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Led Zeppelin 1980


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5 hours ago, Badgeholder Still said:

The problem is when speculation becomes mythology which people end up accepting as fact. "I heard 
Page play some wrong notes in '77 and '80 because he was on heroin, therefore the entire tours have no merit". This shit has been copied and pasted exponentially because enough people have come to believe it as fact. To the detriment of LZ's legacy. That's how spouting bullshit becomes irresponsible.

I don't see the direct connection between how a defense attorney bullshits on behalf of his guilty client and how the legacy of a great band should be maintained. Bullshit has no place in the latter.

 

If simple speculation becomes mythology, that's on the person taking it to such a moronic conclusion...don't blame the people speculating. 

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5 hours ago, Brigante said:

Indeed. In 1980, Zeppelin were just back up and running, they'd done a European tour, Robert had agreed to a US tour and they were rehearsing for that tour - yet somehow people take all that and conclude that Robert was going to leave?! Or that Bonham was going to quit due to Jimmy not being permanently on point? Or that Jimmy was going to call a three-year hiatus? None of those conclusions follow from anything that'd actually happened. You build a hypothesis from the available evidence - or you're just spouting bullshit. It's not the same thing. Tell you what, there's this thing called 'critical thinking', see, and...oh, never mind... 😕

You are really going to go this far over people simply wondering about "what if's?" I could see if such speculation was completely out of left field and then presented not as speculation but as fact but that is not the case.

Talk about an over the top reaction to benign posts.

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I've seen JPJ in an interview somewhere where he says they were chuffed about the EU 1980 tour and felt like they were just beginning to build back up into something. I can't source that, but I am sure SAJ or others know the one.

So it seems there was still the feeling of comradery  among them and that they were happy with what was developing. But I still think (speculate) without Peter Grant getting his shit together and Jimmy also cleaning up, there were significant dangers to their health, and no question to their legacy had they proceeded with a US tour.

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3 hours ago, rm2551 said:

I've seen JPJ in an interview somewhere where he says they were chuffed about the EU 1980 tour and felt like they were just beginning to build back up into something. I can't source that, but I am sure SAJ or others know the one.

So it seems there was still the feeling of comradery  among them and that they were happy with what was developing. But I still think (speculate) without Peter Grant getting his shit together and Jimmy also cleaning up, there were significant dangers to their health, and no question to their legacy had they proceeded with a US tour.

JPJ did an interview in 2003 with a Swedish journalist (on YT). Might be what you’re referring to. In it, he says in 1980 there was a renewed optimism in the band, that they had come out of the worst time and that they were leaner and more musically sharp and were looking forward to the ‘80s.

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I can see where some of you might think Brigante is overreacting. On the other hand, here is an example of some website taking speculation here on the forums and concocting a bogus news story from it, complete with a false clickbait headline.

I don't know who the writer Mike Mazzarone is but he is obviously a hack.

https://www.alternativenation.net/john-bonham-disrespected-neil-peart-rush-death/

Edited by Strider
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13 minutes ago, Strider said:

I can see where some of you might think Brigante is overreacting. On the other hand, here is an example of some website taking speculation here on the forums and concocting a bogus news story from it, complete with a false clickbait headline.

I don't know who the writer Mike Mazzarone is but he is obviously a hack.

https://www.alternativenation.net/john-bonham-disrespected-neil-peart-rush-death/

the comments are rroouugghhh!   

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11 hours ago, PeaceFrogYum said:

If simple speculation becomes mythology, that's on the person taking it to such a moronic conclusion...don't blame the people speculating. 

There is no virtue in being, especially knowingly, a source of misinformation, no matter how you spin it to avoid responsibility. 

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7 hours ago, Badgeholder Still said:

There is no virtue in being, especially knowingly, a source of misinformation, no matter how you spin it to avoid responsibility. 

By that logic any time someone speculates, "man, the Stones would have been way better if Mick Taylor would have stayed in the band" is spreading misinformation. I sure would hate to live in your world of absolutes.

Misinformation would be people on here posting something along the lines of, "Zeppelin would have stayed together forever if Bonzo had not died, I know this because Robert told me." That is misinformation because that would be claiming fact, not speculation. I think you need to look up the definition of speculation.

Edited by PeaceFrogYum
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22 hours ago, Strider said:

I can see where some of you might think Brigante is overreacting. On the other hand, here is an example of some website taking speculation here on the forums and concocting a bogus news story from it, complete with a false clickbait headline.

I don't know who the writer Mike Mazzarone is but he is obviously a hack.

https://www.alternativenation.net/john-bonham-disrespected-neil-peart-rush-death/

Alternativenation...what a hack that dude is. Funny to see some quoted there under different names. 
 

I’m in line with those who think they were on the comeback. Jimmy didn’t die in 80-83, during way darker times, so I don’t subscribe to him od’ing in 80-81.  Taking time off when they wanted to would be the key and one album away from fulfilling their Atlantic obligations could’ve been some more breathing room. Until they were ready. 

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14 hours ago, PeaceFrogYum said:

By that logic any time someone speculates, "man, the Stones would have been way better if Mick Taylor would have stayed in the band" is spreading misinformation. I sure would hate to live in your world of absolutes.

Let's look at this post of yours dated March 20:

"Robert was pushed into the tour, plain and simple. He did not want to be there. Bonzo was obviously not very into it as well."  

Sure reads like an assertion of absolute fact (misinformation) to me and undoubtedly many others, particularly fans just discovering the group.

"In my opinion..." is generally used to preface that which is meant to be taken as speculation or conjecture. 

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On ‎4‎/‎15‎/‎2020 at 10:38 PM, hummingbird69 said:

the comments are rroouugghhh!   

A couple of standouts:

"Please delete this website"

"Fuck you, Mike. You are a loser. This is complete garbage. Long walk, short dock"

"Mazzarone, you're a douche bag of epic proportions. Eat shit and die fucktard"

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On 4/15/2020 at 6:10 PM, PeaceFrogYum said:

If simple speculation becomes mythology, that's on the person taking it to such a moronic conclusion...don't blame the people speculating. 

 

23 hours ago, PeaceFrogYum said:

I think you need to look up the definition of speculation.

Let's consider this. If I, through a very strong gut feeling, speculate that you fancy getting frisky with farm animals, then post this on the internet, post this on flyers in your neighborhood and email this speculation to your colleagues, then, only those who received this information would be at fault. I, by your definition, would hold no responsibility at all, correct? Because speculation can't be at fault for creating ideas, only those who interpret the information are to blame. Yes yes?

Wanna try again?

8 hours ago, SteveAJones said:

Let's look at this post of yours dated March 20:

"Robert was pushed into the tour, plain and simple. He did not want to be there. Bonzo was obviously not very into it as well."  

You posted this "speculation"? Really? WTF.  

image.thumb.png.b6787463edfc524c7439e54b5a6f106e.png

Exactly. Take it from one of your alternate personalities and stop recklessly spouting undocumented information like you're some inside source. 

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15 hours ago, SteveAJones said:

Let's look at this post of yours dated March 20:

"Robert was pushed into the tour, plain and simple. He did not want to be there. Bonzo was obviously not very into it as well."  

Sure reads like an assertion of absolute fact (misinformation) to me and undoubtedly many others, particularly fans just discovering the group.

"In my opinion..." is generally used to preface that which is meant to be taken as speculation or conjecture. 

Ok, I will bite:

Fact on record: Plant had several stipulations before he would even consider the 80' European Tour. That is not speculation, that is FACT. If someone is placing major stipulations, and yes compared to prior tours these were major stipulations indeed, then he was not exactly thrilled to be on tour at that point. Kinda like if you beg your ex to get back with you and she says, "um, ok, but only if you give me all your money, and I get to keep your balls in a jar, and no sex but I can screw whoever I want but you can't screw anyone." Sure, she may be back with you but she obviously don't really want to be. Second fact: Bonzo's drumming on the tour was essentially a human metronome, he was not drumming poorly but his drumming was only what was needed. His thunder of say 77' or even 79' was nowhere to be found except for one or two of the early gigs such as Dortmund.

This is not speculation, this is on record. Also on record is Bonzo not wanting to do the US leg of the 80' tour, he voiced this several times in September before he passed.

What I was speculating on is the same as what everyone else was speculating on...what would have happened if Bonzo lived. The stuff I posted leading up to the point is factual and on record.

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6 hours ago, Badgeholder Still said:

 

Let's consider this. If I, through a very strong gut feeling, speculate that you fancy getting frisky with farm animals, then post this on the internet, post this on flyers in your neighborhood and email this speculation to your colleagues, then, only those who received this information would be at fault. I, by your definition, would hold no responsibility at all, correct? Because speculation can't be at fault for creating ideas, only those who interpret the information are to blame. Yes yes?

 

Go for it, I could not care less as long as you preface it with "I think or I suppose" then have at it. Whoever believe it that's on them, not me. However I have seen a few pretty hot sheep before. Just sayin.

 

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1 hour ago, PeaceFrogYum said:

Ok, I will bite:

Fact on record: Plant had several stipulations before he would even consider the 80' European Tour. That is not speculation, that is FACT. If someone is placing major stipulations, and yes compared to prior tours these were major stipulations indeed, then he was not exactly thrilled to be on tour at that point. Kinda like if you beg your ex to get back with you and she says, "um, ok, but only if you give me all your money, and I get to keep your balls in a jar, and no sex but I can screw whoever I want but you can't screw anyone." Sure, she may be back with you but she obviously don't really want to be. Second fact: Bonzo's drumming on the tour was essentially a human metronome, he was not drumming poorly but his drumming was only what was needed. His thunder of say 77' or even 79' was nowhere to be found except for one or two of the early gigs such as Dortmund.

This is not speculation, this is on record. Also on record is Bonzo not wanting to do the US leg of the 80' tour, he voiced this several times in September before he passed.

What I was speculating on is the same as what everyone else was speculating on...what would have happened if Bonzo lived. The stuff I posted leading up to the point is factual and on record.

Let me educate you. Robert placed no major stipulations on the Over Europe '80 tour. He did place one major stipulation on touring the US in '80, which he expressed to Peter Grant on the tarmac upon return to England as (paraphrasing): "Alright, G. I'll do it but for no longer than a month". If you pull up the Canada/US '80 tour itinerary note it runs one month. Your comments about Bonzo are merely opinions and conjecture.

All that said, I must say it's peculiar you seldom if ever present any analogy without alluding to failed romantic relationships and sexual promiscuity.  

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13 hours ago, SteveAJones said:

Let me educate you. Robert placed no major stipulations on the Over Europe '80 tour. He did place one major stipulation on touring the US in '80, which he expressed to Peter Grant on the tarmac upon return to England as (paraphrasing): "Alright, G. I'll do it but for no longer than a month". If you pull up the Canada/US '80 tour itinerary note it runs one month. Your comments about Bonzo are merely opinions and conjecture.

All that said, I must say it's peculiar you seldom if ever present any analogy without alluding to failed romantic relationships and sexual promiscuity.  

Hey, we write what we know :thumbsup:

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On 4/17/2020 at 8:19 PM, PeaceFrogYum said:

Go for it, I could not care less as long as you preface it with "I think or I suppose" then have at it. Whoever believe it that's on them, not me. However I have seen a few pretty hot sheep before. Just sayin.

Anyone this desperate for attention... best of luck. 

On 4/18/2020 at 11:11 AM, PeaceFrogYum said:

Hey, we write what we know :thumbsup:

Ok. Then maybe the Led Zeppelin 1980 thread isn't for you. Just sayin.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I read somewhere - perhaps in an issue of Tight But Loose, that after recording ITTOD Jimmy said to Bonzo that they would make a harder, more classic Zep album next time. I think it's fair to say that Jimmy wasn't thrilled with ITTOD and maybe Bonzo wasn't either (I'm basing that on what Jimmy was supposed to have said to him). However, it seems to me that after the freedom and contributions that Jones had on the album it wouldn't have been so easy to put him back in his box i.e. the Page/Plant plus Jones would no longer be a given, it would be Page/Plant/Jones all on level ground. Perhaps with Plants ongoing need to experiment and Jones' need to expand his role, I can imagine that if Bonzo had lived there could have been a split appearing in the band with Plant and Jones wanting to head in one direction and Jimmy and Bonzo in another. That would either result in more complexity allied with power or a complete mess as the two parties may not have been able to find any real common ground any more. It's all supposition of course but, like with The Beatles, perhaps it was better the band ended when it did so its legacy remains unblemished.

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