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How Did They Select Songs for Concerts?


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Can you experts here elaborate on how the band selected songs for live performances ? How were they selected? Who put them in order? Who had the final say? What role did each member have? Did Peter Grant or any one else have input? Atlantic Records? Did they have disagreements, fights over this at any time? Did the process change from 1968 to 1980? Thank you in advance, I always learn much from this forum.

 

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7 minutes ago, John Yr Aur Stomp said:

Can you experts here elaborate on how the band selected songs for live performances ? How were they selected? Who put them in order? Who had the final say? What role did each member have? Did Peter Grant or any one else have input? Atlantic Records? Did they have disagreements, fights over this at any time? Did the process change from 1968 to 1980? Thank you in advance, I always learn much from this forum.

Oh, man there's a lot to unpack there. I'll chime in with a little input and others can add what they wish. Song selection for the live performances was very much a band decision. Peter did not get involved in the process. During the '75 tour, Robert often mentioned onstage that their intent for those performances was to present bits and pieces from the past six and half years. So for that reason the '75 setlists are very much retrospective, but of course they also made certain to include material from their new album, Physical Graffiti. 

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1 hour ago, John Yr Aur Stomp said:

Can you experts here elaborate on how the band selected songs for live performances ? How were they selected? Who put them in order? Who had the final say? What role did each member have? Did Peter Grant or any one else have input? Atlantic Records? Did they have disagreements, fights over this at any time? Did the process change from 1968 to 1980? Thank you in advance, I always learn much from this forum.

 

The idea of Atlantic Records telling Led Zeppelin what songs to play is laughable. Peter and Jimmy would have had any label exec suggesting such a thing tossed out of the dressing room toute de suite.

 The set list for the tours was obviously a band thing. To the degree with which each member had a say in what was played and in what order we will never know until the writers who continue to get access for interviews stop asking the same boring questions about Stairway to Heaven and groupies and partying.

Since none of us were in the room with the band when the decisions were made about the set lists, all we can do is come up with conjecture based on past interview snippets and what we know about the state of the band's health at any particular time.

For instance, from 1968 to mid-1972 Robert Plant could sing anything he wanted so there were no restrictions on what song he could or could not sing. But after he damaged his voice and then had to have vocal mode surgery, certain songs for cut permanently from the set. "Immigrant Song" for one. I've often felt "The Ocean" was dropped for the same reason. 

Certain songs the band is on record as liking to play. "Dazed and Confused" being one. If the band liked to play a song, it was in the set, simple as that. In the early days when they only had one or two albums of material, they didn't have much room to manoeuvre. 

By the middle of 1970 though, when they had three albums of songs to choose from, they were able to drop some of the dead weight from the set. Which is why the live shows became so consistently explosive in that period from 1970 to 1972.

Another example is Jimmy's finger injury in 1975. This directly caused the dropping of "Dazed and Confused" from the set until his finger could handle the strain. But since Jimmy wanted to keep the bow solo segment in the show, he replaced "Dazed and Confused" with "How Many More Times" until his finger healed.

A big consideration for Jimmy regarding songs and in particular what order they were played was what guitar was needed for a certain song and what tuning the guitar needed. Jimmy couldn't play two songs back to back on the 12-string doubleneck if they needed different tunings.

Jones liked playing keyboards so any song in which he could express himself on the keyboards and show off his versatility would certainly be welcomed to the set list by him. "Since I've Been Living You". "Thank You". "No Quarter". "Trampled Under Foot". "All of My Love".

Bonham had his drum solo spotlight, although there are times when he seemed tired of "Moby Dick" and might have preferred to put the song in mothballs. But again, we weren't privy to the set list conversations and until the writers stop being so lazy and uninformed with their questions, we will never know for sure.

 

Edited by Strider
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What I've always loved about the early shows was the spontaneity and variety of songs/covers during the medleys. They seemed to be having so much fun covering everything from Elvis, to The Beatles to Buffalo Springfield and Buddy Holly. Anything was possible on any given night. As the years went on, they still had that spirt, but the shows and sets became more structured and standard.    

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I think I agree with most of what you've said.

But:

11 hours ago, Strider said:

Jimmy couldn't play two songs back to back on the 12-string doubleneck if they needed different tunings.

I don't remember well, so I could be wrong. But I think 'The Song Remains The Same' is in standard tune and 'The Rain Song' isn't. That's why Jimmy used the twelve-string neck for 'TSRTS' and the six-string neck for 'TRS'. Each neck in a different tuning.

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 5/31/2020 at 6:56 AM, Rodrigo said:

I think I agree with most of what you've said.

But:

I don't remember well, so I could be wrong. But I think 'The Song Remains The Same' is in standard tune and 'The Rain Song' isn't. That's why Jimmy used the twelve-string neck for 'TSRTS' and the six-string neck for 'TRS'. Each neck in a different tuning.

I know that. I am talking about if he was using the 12-string neck only for back-to-back songs.

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Many factors at play. One was song popularity, of course. They didn't completely dismiss what the audience was expecting in favor of their own preferences. WLL wasn't in the set until late 69, after it hit as a single. They certainly knew they had something big in STH, even before LZ IV was released. But it wasn't placed in a featured spot in the set (Japan 72) until it became obvious it was becoming a monster. Even then, audiences were still screaming for WLL well into 72.

Once they started recording LZ III, they started adding preferred tracks to the set once they were ready regardless of when the resulting album might be released. Recall they held back performing LZ II material (for the most part) through the Summer tour.

Then consideration was given to what the band thought certain audiences were receptive to at given times. Examples, I think they dropped the acoustic set in 72 because they were a bit fed up with audience impatience. The medley largely went away in 73 because they felt the oldies had largely run their course with the American audience imo. Plus, their own material was filling up more and more of the set (pretty much all of it).

As for song order, the start was designed to bash the audience over the head with a 2 or 3 song hammer. Then there was Jimmy's concept of light and shade, shifts in mood during a show. This could be accomplished via song order and within a longer number. Extended solos were spaced to give other band members a bit of a break. Also, in the later years there were keyboard numbers strung together to accommodate JPJ.

By 73, the stage presentation became elaborate enough that the set list had to become a bit "static." The crew - stage, sound, lights, effects - had to know what was coming in order to choreograph the show. It's amazing it all came together so seamlessly. None of those Spinal Tap "follies" came from a Zeppelin show.

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This is a excellent topic. With many angles. One example, after 75', no more D&C. Perhaps the band grew tired of it, but it's

also possible that Page was not up to it. At least the 25 min+ versions. And then songs that were attempted live but were

shadows of the studio versions.Dancing Days, The Ocean( sometimes good, but overall not jelling), When The Levee Breaks, The Wanton Song,,Four Sticks,etc. It's also so interesting that with an elaborate stage presentation, starting much stronger in 75', the song selection simply had to be locked in pretty strongly. I think that before 73' things were far more 

fluid and you never knew what was coming, even though back then there were setlists as well, but not hammered down

like  77' for example. As a side note I always thought the 80' Europe tour could have had much better song choices.

But Jimmy and Bonzo, probably noticed by Plant and Jones, maybe simply weren't up to mastering other Zep tracks

which weren't played live before. Well, that's my two cents.....

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