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Wolfman

What ever happened to the rumored new live albums Page had talked about?

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4 hours ago, PeaceFrogYum said:

I understand what you are saying but an official release would sound even better, and have the advantage of true professional distribution. The only people looking for boots are hard core fans. 95% of LZ fans are not looking for boots, they want an official release.

I did not get my first LZ boot until the mid-80's and that was the Ally Pally December 72' (last show). I had not acquired bootleg ears so after one listen I threw it away as I thought the sound was absolute shit. Did not get another boot for almost 25 years I was so disappointed in the quality of that Alexandria Palace show.

Absolutely. The notion that the boot would have any effect on official sales is ludicrous. Casual to semi-serious fans will buy the official release, not even being much aware of a boot... hardcore fans will likely buy it too , even if it's edited to death, like the other official live releases. 

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4 hours ago, hummingbird69 said:

What a shame!  The 2 (22nd-23rd) shows were awesome!

I had no idea in hell what I was doing at the time, thought a bootleg was going to sound just like an official release or close to it. When I put in the tape and the sound was bad it was incredibly disappointing. Yeas later I found out that was a particularly shitty boot and found a much better version which I now cherish. Its not the best quality but it is pretty good.

I recently heard Chicago 1-22-75 as was downright impressed, a very good show.

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Methinks there is a whole stack of baggage that goes with an official release.

1. It could only happen with the consent of all members (or estate).

2. All members (or estate) would have to sign off on the material to be released.

3. Copyright and royalty issues, e.g. Beatles material in the Osaka shows. Unlikely to survive the cut! (just my opinion).

4. Manufacturing (in multiple formats?), marketing, distribution, promotional costs and time.

5. How large is the projected market? Will it make the costs back?

If you go for a streaming model (the rumoured "Led Zeppelin Experience") you still get hit by 1 - 3 above.

The alternative is to unoffically let material surface in which case the issue is how to get it out. If the intention is to get stuff out unofficially for the hardcore fans, I reckon an official leaker would be able to make arrangements for it to be made available via the usual on-line boot distribution channels. The fact that EVSD is sitting on (at least parts of) the Whole Lotta Love soundboard from 929, as evidenced by Twist & Shout being included on the recent 928 release bonus cd, clearly shows that EVSD intends to squeeze as much as possible out of those able to pay the price (Yes, I appreciate that the material eventually surfaces on-line, and in more reasonably priced physical form). There again, is it just pure greed on EVSD's part, or to recover the cost paid for the tape?  I would have thought it unlikely an official leaker would sell to a bootleg label.

So... seems to me that (a) an official leaker could get stuff out for the fans without involving bootleg labels. (b) EVSD coughs up serious amounts of dosh to get hold of tapes from wherever and screws the living daylights out of those able to pay to recover the upfront cost and maximise profit.

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On 4/27/2020 at 4:44 AM, Wolfman said:

We have not heard squat. Thoughts?

Gone with the wind...

Perhaps this is a topic Jimmy Page can go into at length in his autobiography?

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39 minutes ago, Strider said:

Gone with the wind...

Perhaps this is a topic Jimmy Page can go into at length in his autobiography?

+1

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On 4/30/2020 at 1:49 PM, badgeholder said:

Hey, maybe the documentary will have a companion audio release, you never know

Now thats an interesting idea because the documentary and the Japan shows do cover the same time period.

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On 4/30/2020 at 6:31 AM, nigelss said:

I would have thought it unlikely an official leaker would sell to a bootleg label.

In the bootlegging court trial years ago, the Defense specifically asked Page about the fact that he had dinner with Eric Sachs when he visited Tokyo, and whether Page’s photographer Ross Halfin was a “conduit” to get tapes to the bootleg labels for Page, with his consent.

In particular, they questioned how it could be that a home video filmed by Page’s daughter Scarlet, of Page and Plant performing at Cafe de Paris in 1997 somehow made it to the Japan bootleg market.

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20 minutes ago, pluribus said:

In the bootlegging court trial years ago, the Defense specifically asked Page about the fact that he had dinner with Eric Sachs when he visited Tokyo, and whether Page’s photographer Ross Halfin was a “conduit” to get tapes to the bootleg labels for Page, with his consent.

In particular, they questioned how it could be that a home video filmed by Page’s daughter Scarlet, of Page and Plant performing at Cafe de Paris in 1997 somehow made it to the Japan bootleg market.

What were the answers?

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There are a lot of odd things that Jimmy does, like even though Richard Cole wrote his Zep book, and Jimmy was pretty pissed about it, later Jimmy I guess forgot about the book and seemed to become a friend/acquaintance of Richard's.

Earlier it was mentioned about all band members needing to vet any future Zep material and I really don't think Robert or

JPJ care one bit about having to hassle about any Zep live or studio stuff. Also remember that many Zep bootheads ( Including myself) find Jimmy's whitewashed official live releases are so doctored they can almost sound like a different

show. I mean, the Ocean from the 3 cd HTWWW Jimmy completely replaced the guitar solo. I have the two boots which comprise the 3 cd set, it is not a patched up solo, Page replaced the original solo, and it sounds rather strange because Jimmy never sounded like that in 72', so obviously he went into the studio and banged out the replaced solo, which is puzzling because the original cranks, although there are some fidelity problems. Whatever.

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On 4/28/2020 at 5:05 PM, PeaceFrogYum said:

Yes a breech of trust but what better way to get them back than an official release sounding 1000x better than the crap some bootlegger puts out. Plus, it would immediately destroy the market for that boot. Of course hard core fans would still want the warts and all boot but even they would also buy the official release.

Business is business

Yeah...that's what we thought when the news of "How the West Was Won" first leaked. Dream on.

Every time Jimmy has had a chance to "destroy the market" for a particular boot he has come up short. 1972 LA Forum/Long Beach Arena. 1973 Madison Square Garden. 1971 Paris Theatre BBC.

The only show he has released where I was able to finally put away the bootleg was the 1969 Danish TV show.

Does anyone really think it will be different with 1971 Tokyo or Osaka or whatever he releases? Better hold on to your bootlegs.

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12 hours ago, Mithril46 said:

I mean, the Ocean from the 3 cd HTWWW Jimmy completely replaced the guitar solo. I have the two boots which comprise the 3 cd set, it is not a patched up solo, Page replaced the original solo, and it sounds rather strange because Jimmy never sounded like that in 72', so obviously he went into the studio and banged out the replaced solo, which is puzzling because the original cranks, although there are some fidelity problems. Whatever.

Incorrect. HTWWW The Ocean is the unaltered song, including the guitar solo, from 25th June 1972. 

http://www.thegardentapes.co.uk/htwww16.html

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17 hours ago, pluribus said:

In the bootlegging court trial years ago, the Defense specifically asked Page about the fact that he had dinner with Eric Sachs when he visited Tokyo, and whether Page’s photographer Ross Halfin was a “conduit” to get tapes to the bootleg labels for Page, with his consent.

In particular, they questioned how it could be that a home video filmed by Page’s daughter Scarlet, of Page and Plant performing at Cafe de Paris in 1997 somehow made it to the Japan bootleg market.

I think I have the court transcripts on file. Your post will prompt me to check them because I don't remember THOSE questions being asked at all.

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Posted (edited)
21 hours ago, Strider said:

Yeah...that's what we thought when the news of "How the West Was Won" first leaked. Dream on.

Every time Jimmy has had a chance to "destroy the market" for a particular boot he has come up short. 1972 LA Forum/Long Beach Arena. 1973 Madison Square Garden. 1971 Paris Theatre BBC.

The only show he has released where I was able to finally put away the bootleg was the 1969 Danish TV show.

Does anyone really think it will be different with 1971 Tokyo or Osaka or whatever he releases? Better hold on to your bootlegs.

I guess what I am trying to say is even the most popular boot and the money that boot generates is nothing, not even peanuts compared to an official release. If you grabbed 100 random Zep fans and asked them how many bootleg shows of Zep they have you would be hard pressed to find maybe 10 that would have collected boots. The majority of fans are not so into the music they seek unaltered boots of a show, they want an official release. That is all I was saying. The boot market is a very, very niche market when compared to an official release and regardless of what people like us think, the majority of fans want very high quality sounding releases. They don't care how the baby is made, they just want the damn baby.

HTWWW has sold around 2 million copies to date and is a triple album. I can guarantee no Zep boot has ever sold 2 million copies or anywhere close. I was referring only to the potential of sales in regard to why an official release has not been forthcoming.

Edited by PeaceFrogYum

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On 4/30/2020 at 2:49 PM, badgeholder said:

Hey, maybe the documentary will have a companion audio release, you never know

Yes,  some musing by scarlet!

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18 hours ago, SteveAJones said:

I think I have the court transcripts on file. Your post will prompt me to check them because I don't remember THOSE questions being asked at all.

 

It would be so ironic if Jimmy were behind the EVSD Zeppelin releases.

 

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1 hour ago, PeaceFrogYum said:

I guess what I am trying to say is even the most popular boot and the money that boot generates is nothing, not even peanuts compared to an official release. 

Assuming a profit model of selling 500 copies at $300 each for one major bootleg title (think Seattle 1975 or Osaka 1971), that might top $150K, spread out over 6 months of selling. That still wouldn’t cover the costs for Page to do a single day’s press conference in Tokyo to promote an official release. $8K First Class international flights (multiplied for 2-3 people), $4K hotels, $3K meals, Page’s fees ($50k+?), costs for travel services, staff costs, costs for promotional collateral, venue, security, setup, press accommodations...all billed to Warner.

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3 hours ago, PeaceFrogYum said:

I guess what I am trying to say is even the most popular boot and the money that boot generates is nothing, not even peanuts compared to an official release. If you grabbed 100 random Zep fans and asked them how many bootleg shows of Zep they have you would be hard pressed to find maybe 10 that would have collected boots. The majority of fans are not so into the music they seek unaltered boots of a show, they want an official release. That is all I was saying. The boot market is a very, very niche market when compared to an official release and regardless of what people like us think, the majority of fans want very high quality sounding releases. They don't care how the baby is made, they just want the damn baby.

HTWWW has sold around 2 million copies to date and is a triple album. I can guarantee no Zep boot has ever sold 2 million copies or anywhere close. I was referring only to the potential of sales in regard to why an official release has not been forthcoming.

That point I agree with. There's no question the bootleg market is peanuts compared to official releases. I know many Led Zeppelin fans who never knew about bootlegs until I turned them on to their existence.

Which brings me to what I find so irksome about Jimmy Page's reasoning about releasing live stuff or studio archives. His notion about not wanting to release something that is already out on bootleg short-changes the majority of Led Zeppelin fans.

As someone noted earlier in this thread only about 10% of Led Zeppelin fans are hardcore bootleg nuts. So what if there's a soundboard released of 1971 Osaka? Why worry about Godfatherecords "Studio Magick" box set when compiling the companion discs for the reissues when 90% of Led Zeppelin fans had no clue about its existence?

It sometimes appears that Jimmy Page caters more to the Japanese bootleg companies than the regular Led Zeppelin fan.

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Jimmy is way too busy reading poetry these days ....

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5 hours ago, PeaceFrogYum said:

I can guarantee no Zep boot has ever sold 2 million copies or anywhere close.

IDK - I think some of the more famous ones Blueberry Hill, Eddie, Destroyer - Gotta be close to million sold (vinyl and cd)? Of course the actual number is anyones guess. 

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