even though it's not as good quality, it's nice to now have more of the show.

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I first stumbled upon this show back in January, with ZepHead 315's upload. I had heard the July 13 '73 Detroit concert but somehow July 12 had eluded me.

Then, I found this upload of the second source, which gives a fuller picture of the 7.12.73 gig. Excellent new addition to the Led Zeppelin bounty. Whatever has been lacking in the official releases for the 50th anniversary has been made up by all the unofficial pleasures that have come out.

 

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On 3/14/2020 at 2:03 AM, pluribus said:

It’s fine. Not as clean as the original source, but it’s great to finally get the complete show.

And now Empress Valley, Lighthouse, and Graf Zeppelin have more material to crank out new releases.

Don´t miss to check the upcoming Tarantura2K "The Band That Beat The Beatles" box. It contains both original and new source, mastered by their new audio wizard (ENIGMA).

Graf Zeppelin´s "Detroit Rock City" was a miss due to the shrill sound.

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38 minutes ago, Autumn Moon said:

Don´t miss to check the upcoming Tarantura2K "The Band That Beat The Beatles" box. It contains both original and new source, mastered by their new audio wizard (ENIGMA).

Graf Zeppelin´s "Detroit Rock City" was a miss due to the shrill sound.

I doubt that it will be any good. I had hopes that they had changed their ways with releasing legitimate releases, but the Bath 1970 boxset turned out to not really be from the master tape after all. And the “Enigma” mastering sounded like they just turned the bass up as high as it would go. The low gen Bath source sounds much better.

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7 hours ago, pluribus said:

I doubt that it will be any good. I had hopes that they had changed their ways with releasing legitimate releases, but the Bath 1970 boxset turned out to not really be from the master tape after all. And the “Enigma” mastering sounded like they just turned the bass up as high as it would go. The low gen Bath source sounds much better.

Poor pluribus....if you could only get chance to get some appropriate gear to listen to that set loud...but this is what it is - some compact computer speakers and iPhone in the hand and here we have a final statement from forum's expert. You should stay where you were before, dude. You have absolutely no idea of how the master was leaked out and you only repeating of other people have said. 

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11 hours ago, zepster1979 said:

Poor pluribus....if you could only get chance to get some appropriate gear to listen to that set loud...but this is what it is - some compact computer speakers and iPhone in the hand and here we have a final statement from forum's expert. You should stay where you were before, dude. You have absolutely no idea of how the master was leaked out and you only repeating of other people have said. 

It wasn’t the master. That’s a fact, proven by spectral analysis matching it to the 2nd gen that came out in 2009, just with the bass frequencies ridiculously cranked up. Seek no further proof than the cut right before Thank You that they patched with the alternate source. This section is complete on the old Bath CD bootlegs of the main source. Only the 2nd gen had a cut at that spot. This is not rocket science.

Obviously you have an interest in seeing Tarantura 2000 titles sold. No surprise. This is also why you downplay all of the other labels on your site, right? When Lighthouse or Graf Zeppelin release a title, the review says “No new content” or “Nothing new to offer”. Whenever Tarantura 2000 have a title, it’s a “Huge Upgrade”. And yet all of their titles are garbage. 

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Whaddya know, I also just gave a listen to the newest Tarantura 2000 release "Some Other Guyz", of both sources for Boston 1970, which AA lists "has been said that the quality is much better than any past title."  

Surprise, both sources on that title are worse than all previous titles. Same overdone EQ, this time introducing this awful hiss on top of both versions of the show.  The 2nd gen of Source 1 and the 1st gen of Source 2 both sound much better, and have been around for years. What is it with that label? At some point, this has got to be a deliberate maneuver to mess with people. Title after title is just awful. Harsh EQ, overly tweaked sound, false claims of being from the masters, etc. Even when they do have access to a new source, they still butcher it (No Use Gneco, Live In the Fairly Tale). What's even more bizarre is that Tarantura 2000 already released Source 2 of the Boston 70 show 15 years ago in their "Wreckage In Boston" box.  At least that version back then was closer to the 1st gen of Source 2.  And yet, these are supposedly "much better than any past title".

 

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, pluribus said:

It wasn’t the master. That’s a fact, proven by spectral analysis matching it to the 2nd gen that came out in 2009, just with the bass frequencies ridiculously cranked up. Seek no further proof than the cut right before Thank You that they patched with the alternate source. This section is complete on the old Bath CD bootlegs of the main source. Only the 2nd gen had a cut at that spot. This is not rocket science.

Obviously you have an interest in seeing Tarantura 2000 titles sold. No surprise. This is also why you downplay all of the other labels on your site, right? When Lighthouse or Graf Zeppelin release a title, the review says “No new content” or “Nothing new to offer”. Whenever Tarantura 2000 have a title, it’s a “Huge Upgrade”. And yet all of their titles are garbage. 

Yes, it is. The spectral analysis has been done on 44.1/16 rate, which gives a similar results. The master is achieved in 24/96 and T2K likely dehissed this a bit, thus it's very similar to the 2nd gen but that's all. 

Not only bass freq's have been cranked up, but also top shrill that was presented throughout was gently removed and polished, finally. The mid freq's are in much better balance. But yet, you won't detect this until you get a good quality gear. All the cuts achieved on 2nd gen are also visible on master, nothing strange here as 2nd gen is a copy. The older titles aren't complete. Again, if you or anyone, who did that comparison, would only get some good gear and have some smart ears, you could detect that that small section is repeated from other part of Thank You. All of my low gen copies dated as pre-2009 have that cut, thus it's just impossible to think that any older CDs are complete here.

Sure, I am interesting to see a good mastering. Obviously, it is a step further in something that we've been waiting for a long time. Truly, I do not care if this is T2K, EV or a fan made product. Praising on a good thing isn't a violation. Wanna do something better? Grab the tape, buy some gear and do your own remaster. As for now, the only garbage is your constant rambling.

Edited by zepster1979

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, pluribus said:

Whaddya know, I also just gave a listen to the newest Tarantura 2000 release "Some Other Guyz", of both sources for Boston 1970, which AA lists "has been said that the quality is much better than any past title."  

Surprise, both sources on that title are worse than all previous titles. Same overdone EQ, this time introducing this awful hiss on top of both versions of the show.  The 2nd gen of Source 1 and the 1st gen of Source 2 both sound much better, and have been around for years. What is it with that label? At some point, this has got to be a deliberate maneuver to mess with people. Title after title is just awful. Harsh EQ, overly tweaked sound, false claims of being from the masters, etc. Even when they do have access to a new source, they still butcher it (No Use Gneco, Live In the Fairly Tale). What's even more bizarre is that Tarantura 2000 already released Source 2 of the Boston 70 show 15 years ago in their "Wreckage In Boston" box.  At least that version back then was closer to the 1st gen of Source 2.  And yet, these are supposedly "much better than any past title".

 

Dude, your reviews should be placed on the main page of some local paper LOL You have a truly bargain way of speaking. 

Overdone EQ? Fuck! I couldn't find any, even when I played it loud. I did a short comparison between this and low gen - again no sign of that harsh top end anywhere. A tiny, heavily compressed and dehissed sound from their past title is better? Are you sure that your ears aren't plenty of wax?  Or maybe your gear needs some fix?

Tell ya what - buy some decent tube amp, good quality speakers and some decent A/D converter, then we can continue.

Edited by zepster1979

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12 minutes ago, zepster1979 said:

Yes, it is. The spectral analysis has been done on 44.1/16 rate, which gives a similar results. The master is achieved in 24/96 and T2K likely dehissed this a bit, thus it's very similar to the 2nd gen but that's all. 

Not only bass freq's have been cranked up, but also top shrill that was presented throughout was gently removed and polished, finally. The mid freq's are in much better balance. But yet, you won't detect this until you get a good quality gear. All the cuts achieved on 2nd gen are also visible on master, nothing strange here as 2nd gen is a copy. The older titles aren't complete. Again, if you or anyone, who did that comparison, would only get some good gear and have some smart ears, you could detect that that small section is repeated from other part of Thank You. All of my low gen copies dated as pre-2009 have that cut, thus it's just impossible to think that any older CDs are complete here.

Sure, I am interesting to see a good mastering. Obviously, it is a step further in something that we've been waiting for a long time. Truly, I do not care if this is T2K, EV or a fan made product. Praising on a good thing isn't a violation. Wanna do something better? Grab the tape, buy some gear and do your own remaster. As for now, the only garbage is your constant rambling.

Ah, now I get it. You’re “Enigma”, right? Detailing out a bad EQ job doesn’t make it sound any better. The cut in the 2nd gen before Thank You is not present on the IQ and Le-Mon bootlegs from the 90s, and not because of some made up cut-and-paste excuse. The fact that those bootlegs are not cut at that spot, and the T2K “Master” is, proves that it’s not a genuine release (as usual). On top of which, T2K/You went through the trouble of patching the beginning of the organ solo from Source 2 on this “Master”, yet forgot to patch the intro from Source 2 or the small cut in How Many More Times near the end.  This shouldn’t surprise anyone with any knowledge of Tarantura 2000. Every release is a joke. And when they get the rare opportunity to release a potential upgrade, they ruin it with that horrible “mastering”.

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6 hours ago, pluribus said:

Whaddya know, I also just gave a listen to the newest Tarantura 2000 release "Some Other Guyz", of both sources for Boston 1970, which AA lists "has been said that the quality is much better than any past title."  

Surprise, both sources on that title are worse than all previous titles. Same overdone EQ, this time introducing this awful hiss on top of both versions of the show.  The 2nd gen of Source 1 and the 1st gen of Source 2 both sound much better, and have been around for years. What is it with that label? At some point, this has got to be a deliberate maneuver to mess with people. Title after title is just awful. Harsh EQ, overly tweaked sound, false claims of being from the masters, etc. Even when they do have access to a new source, they still butcher it (No Use Gneco, Live In the Fairly Tale). What's even more bizarre is that Tarantura 2000 already released Source 2 of the Boston 70 show 15 years ago in their "Wreckage In Boston" box.  At least that version back then was closer to the 1st gen of Source 2.  And yet, these are supposedly "much better than any past title".

 

I'm not taking sides here--life is too damn short. In fact, that's my point: I just don't see the reason for anger and confrontation on LZ.Com. In a time when almost every known Zep tape source, silver CD boot release, or personal-project remaster is available for sampling or downloading as Mp3 or Flac,  what's the point of subjective attacks on some other Zep fan's opinion of this label or that one?  I mean, of COURSE I get that individuals have personal issues/conflicts and previous histories. That's human fuckin' nature, that's the internet, and yeah that's how I rolled on FBO 20 years ago, Jesus, there were days I'd smoke some absinthe and do a few shots of Black Lebanese  and go to town on "Pianoguy" for, like, hours at a time. Because I thought he was full of the ol' bully-bully-bullshit, you see. I never "won" those arguments; how could I have? 'Twas just my subjective opinion, dig. But boy-o, did I get self-righteously pissed! Yeah, but on FBO there were level-headed hipsters like Nech and Jeremy Mixer to step in and tell me to cool it and to remember that not every taper is clean of tapeworms. Even though when "Arizona Smiling" made its silver debut I was more underwhelmed than even I'd hoped to be (nevermind the absence of the heavily-hyped "YTIGC"). But I digress... When I was buying vinyl Zep boots in the '70s at the few hip local indie record stores in my hometown, or via tiny half-inch-by one-inch classified ads in the back pages of Creem or Trouser Press, what have you, I NEEDED to learn what I could about the sound quality of those releases. Same as when,  20 years later, I was ordering the latest Japanese silver cd's from Fisheads or the like ( before streaming and downloading; yes my young friends there was such a time in the intrawebs). But NOW? I think we should all be able to ably take our fill of what is out there--more than EVER BEFORE when it comes to Zep or so many other bands past and present--and decide what to dig for ourselves. Cats like Collectors Music Reviews and a few other great places do an excellent and passionate job of detailing individual silver/vinyl releases for the collector--my God, think of what gsparaco brought to writing about these crucial musical artifacts! I miss him so very much. I download a lot, but I will spend major coin on first-edition Zep titles that matter to me. That's what a serious collector does---throws cash he can't afford to waste of stuff he don't, technically, need. And we all know that the best Zep boot releases trump anything Zep itself has put out in the last 25n years! Shit, some EVSD box-sets are works off friggin' art, right? And I've got a six-year-old  daughter who's finally getting around to the danceable-est Zep tunes: DD, HOTH, etc. I've spent thousands on my Zep vinyls and silvers over the last 40 years. Will  they be worth a tuppence when my little gal comes of age, o0r when I need to sell them to send her to the college of her choice? Eh, no... But they have already proven their worth to ME times a fuckin'-million. And maybe, two my daughter's daughter, they will mean something too. So lighten up, guys. Take a larger, broader gander at the world today. None of the anger and conflict makes sense. Not anymore. And probably? It never did.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, pluribus said:

Ah, now I get it. You’re “Enigma”, right? Detailing out a bad EQ job doesn’t make it sound any better. The cut in the 2nd gen before Thank You is not present on the IQ and Le-Mon bootlegs from the 90s, and not because of some made up cut-and-paste excuse. The fact that those bootlegs are not cut at that spot, and the T2K “Master” is, proves that it’s not a genuine release (as usual). On top of which, T2K/You went through the trouble of patching the beginning of the organ solo from Source 2 on this “Master”, yet forgot to patch the intro from Source 2 or the small cut in How Many More Times near the end.  This shouldn’t surprise anyone with any knowledge of Tarantura 2000. Every release is a joke. And when they get the rare opportunity to release a potential upgrade, they ruin it with that horrible “mastering”.

I am CIA agent telling you I got everything and this including Jimmy's unreleased solo album with plenty of black masses and other tunes. Jeez, I cannot imagine talking to you anymore. People like you will always finding something to complain. No matter of how good the thing is, it's always not enough good for your taste. With such stubborn attitude you won't be able to be happy even with legit stuff. And I don't need to work to any label. I am enough satisfied I can get some sets and eventually resell them for a good price and make my low budget more efficient.

Wish you good luck with your continuing fight. Bye.

For those of you, who are still interested in details, here's a short quote from Bootledz, where we can read that all titles prior to T2K have cut before Organ Solo and the beginning of it is also corrupted on all pre-2009 titles. (A valid link containing that part of the show, taken from IQ and low gen sets, shows it clearly: https://mega.nz/folder/0VgxjYQY#vyXdZRrSoijp1FFGmV0tag). A worth note is that Sadly, there are two cuts during the beginning of Thank You. Prior releases of this are uncut. No surprise here, as often masters liberated years after are corrupted or damaged over the years and low gen copies made earlier are bit more complete, so indeed - the new T2K is cut here as well as all post-2009 sets.

IQ and Le-Mon are strictly from source one, are the cd earliest releases of this show, and are poorer quality than all subsequent releases. IQ repeats about 2 minutes of tape at the end of disc one. Le-Mon repeats a different 2 minute section. Both titles are missing the first 8 seconds of the organ solo. Le-Mon's title sounds a tiny bit louder and clearer than IQ, but both have some awful background noise in places.
EV's first release of this show was in 2001 and was quickly followed with a reissue, reusing the same cds. Source one is the foundation and a second source is introduced to fill gaps. It doesn't have the two minute repeats and the poor background noise problems. Two unnecessary splices are made - one during the end of Since and the other during the second minute of Whole Lotta Love. It's source one is in improved quality over IQ and Le-Mon.
EV's 2005 reissue and the third and fourth cds of their 2010 reissue use the same tape from 2001. These reissues use new discs.
EV's cds one and two from their 2010 title offer an upgraded version of source one. This makes the introduction available, a little more tape/music at cuts, and a lot more tape after Moby and after the show. Sadly, there are two cuts during the beginning of Thank You. Prior releases of this are uncut. The second cut removes a second of tape during a distant air horn blast.
Wendy and 2010's "The Boy Next Door" are two source mixes, using the latest upgraded tape as the foundation and using source two to fill the gaps. Both titles are cut during the beginning of Thank You. Wendy has a pair of cuts, with the later displacing the air horn with an edit of some kind. Boy just has one cut in this area and splices out to the next higher generation of this tape for two seconds. Both titles have good sound, but Wendy's sound may be found to be less preferable.
Boleskine uses the latest upgraded tape as it's foundation and then uses the other source just to fill the gap in the start of the organ solo. It too is cut during the beginning of Thank You, and has edits lasting several seconds. The air horn is removed here too. It's sound is fairly similar to the other recent releases.
The 2015 no label title "Boy Next Door" reissues the audio found on the 2010 issue.
The 2018 no label title "Bath Festival of Blues & Progressive Music '70" reissues the audio found on their original title and adds in two bonus tracks from an LP source.
EV's 2019 "Bath Festival" title is a reissue, reusing discs from their 2010 release "Bath Festival 1970."
Tarantura2000's "Bath of the Blues" consists of two subtitles containing the show, "Raw Transfer" and "Final Mixdown." Both are identical mixes bases on the first source. Unlike most mixes from this label, no tape is missing at the splices and the sound is not over done.

Edited by zepster1979

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9 hours ago, zepster1979 said:

I am CIA agent telling you I got everything and this including Jimmy's unreleased solo album with plenty of black masses and other tunes. Jeez, I cannot imagine talking to you anymore. People like you will always finding something to complain. No matter of how good the thing is, it's always not enough good for your taste. With such stubborn attitude you won't be able to be happy even with legit stuff. And I don't need to work to any label. I am enough satisfied I can get some sets and eventually resell them for a good price and make my low budget more efficient.

Wish you good luck with your continuing fight. Bye.
 

I spend more than my share on bootlegs, believe me. I have since the beginning. It's expected that the labels will always boast about this release or that one. No Label/Lighthouse has released plenty of clones, but they've also released numerous upgrades and new sources. Graf Zeppelin makes updated mixes using lowgens and best available copies, to good effect, but some aren't that good.  Empress Valley has the soundboards, but makes plenty of clones, including their Moonchild label. That's all part of the game of bootlegs. They all have good releases, and they all do money grabs.

What makes no sense to me is when people shill for a bootleg company that consistently makes inferior product.  Release after release after release. Out of dozens and dozens of titles, Tarantura 2000 has released only two that have been worth anything: No Use Gneco (10/3/72) and Live in the Fairly Tale (9/29/71 Mr Peach source), and both were ruined by the same overdone mastering that is on every single one of their other titles.  

Your AA site gets a lot of traffic from Zeppelin fans, I'm sure. The fact that you constantly promote Tarantura 2000 releases, even when everyone else in the world knows that they are junk...well, it's not hard to put 2+2 together why. 

Since we're quoting Brannon's site now, don't forget this one, at the bottom of the Tarantura 2000 page: "The original Tarantura ceased in 1997. Since 1999, the name is being used/abused for these series of titles." 

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8 hours ago, Sticks of Fire said:

Could you guys please repeat the last ten posts, word for word so I can understand what’s going on?  Thanks!

Zepster is promoting his own crap lol. Explains why he throws a crybaby fit when people ask for boot links. Afraid he'll lose money.

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10 hours ago, Sticks of Fire said:

Could you guys please repeat the last ten posts, word for word so I can understand what’s going on?  Thanks!

 

11 hours ago, pluribus said:

I spend more than my share on bootlegs, believe me. I have since the beginning. It's expected that the labels will always boast about this release or that one. No Label/Lighthouse has released plenty of clones, but they've also released numerous upgrades and new sources. Graf Zeppelin makes updated mixes using lowgens and best available copies, to good effect, but some aren't that good.  Empress Valley has the soundboards, but makes plenty of clones, including their Moonchild label. That's all part of the game of bootlegs. They all have good releases, and they all do money grabs.

What makes no sense to me is when people shill for a bootleg company that consistently makes inferior product.  Release after release after release. Out of dozens and dozens of titles, Tarantura 2000 has released only two that have been worth anything: No Use Gneco (10/3/72) and Live in the Fairly Tale (9/29/71 Mr Peach source), and both were ruined by the same overdone mastering that is on every single one of their other titles.  

Your AA site gets a lot of traffic from Zeppelin fans, I'm sure. The fact that you constantly promote Tarantura 2000 releases, even when everyone else in the world knows that they are junk...well, it's not hard to put 2+2 together why. 

Since we're quoting Brannon's site now, don't forget this one, at the bottom of the Tarantura 2000 page: "The original Tarantura ceased in 1997. Since 1999, the name is being used/abused for these series of titles." 

You're really stupid and stubborn guy. Not only you cannot hear the difference between sources but also calling me AA, which is false.

I am also not promoting this label. Lots of their products are crappy, but few of them were.are quite good, and this including latest Bath and Boston sets. 
And if you're so informed, why you're repeating something that isn't true? The original Tarantura ceased in 1997, that's the fact. One of the owners started EV, which is fact too but the other one returned to game in 1999, so he/she couldn't abuse the name of their own label, you idiot!
This is the biggest proof you're completely dumb child with absolutely no knowledge about bootlegs and labels.

And tell you what, I wish to contact them to see some uncirculated stuff released. Really. Maybe this is the best part of this silly discussion to see your faces abashed.

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2 hours ago, gibsonfan159 said:

Zepster is promoting his own crap lol. Explains why he throws a crybaby fit when people ask for boot links. Afraid he'll lose money.

Because guys like you wants everything for free. This is what I think. We all know that labels like EV have had to pay some serious cash for uncirculated tapes. Then assholes like you are yelling everywhere just because you cannot get these tapes for free. Are you so stupid to not understand that even fuckin' bootleggers have to pay for something? This is the real world we're living in. It's called capitalism. I hate it but what I can do to change it? Cryin' all around for a free download? Calling bootleg buyers a bastards because they don't wanna share with anything with you? There were rhetorical questions because you completely don't understand this. And this is the reason why I'll still calling you a dumb.

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58 minutes ago, zepster1979 said:

Because guys like you wants everything for free. This is what I think. We all know that labels like EV have had to pay some serious cash for uncirculated tapes. Then assholes like you are yelling everywhere just because you cannot get these tapes for free. Are you so stupid to not understand that even fuckin' bootleggers have to pay for something? This is the real world we're living in. It's called capitalism. I hate it but what I can do to change it? Cryin' all around for a free download? Calling bootleg buyers a bastards because they don't wanna share with anything with you? There were rhetorical questions because you completely don't understand this. And this is the reason why I'll still calling you a dumb.

I’ve watched this thread, and other threads involving yourself, with a degree of astonishment. 

Do you want to just chill out mate?

Whatever the issue, there really isn’t any need for the way you consistently address people on this forum. It’s way past disrespectful.

I suppose I should brace myself for a caustic response. 

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4 minutes ago, Xolo1974 said:

I’ve watched this thread, and other threads involving yourself, with a degree of astonishment. 

Do you want to just chill out mate?

Whatever the issue, there really isn’t any need for the way you consistently address people on this forum. It’s way past disrespectful.

I suppose I should brace myself for a caustic response. 

Oh really? Calling me a bootlegger isn't disrespectful?

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