Stairway Solo from TSRTS - Tone

[Christopher Lees]

Does Jimmy have any overdrive at all on the Stairway solo from The Song Remains the Same? I'm starting to think it's about 90% clean but I want your expert opinions.

[bluecongo]

In 73 Jimmy just used the natural drive of his Marshall Amps, no overdrive pedals or anything like that.  His Echoplex also added a little drive. 

[Christopher Lees]

1 hour ago, bluecongo said:

In 73 Jimmy just used the natural drive of his Marshall Amps, no overdrive pedals or anything like that.  His Echoplex also added a little drive. 

He must be using some kind of overdrive pedal because even if I crank my Marshal up (1977) there is almost no overdrive at all, let alone enough to make WLL sound right. Did the EchoPlex really add that much drive?

[zeplz71]

7 hours ago, Christopher Lees said:

He must be using some kind of overdrive pedal because even if I crank my Marshal up (1977) there is almost no overdrive at all, let alone enough to make WLL sound right. Did the EchoPlex really add that much drive?

#1) Your Marshall is not the same as JP's. His were custom modified. #2) Your tubes could be worn out.  I have a similar amp to Jimmy's at the time which used KT88 tubes and it has lots of overdrive. Sounds very similar to his when it's cranked up.

[ADK-Zeppy]

I have read on other websites that Jimmy did not use much gain on his amps.  That huge tone from his Marshall amps was mostly sheer volume and controlled from his guitar.
 

ADK-Zeppy

 

[Christopher Lees]

8 hours ago, zeplz71 said:

#1) Your Marshall is not the same as JP's. His were custom modified. #2) Your tubes could be worn out.  I have a similar amp to Jimmy's at the time which used KT88 tubes and it has lots of overdrive. Sounds very similar to his when it's cranked up.

My memory might fail me here so please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Jimmy made the KT88 mod, going from 100watts to 200watts, in 1975 and he played on stage with his volume at about 3, according to him. This was so he could get more head room for songs like stairway. If you listen to the 75 tour, it seems like he has a much cleaner tone too. He rocked harder with more overdrive in 71-73 according to my ears.

[sam_webmaster]

MSG 73 used the KT88 mod.  I have an excellent repro of it from Royal Amps.

http://www.royalamps.com/specs.html

They offer it in 100w or 50w:  "MSG 100" and "MSG 50" models.

 

[pageluvva]

Can't help ya on the effects he might or might not have used but damn if that isn't one of the finest solos ever played on a guitar.

It is a masterpiece. 

[rose62]

You want to hear some live tone pick up Fandango!  Wow!  

[sixpense]

On 6/3/2020 at 8:01 PM, Christopher Lees said:

Does Jimmy have any overdrive at all on the Stairway solo from The Song Remains the Same? I'm starting to think it's about 90% clean but I want your expert opinions.

I don't think it was the Marshall but some small amp; more than likely the Vox AC15 or Vox AC30. Eddie Kramer in a recent interview stated that Jimmy rarely used Marshall Amps for solos but small amps. He cited that Jimmy used a Rocket 88 amp and an Ampeg amp during recording.

[Christopher Lees]

On 6/7/2020 at 8:28 PM, sixpense said:

I don't think it was the Marshall but some small amp; more than likely the Vox AC15 or Vox AC30. Eddie Kramer in a recent interview stated that Jimmy rarely used Marshall Amps for solos but small amps. He cited that Jimmy used a Rocket 88 amp and an Ampeg amp during recording.

At MSG in 73?

[jsj]

On ‎6‎/‎8‎/‎2020 at 1:28 AM, sixpense said:

I don't think it was the Marshall but some small amp; more than likely the Vox AC15 or Vox AC30. Eddie Kramer in a recent interview stated that Jimmy rarely used Marshall Amps for solos but small amps. He cited that Jimmy used a Rocket 88 amp and an Ampeg amp during recording.

Page said he used the Supro amp on the studio recording of stairway

[Silverseas]

On stage he also used a Vox (?) wha pedal set at like 75% closed.

[pluribus]

On 6/7/2020 at 5:28 PM, sixpense said:

I don't think it was the Marshall but some small amp; more than likely the Vox AC15 or Vox AC30. Eddie Kramer in a recent interview stated that Jimmy rarely used Marshall Amps for solos but small amps. He cited that Jimmy used a Rocket 88 amp and an Ampeg amp during recording.

Eddie Kramer wasn’t the engineer on Zeppelin IV, so he wouldn’t know what Page used for Stairway. It is widely known that Page used small combos in the studio, though. 

[pluribus]

2 hours ago, Silverseas said:

On stage he also used a Vox (?) wha pedal set at like 75% closed.

No. This is a myth that came up because people watched TSRTS and there is a section where Page does the soloing in Dazed and has the wah on. That section was actually caused by the cameraman stepping on Page’s wah during a closeup, and you can see Page move closer to the cameraman to turn the wah back off. Pretty cool moment actually. 
 

See this clip, at 17:30 Page is soloing and the cameraman moves closer. At around 17:40 the cameraman accidentally steps on Page’s wah while getting the close up. You can hear the wah sound and see Page look over and move towards the cameraman to turn the wah off around 17:48, but instead leaves it on to do his downward solo run:

 

[rm2551]

33 minutes ago, pluribus said:

No. This is a myth that came up because people watched TSRTS and there is a section where Page does the soloing in Dazed and has the wah on. That section was actually caused by the cameraman stepping on Page’s wah during a closeup, and you can see Page move closer to the cameraman to turn the wah back off. Pretty cool moment actually. 
 

See this clip, at 17:30 Page is soloing and the cameraman moves closer. At around 17:40 the cameraman accidentally steps on Page’s wah while getting the close up. You can hear the wah sound and see Page look over and move towards the cameraman to turn the wah off around 17:48, but instead leaves it on to do his downward solo run:

 

A few seconds later an angry looking stage hand briefly walks on stage toward the camera - I wonder if he was going to have a word with the camera man that stepped on the pedal?

[sixpense]

On 6/10/2020 at 5:33 AM, jsj said:

Page said he used the Supro amp on the studio recording of stairway

Link?

[jsj]

Having looked at my post I think I meant to type Selmer, not Supro, did he even use Supros? Anyway I think it was in a magazine special (classic rock, mojo or similar) on the 4th album. I’ll dig it out. 

[PeaceFrogYum]

36 minutes ago, jsj said:

Having looked at my post I think I meant to type Selmer, not Supro, did he even use Supros? Anyway I think it was in a magazine special (classic rock, mojo or similar) on the 4th album. I’ll dig it out. 

Yep, sure did, the Tele / Supro combo is all over the 1st album

[pluribus]

4 hours ago, PeaceFrogYum said:

Yep, sure did, the Tele / Supro combo is all over the 1st album

Yep. The amp pictured here, on the ground to the right of Page, to be exact. A Supro 1690T Coronado with the 2x10 speakers replaced with a single 12 inch speaker:

 

Here's what the amp looks like in stock form: https://reverb.com/item/4664267-jimmy-page-1961-supro-coronado-tube-amp-2-6l6-2-x10-jensons-valco-made-tube-rectified-combo-amp#full

Edited July 4, 2020 by pluribus

[PeaceFrogYum]

1 hour ago, pluribus said:

Yep. The amp pictured here, on the ground to the right of Page, to be exact. A Supro 1690T Coronado with the 2x10 speakers replaced with a single 12 inch speaker:

 

Here's what the amp looks like in stock form: https://reverb.com/item/4664267-jimmy-page-1961-supro-coronado-tube-amp-2-6l6-2-x10-jensons-valco-made-tube-rectified-combo-amp#full

Notice how Page has his guitar hanging high in the studio vs. low when playing live.

[pluribus]

5 minutes ago, PeaceFrogYum said:

Notice how Page has his guitar hanging high in the studio vs. low when playing live.

Those are actually from the first set photos of him with the guitar. He kept it at relatively “normal” height through 1972. It really wasn’t until he got that skinny strap in mid-72 that the guitar dropped lower.

[PeaceFrogYum]

2 minutes ago, pluribus said:

Those are actually from the first set photos of him with the guitar. He kept it at relatively “normal” height through 1972. It really wasn’t until he got that skinny strap in mid-72 that the guitar dropped lower.

Man, I remember once lowering my strap to Jimmy 1977 level and I thought, how the hell can anyone not a gorilla play a guitar that low. When I play I keep it just a wee bit lower than where Jimmy has his in the pic above, and I mean a WEE bit lower. The neck PU is parallel with my waistline, any lower than that and I just can't play.

[Christopher Lees]

I don't hold my les paul that low at all. What's with all the pressure to sling it so low? Screw that. Can't play. The higher I wear it, the better I play. Honestly, sometimes I see some people wearing their les pauls down by their knees and I think they look silly. It reminds me of those annoying people who wear their pants down by their crotch.

This thread seems to have gotten on to Jimmy's tone on the studio version of STH, but I was talking about the live version from TSRTS. It's hard for me to tell how much gain he's using on the solo. I've experimented quite a bit and when I use almost no gain, it doesn't sound right, but most everyone says Jimmy used very little gain. It's a mystery to me.

[ADK-Zeppy]

On the Led Zeppelin albums and stage performances, I don't think Page was using all that much gain as compared to what I hear in the 2007 O2 performance. In the later one, you can hear the gain rumbling in his amp(s) even when playing softly, and in the Zeppelin, his tone was mainly derived from sheer volume......and it's that era that I think Jimmy deserves a heap of credit in the amount of control that he demonstrated in how he could handle an amp on the verge of it blowing up;  not withstanding the amount of tones that he summoned forth from them.  Hendrix was another one and both players were amongst the few at the time that could play at extreme volume and still sound great.

 

ADK-Zeppy