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Gabriel Subțitică

Led Zeppelin 1980

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2 hours ago, Strider said:

Whoa whoa whoa...hold on there, sonny! 

 "Power drumming was no longer a thing"? Tell that to Van Halen, Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, Motōrhead, Billy Squire, Phil Collins/Genesis...hell, even a lot of new wave acts like U2 and Simple Minds and Psychedelic Furs were based around big beats and big drums. 

You are severely underrating John Bonham's drumming on ITTOD. "In The Evening" is a master statement in precision four-on-the-floor timing yet still having a funky in the pocket feel.

As for the part I have highlighted in bold, I am confused. Are you implying that if Bonham had not died that they would have kicked Jimmy out of the band?

No. Obviously the implication is that Page would have been the one to die. 

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Well, the drummer in Detective, Jon Hyde,- was quite a power-house drummer too. Of course being on Swan Song and all that, and did Jimmy produce the album under a pseudonym? I don´t have any Detective albums, but I´ve heard some songs...

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1 hour ago, Mikelangelo said:

Well, the drummer in Detective, Jon Hyde,- was quite a power-house drummer too. Of course being on Swan Song and all that, and did Jimmy produce the album under a pseudonym? I don´t have any Detective albums, but I´ve heard some songs...

Correctomundo....Several reviewers at the time even claimed it was Bonzo who hit the skins on the two Detective albums. This rumor belongs in the conspiracy department, since Phill Collins, Tony Thompson and even Bonham's big idol, Carmine Appice developed a Bonzo wall of sound at the time

I have both Detective albums and although they haven't aged very gracefully (Michael des Barres!) it's easy to compile a very nice single disc. 

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Regarding Detective, yes Jimmy (Robinson lol) produced select tracks on the first album. You can really notice the difference - esp in the drumming - vs. those he didn't. Referring to the vinyl LPs as I type!

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In 1980 I hear a musical argument brewing between Bonham and Page.. Page senses he's losing Bonham and gets some more mind into his playing for a few phrases, but can't hold on for an entire solo.. and thats on a good night. There are a couple Trampleds and most Stairways, Page is playing pointlessly and with a self indulgence that's ignorant of band and fans alike.. and he keeps playing.. surely the reason for the red telephone on Jones'  keyboard.. to make the call for the flashing of the 'stfu' light by Pages pedal board. My impression is Bonham lost confidence in Page, and didn't enjoy playong tracks like WLL anymore. I hear him quitting on june 25th through 27th, rallying in Franfurt, losing will power in Berlin.

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I believe everyone commenting is correct within a certain degree. Most likely if Bonham survived the band would have ended after the second leg (1981) American dates. Reason I have is as mentioned, Robert's interviews post-Zep. The reason for Robert's leaving is both obvious and simple...Jimmy Page. It was very obvious in those interviews he did in the 80's that Robert was rather upset with Page up until around 1985 and after 85' was a combination of ambivalent and hoping Jimmy would do well. I believe (speculation) that Robert thought Zep was given a second chance at life with ITTOD, the Copenhagen gigs and even the first Knebworth gig but the second Knebworth saw Jimmy return to Tempe 1977 mode in full force and then Jimmy continuing that trend through the 80' tour. One thing Robert has insisted on during his solo years is a high level of professionalism among his players and I believe Robert was simply fed up and ready to be done with Jimmy by tours end in 1980 (Europe). Jimmy was a mess but in retrospect and with more info about Page's addictions in general, I doubt he would have died from an OD unless his habits became worse. Jimmy snorted H, he did not shoot it and I believe Jimmy's poor playing at some shows was more due to alcohol than H but again, not sure.

I was around then and was going to go to the final Chicago gig on November 15th as my brother had purchased the tickets as a birthday present and I was well aware of interviews in magazines and TV at the time.

Now saying Jimmy was spent, I don't believe this though both he and Bonzo needed a serious break and if they both had taken that break and placed the band on hiatus from August 1980 - somewhere around 1983 or 84' I think they would have come back strong with a very good album and tour. This would have given Robert & JPJ the opportunity to pursue solo work, allow Bonham to spend plenty of time with his family, get clean, and get his drive back to perform. 

Of course this is speculation but when you hear the opening performance as posted for the 80' European tour it begs one to answer the question: How did they start so strong (especially Bonham) and then...were they pissed no press had shown up? Did they just become disinterested along the tour? It is strange as the Dortmund gig was just so good

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Only the band members within Zeppelin really knew the situation at that time, but issues of power and control seemed to be in the mix. Not just drugs and drink.

Robert Plant 1988 RS interview - "I didn't want to do anything a minute longer that was necessary if I didn't like it. So after a lot of shuffling, it came out all right. Jimmy's role wasn't as prominent as it was before. Jonesy and I worked a lot more on things. But by the time we were playing Knebworth and the 1980 European tour, Jimmy was back in his commanding position."  

Page was always going to be the founder and leader of Led Zeppelin. As far as the U.S. 1980 Led Zeppelin tour, nobody in Chicago had tickets because they were never released to the public.

 

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4 hours ago, PeaceFrogYum said:

Jimmy was a mess but in retrospect and with more info about Page's addictions in general, I doubt he would have died from an OD unless his habits became worse. Jimmy snorted H, he did not shoot it and I believe Jimmy's poor playing at some shows was more due to alcohol than H but again, not sure.

The mix of heroin & alcohol is very dangerous, the narcotic effects on the central nervous system are boosted and can  easily lead to fatal respiratory paralysis, no matter H is snorted or shooted.

A miracle that Page and Bonham had survived the 1977 US tour, beside a few cases of "food poisoning" (ODs) here and there.

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Posted (edited)

Some of you lot have some really, really weird suppositions going on.
So weird, I honestly don't know how you've reached those conclusions from the evidence in front of you.
If I'm ever up in court and there's clear-cut evidence of my innocence, I hope you're not on the jury, lads - I'll go down for sure! 
 

Edited by Brigante

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5 hours ago, Chicago said:

 

Page was always going to be the founder and leader of Led Zeppelin. As far as the U.S. 1980 Led Zeppelin tour, nobody in Chicago had tickets because they were never released to the public.

 

I understand that and nowhere in my post did I say we HAD the physical tickets, I said my brother BOUGHT the tickets via mail which he did as did several thousand. The tickets went on sale in September if memory serves (via mail in order only) and my brother received the confirmation. The tour was cancelled before the physical tickets were released to those who bought them, however those who purchased the tickets were refunded their money in full.

Next time I will make sure to include every minute detail so as not to cause any confusion to the nitpickers.

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1 hour ago, Brigante said:

Some of you lot have some really, really weird suppositions going on.
So weird, I honestly don't know how you've reached those conclusions from the evidence in front of you.
If I'm ever up in court and there's clear-cut evidence of my innocence, I hope you're not on the jury, lads - I'll go down for sure! 
 

That's why they are called suppositions and not fact. The only people who truly know are Page, Plant, & Jones but we as fans can speculate, there is nothing wrong with that. I don't see what's weird about it any more than people pondering why they did or did not play a particular song. Johnny Cochran never said, "I believe the gloves don't fit, I don't have them, OJ will not put them on if I did, but I believe they don't fit so therefore, you must acquit." Unless I missed that part.

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16 minutes ago, PeaceFrogYum said:

 

Next time I will make sure to include every minute detail so as not to cause any confusion to the nitpickers.

No need to embellish if it's true.

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, PeaceFrogYum said:

The tickets went on sale in September if memory serves (via mail in order only) and my brother received the confirmation. The tour was cancelled before the physical tickets were released to those who bought them, however those who purchased the tickets were refunded their money in full.

Eventually, just over a decade later, all of the tickets were found inside the Chicago Stadium box office and purchased in bulk by one rock music memorabilia dealer who then sold them to collectors. The most popular arrangement was a set of ten different tickets. (Below: Billboard 9/25/80, Chicago Tribune 9/25/80).

1980 09 25  Billboard.jpg

 

1980 09 25  Chicago Tribune.jpg

Edited by SteveAJones

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16 hours ago, PeaceFrogYum said:

 we as fans can speculate, there is nothing wrong with that. 

The problem is when speculation becomes mythology which people end up accepting as fact. "I heard 
Page play some wrong notes in '77 and '80 because he was on heroin, therefore the entire tours have no merit". This shit has been copied and pasted exponentially because enough people have come to believe it as fact. To the detriment of LZ's legacy. That's how spouting bullshit becomes irresponsible.

16 hours ago, PeaceFrogYum said:

Johnny Cochran never said...

I don't see the direct connection between how a defense attorney bullshits on behalf of his guilty client and how the legacy of a great band should be maintained. Bullshit has no place in the latter.

 

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Posted (edited)

Indeed. In 1980, Zeppelin were just back up and running, they'd done a European tour, Robert had agreed to a US tour and they were rehearsing for that tour - yet somehow people take all that and conclude that Robert was going to leave?! Or that Bonham was going to quit due to Jimmy not being permanently on point? Or that Jimmy was going to call a three-year hiatus? None of those conclusions follow from anything that'd actually happened. You build a hypothesis from the available evidence - or you're just spouting bullshit. It's not the same thing. Tell you what, there's this thing called 'critical thinking', see, and...oh, never mind... 😕

Edited by Brigante

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I'll take Zeppelin's brand of sucking over any other bands brand of sucking any day.  All members were tantamount to genius and if they had some bad times it wasn't because they really didn't have the talent to pull it all off.   

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Shake my Tree, Closer(Fire), The Chase, Midnight Moonlight (Swan Song), City Sirens, Cadillac, Wearing and Tearing, Bonzo's Montreaux, Sacharrine, Ozone Baby.

What were they up to at Sol Studios? Were they working on a new LP? If so, how far along were they?

I figure Jimmy was organizing a whole new style around his trick 3rd finger, hence the b-string bender and a country music approach to solos.. This is really shining for me on Ozone Baby, and later on 'Together' by The Firm.

 

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15 hours ago, SteveAJones said:

Eventually, just over a decade later, all of the tickets were found inside the Chicago Stadium box office and purchased in bulk by one rock music memorabilia dealer who then sold them to collectors. The most popular arrangement was a set of ten different tickets. (Below: Billboard 9/25/80, Chicago Tribune 9/25/80).

1980 09 25  Billboard.jpg

 

1980 09 25  Chicago Tribune.jpg

I own a pair of the Chicago tickets.

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Posted (edited)
On 3/31/2020 at 5:03 PM, woz70 said:

No. Obviously the implication is that Page would have been the one to die. 

Jimmy Page, like Keith Richards, seems to be one of those people who has the constitution of a god. So I am not one of those who think Jimmy Page would have od'd had Bonham lived.

I have nothing much to say about the 1980 Euro tour or the prospective U.S. tour because I didn't see them on that tour.

You hear and read all sorts of after-the-fact bits about what the band's state of mind was on just about every tour, but particularly all the post-1973 shows. Even at the time the rock press, especially the English rock press, would float "Led Zeppelin to break-up" stories regularly with no reason.

I never took stock in any of those stories/rumours because of one thing...every time I saw Led Zeppelin from 1972 to 1977 I saw four guys who always looked like they were having fun playing. No matter what was going on in their personal lives (and because of their private nature it was almost impossible to know much about their lives other than just generalities), when the band got on stage they were the four musketeers...one for all, all for one.

Since I did not see them in 1980, I have no idea what their onstage demeanor was like. As for the music itself, all we have to go by are mostly flat, thin sounding soundboards. You can't get a true picture of what the band sounded like to the audience from soundboards. What little video exists is blurry and fragmentary. You cannot tell anything about the interpersonal relationships of the band from them.

Do I have ideas and thoughts about the set list and gear used on the 1980 European tour and the prospective 1980 U.S. tour? Sure.

But do I have any idea of what their state of mind was in 1980? Not a clue.

All I do know is that back in 1980 as the first news of the 1980 U.S. tour was leaking out I was on pins and needles waiting to hear when and where the Los Angeles dates would be. The memories of the 1977 Forum shows were still fresh and I was looking forward to the next chapter of Led Zeppelin.

Them came September 25, 1980.

I knew it was over then.

Edited by Strider

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