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gibsonfan159

Nitpicking Page 1985- Live Aid

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Nitpicking Page Live Aid 1985

Screenshot_20200514-231155.thumb.png.05e355b93b8bb3739df227c010c836f0.png

 

First time video nitpick. A legendarily bad performance, so let's see what really happens here. Featuring Robert Plant, Jimmy Page, John Paul Jones, Paul Martinez (Bass), Tony Thompson (Drums), and Phil Collins (Drums).

Intro- This video opens with Phil Collins introducing the band. The stage crew are hurriedly grabbing equipment and scurrying away. 

Rock And Roll- 1:27, Page checks his tuning and it's obvious he's using a thick chorus effect. 2:14, Page throws a jab at a mic stand. Plant's voice is rough for 1985, more like 1975. Solo- now whether or not the guitar is in tune is hard to judge considering the heavy chorus effect, but it does sound slightly flat. The solo however is played fairly adequately. The drumming is a little loose but considering there's two drummers it's not bad. 5:48, there's a man wearing shorts that no man should ever wear. 

WLL- 6:22, Page looking a little too relaxed. 7:31, a tech runs out and adjusts something behind Jimmy. 7:50, Collins is lost and just stops while Thompson puts down the proper drum fill. Solo- Page gets a fairly basic, but good set of phrases down. 8:08, some confusion on drums. 9:09, Plant gives a look as to wonder if he should go for the high note. That's not happening, but he does alright. 10:02, Page comes in with an outro solo, a little inarticulate but not terrible. 

Stairway To Heaven- 11:44, Page does a very strange gesture. 12:37, the look Plant gives Page shown above. Page is fairly consistent so far. 15:14, a drum count in can be heard although it's not time for them to come in. 16:13, Page discards his scarf but it ends up hanging around his guitar cable. 17:34, Collins again not really playing as he follows Tony's lead. 18:20, Page's guitar again sounding a little flat. Solo- decent phrasing off the bat, but he's playing very reserved. 18:35, a cymbal flies off Rob's tambourine. 19:07, the drumming starts getting very messy here. Page utilizes lots of powerful bends in place of articulate phrasing, but it's an effective solo overall. 19:35, Page starts the final four phrases of the solo but Plant jumps in after only two measures, ending the solo prematurely. 21:42, those shorts again. 


Final Assessment- “Jimmy says, ‘We need to rehearse.’ And I said,: ‘Can’t we just go on stage and have a play?’ -Phil Collins. Was Phil the center of this televised disaster? Probably not. It's obviously a culmination of Plant being hoarse, Page being out of it, and under-rehearsed guest musicians. But let's be honest here, I haven't nitpicked anything from this show that comes anywhere close to rivaling the worst of Zep from previous years. Compared to Plant's previous hoarseness (Sheffield 73), Page's previous sloppiness (Berlin 1980), or Bonham's worst performance (Nuremberg 1980 or San Diego 1977), it's just not that bad. In fact, it's an overall fairly solid show with some blemishes. Had this been with one drummer and no chorus effect on the guitar, I don't think anyone would've noticed anything too out of the ordinary. 

Collins-  “Onstage I don’t take my eyes off Tony Thompson. I’m glued to him. I’m having to follow – he’s taking the heavy-handed lead and has opted to ignore all my advice. Putting myself in his shoes, he’s probably thinking, ‘This is the beginning of a new career. John Bonham isn’t around any more. They’re gonna want someone. This could be the start of a Led Zeppelin reunion. And I don’t need this English fuck in my way." No, Mr Collins, Tony played the song mostly the way it was supposed to be played. You were the one air drumming because you didn't know what to do. As far as Page blaming his guitar being out of tune, he knows how to tune a guitar and checked the tuning before launching Rock And Roll. No real excuses there. I still believe the chorus/flange effect is the main culprit here and most people are mistaking that effect as the "out of tune" sound. 

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Excellent nitpick as always. This one actually prompted me to watch the performance in full for the first time, and it really wasn't that bad. Other than some bad articulation here and there for Page, his playing is fairly solid and just dragged down by that awful phaser effect. Plant's hoarseness isn't pretty, but he still sounds better than just about any given show from 73 to 75. Also his stepping on Page's solo is quite ugly. Although it's clearly not just him, I'd say a majority of the more unsavory moments do come from Phil. he doesn't seem drunk or out of it, he just straight up doesn't know the songs. I mean, if I were about to go on stage in front of a sold out JFK stadium and there was another guy who actually knew how to play the songs, I'd say fuck it, sit it out and let the guy who knows how to play, play lmao. 

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Posted (edited)

Phil Carlo said the techs actually turned Collins' mics off for Stairway. Awkward.

 

Edit...that look at 12.35 is pretty enigmatic. People commenting on YouTube seemed to think it was Plant laughing cos he realises Jimmy's not 100% sober. I wonder if it's actually the moment when Plant realises that, whatever he thinks of it, he'll never ever escape this song!

Edited by 76229

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To me the overall sound of the broadcast sounds like a bootleg. like the audio of the show was being picked up by remote mics and then broadcast. The drums are buried in the mix as is Page's Guitar.  There are a few times where Phils drums are inaudible. Robert is the only thing in the mix that sounds proper.  After watching this again, it's certainly not the train wreck it's been made out to be. Jimmy seems fine to me. He doesn't look out of it or drunk. His playing wasn't bad but with the chorus and the bad mix he's not coming through very clearly.  Had they not used the chorus effect and the mix been better I think this would have broadcast much better than it did.  You can tell the audience loved it so the sound must have been better there than on tv.   phil can jump in a lake. He never looked like he was drumming in time with the music although the couple glimpses of Tony showed him to be in the groove. I don't know if that's down to bad drumming or bad camera work but either way Phil was as useless as tits on a bull.

I think this performance was lacking due to outside influences rather than the boys sucking. So Roberts voice was rough, once he warmed up he was better and who can blame him for not being rehearsed?   Jimmy Played fine and jones was solid as usual.

I think this performance has been redeemed.

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It was an unprofessional performance by guys who were always professionals on stage.  Even when they had a few pops before hand, they always brought their "A Game".  They weren't prepared.  Bonham proved during his concert how important he was to the sound they had all developed.  Page in particular in this concert, seemed to miss the cues and fills Bonham would normally have provided .

Collins was out of place for sure.  Not entirely his fault, he probably would have done better if he had been the only drummer on stage and been forced to fill the song in himself, I can't imagine trying to drum while relying on someone else doing the same.

 

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I remember watching this at the time aged 20. As soon as Page hit his guitar I knew we were in for a rough ride. Whether he wanted the heavy effect laden sound by choice, I don’t think we know, but if he did, it was a terrible decision. Maybe he was out of tune also, but the effect was so heavy it was/is hard to tell

Overall, I don’t think it’s as bad as is sometimes written. I think had Page have had a good sound, they’d have got away with it. His playing wasn’t great, but it was alright and good enough. Even Planty cutting in early before the end of the stairway solo is ok to regular non Zeppelin fans. Had Phil Collins have  just played on the first song and left the stage, would also have helped

i think Page was very lucky not to have tripped over his own scarf, and he was looking close to achieving it. Now that really would have been a disaster. He nearly butted a stagehand while bowing to the crowd, and almost got into a fight with a mic stand before they’d even started playing. 

I think that by not permitting it to be included on the official DVD has added to the general opinion that they were worse than they actually were. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, jsj said:

I remember watching this at the time aged 20. As soon as Page hit his guitar I knew we were in for a rough ride. Whether he wanted the heavy effect laden sound by choice, I don’t think we know, but if he did, it was a terrible decision. Maybe he was out of tune also, but the effect was so heavy it was/is hard to tell

Overall, I don’t think it’s as bad as is sometimes written. I think had Page have had a good sound, they’d have got away with it. His playing wasn’t great, but it was alright and good enough. Even Planty cutting in early before the end of the stairway solo is ok to regular non Zeppelin fans. Had Phil Collins have  just played on the first song and left the stage, would also have helped

i think Page was very lucky not to have tripped over his own scarf, and he was looking close to achieving it. Now that really would have been a disaster. He nearly butted a stagehand while bowing to the crowd, and almost got into a fight with a mic stand before they’d even started playing. 

I think that by not permitting it to be included on the official DVD has added to the general opinion that they were worse than they actually were. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hey now, I saw the vidie and that mic stand had it coming.

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I’ve always thought Jimmy played decently, just hampered by terrible sound. 
Phil Collins was a joke, though.  

If Jimmy had played this well at Atlantic 40th, things could’ve been very different vis a vis Zeppelin reunions 

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Posted (edited)

That was a good, fair review Gibsonfan.

I was also ok with Jimmy's performance. It's not 1973 Page, but compared to the ARMS shows from just a year or so earlier, he played much better and looked healthier. I really liked the spontaneous solo he whipped out towards the end of WLL too.  

John Paul Jones was his usual flawless, confident self. He is a natural ... a consummate pro.. 

Paul Martinez seems like a cool guy and a very good Bassist,, but wasn't really needed. His clangy Bass sound on Stairway is a little out of place. But in the spirit of a charity gig.... Why not?                                               I also strongly suspect that MTV VJ Alan Hunter thought Martinez was from Led Zeppelin.. and didn't know who JPJ was... His post performance interview with Page  Plant, Jones, Collins and Martinez is cringe worthy. Search it out on youtube..   

I've also said and agree Phil Collins should have quietly slipped off the stage after Rock And Roll or loudly .... or whatever... He just should have cleared the HELL out.. Neither drummer knew the Live ending of Whole Lotta Love either... at all... That was a complete train wreck ending... Also, as mentioned .... someone (I assume Phil) started to click in the drums to STH A VERSE EARLY..! That would have been a disaster. Robert cut off Jimmy's solo too. 

Robert's voice was kind of hoarse, but he did ok... I saw him about 2 weeks after Live Aid (Worcestor Mass) .... and he sounded great.. 

It really isn't that bad overall.... Certainly not as bad as they seem to think.... And it was for charity..  

Edited by the chase

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On 6/9/2020 at 7:49 AM, gibsonfan159 said:

Nitpicking Page Live Aid 1985

Screenshot_20200514-231155.thumb.png.05e355b93b8bb3739df227c010c836f0.png

 

First time video nitpick. A legendarily bad performance, so let's see what really happens here. Featuring Robert Plant, Jimmy Page, John Paul Jones, Paul Martinez (Bass), Tony Thompson (Drums), and Phil Collins (Drums).

Intro- This video opens with Phil Collins introducing the band. The stage crew are hurriedly grabbing equipment and scurrying away. 

Rock And Roll- 1:27, Page checks his tuning and it's obvious he's using a thick chorus effect. 2:14, Page throws a jab at a mic stand. Plant's voice is rough for 1985, more like 1975. Solo- now whether or not the guitar is in tune is hard to judge considering the heavy chorus effect, but it does sound slightly flat. The solo however is played fairly adequately. The drumming is a little loose but considering there's two drummers it's not bad. 5:48, there's a man wearing shorts that no man should ever wear. 

WLL- 6:22, Page looking a little too relaxed. 7:31, a tech runs out and adjusts something behind Jimmy. 7:50, Collins is lost and just stops while Thompson puts down the proper drum fill. Solo- Page gets a fairly basic, but good set of phrases down. 8:08, some confusion on drums. 9:09, Plant gives a look as to wonder if he should go for the high note. That's not happening, but he does alright. 10:02, Page comes in with an outro solo, a little inarticulate but not terrible. 

Stairway To Heaven- 11:44, Page does a very strange gesture. 12:37, the look Plant gives Page shown above. Page is fairly consistent so far. 15:14, a drum count in can be heard although it's not time for them to come in. 16:13, Page discards his scarf but it ends up hanging around his guitar cable. 17:34, Collins again not really playing as he follows Tony's lead. 18:20, Page's guitar again sounding a little flat. Solo- decent phrasing off the bat, but he's playing very reserved. 18:35, a cymbal flies off Rob's tambourine. 19:07, the drumming starts getting very messy here. Page utilizes lots of powerful bends in place of articulate phrasing, but it's an effective solo overall. 19:35, Page starts the final four phrases of the solo but Plant jumps in after only two measures, ending the solo prematurely. 21:42, those shorts again. 


Final Assessment- “Jimmy says, ‘We need to rehearse.’ And I said,: ‘Can’t we just go on stage and have a play?’ -Phil Collins. Was Phil the center of this televised disaster? Probably not. It's obviously a culmination of Plant being hoarse, Page being out of it, and under-rehearsed guest musicians. But let's be honest here, I haven't nitpicked anything from this show that comes anywhere close to rivaling the worst of Zep from previous years. Compared to Plant's previous hoarseness (Sheffield 73), Page's previous sloppiness (Berlin 1980), or Bonham's worst performance (Nuremberg 1980 or San Diego 1977), it's just not that bad. In fact, it's an overall fairly solid show with some blemishes. Had this been with one drummer and no chorus effect on the guitar, I don't think anyone would've noticed anything too out of the ordinary. 

Collins-  “Onstage I don’t take my eyes off Tony Thompson. I’m glued to him. I’m having to follow – he’s taking the heavy-handed lead and has opted to ignore all my advice. Putting myself in his shoes, he’s probably thinking, ‘This is the beginning of a new career. John Bonham isn’t around any more. They’re gonna want someone. This could be the start of a Led Zeppelin reunion. And I don’t need this English fuck in my way." No, Mr Collins, Tony played the song mostly the way it was supposed to be played. You were the one air drumming because you didn't know what to do. As far as Page blaming his guitar being out of tune, he knows how to tune a guitar and checked the tuning before launching Rock And Roll. No real excuses there. I still believe the chorus/flange effect is the main culprit here and most people are mistaking that effect as the "out of tune" sound. 

I think the way page looked quite possibly had something to do with it as well. For example, if you go on any video of the STH performance on YouTube, there’s endless comments insulting page for playing terribly and looked very intoxicated - which he may well have been, but the solo and the playing during that song in general, wasn’t too bad and wasn’t actually really sloppy at all, as you’ve said. 

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Posted (edited)

It's almost like being at a live show can create the illusion of a great performance, whereas for the first time since 1969 fans also got to see them televised- which made the cold hard truth of a mediocre performance look like a train wreck. Truth is, it wasn't a train wreck. It just seemed like it when you're watching it on a screen at home where you can notice the details. This was simply an over exaggerated response from fans toward an a imperfect show. 8/11/79 is the real blunder. And then there's Nuremberg 1980...

Edited by gibsonfan159

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Can we nick pick Mark Goodman's introduction? It was SO cringy the way he said "That's Rock and Roll and they're gonna do Stairway".  I remember watching it live and was thinking what a super douche Mark Goodman was.....

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The worst part was MTV spelling out “Jimmy Paige”...he wasn’t in Duran Duran so they didn’t know or care...and then at one point when they list out the lineup of musicians, their wonder boy Collins’ name appears BEFORE the Zeps!  

Insipid, but here we are all these years later still talking about the mighty Zep while MTV has died a death.  Too bad.

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8 hours ago, The Only Way To Fly said:

Can we nick pick Mark Goodman's introduction? It was SO cringy the way he said "That's Rock and Roll and they're gonna do Stairway".  I remember watching it live and was thinking what a super douche Mark Goodman was.....

"I can't give it all away". You just named two and they're only playing three. 

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2 hours ago, gibsonfan159 said:

"I can't give it all away". You just named two and they're only playing three. 

:hysterical:

To be fair he did not give it ALL away, just 2/3.

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Great review

My favorite part of live aid is jimmy page singing backup vocals on whole lotta love and then head banging

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Are Page and Plant performing from memory here, or was there some prior rehearsal for this performance?

 

ADK-Zeppy

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23 minutes ago, ADK-Zeppy said:

Are Page and Plant performing from memory here, or was there some prior rehearsal for this performance?

 

ADK-Zeppy

https://www.johnpauljones.com/bio/
After an hour-long rehearsal earlier in the day, I performed with Jimmy Page, Robert Plant, Phil Collins and Tony Thompson at Philadelphia’s JFK Stadium in support of “Live Aid” charity event.

1985-live-aid-rehearsal-1.jpg

 

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On 6/9/2020 at 7:20 PM, jsj said:

i think Page was very lucky not to have tripped over his own scarf, and he was looking close to achieving it. Now that really would have been a disaster. He nearly butted a stagehand while bowing to the crowd, and almost got into a fight with a mic stand before they’d even started playing. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is always what I think when I see this footage.  Why is that scarf so long?  I get preoccupied by how close it gets to his feet.

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On 6/16/2020 at 8:17 AM, sam_webmaster said:

https://www.johnpauljones.com/bio/
After an hour-long rehearsal earlier in the day, I performed with Jimmy Page, Robert Plant, Phil Collins and Tony Thompson at Philadelphia’s JFK Stadium in support of “Live Aid” charity event.

1985-live-aid-rehearsal-1.jpg

 

Plant looks like the guy from Kajagoogoo in that pic.

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