Jimmy Page Effects on 72/73??

[N707]

I’ve been researching and I just found distortion pedals (in general) that Jimmy Page used until 1971, does that mean that after 71 he only used the Gain of his amps? Could someone tell me this, and what effects did he use between 1972/1973? What if he later used some more Fuzz pedal? Thanks 

[pluribus]

He used amp overdrive with a Tonebender MkII for solos, for Zeppelin I, and amp overdrive + a Tonebender MkII for solos through to the end of the first US Tour. With the second US tour, (April-May 1969), he kept the same setup, added a Les Paul, and experimented with leaving the Tonebender on all the time. He switched to a Tonebender MkIII for June-July, which is also when he got his custom Hiwatts. He was on/off with the MKIII with the Hiwatts until the fuzzbox disappeared altogether by August 1969. For 1970 he was all Hiwatt. He used a Univox Unidrive for the Back to the Clubs tour in March 1971, and then a MKIII Tonebender for Montreux 1971. After that, it was his amps only.  He had his Hiwatts modded on a regular basis throughout 1969-1971, just as he also had his Marshall Superbass regularly modded once he switched over in late 1972. It was the combination of the boost in the preamp of the Maestro Echoplex EP-3 together with the mods to his Marshall that gave him his sound from 1972 on.

Edited July 14, 2020 by pluribus

[Paimonus Rex]

Hi,

I don't recall JPP ever using an overdrive or distortion pedal per se live with Zep; he did drop the use of a FUZZ pedal after 1971.  

Note that he did get some additional 'hair' on his live tone via the pre-amp on his Echoplex.  In fact, they make seperate echo plex pre-amp pedals now just for that purpose: https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/EP101--dunlop-ep101-echoplex-preamp-pedal.

All that being said, I believe the only effect he used live from 72 - 73 was an echoplex.  He didn't add the MXR90 phaser until 1975.

 

[PeaceFrogYum]

You forgot the Flanger for the Live Aid gig in 85' 

That was a bit of a Spinal Tap moment

[N707]

3 hours ago, pluribus said:

He used amp overdrive with a Tonebender MkII for solos, for Zeppelin I, and amp overdrive + a Tonebender MkII for solos through to the end of the first US Tour. With the second US tour, (April-May 1969), he kept the same setup, added a Les Paul, and experimented with leaving the Tonebender on all the time. He switched to a Tonebender MkIII for June-July, which is also when he got his custom Hiwatts. He was on/off with the MKIII with the Hiwatts until the fuzzbox disappeared altogether by August 1969. For 1970 he was all Hiwatt. He used a Univox Unidrive for the Back to the Clubs tour in March 1971, and then a MKIII Tonebender for Montreux 1971. After that, it was his amps only.  He had his Hiwatts modded on a regular basis throughout 1969-1971, just as he also had his Marshall Superbass regularly modded once he switched over in late 1972. It was the combination of the boost in the preamp of the Maestro Echoplex EP-3 together with the mods to his Marshall that gave him his sound from 1972 on.

Thank you very much, only a small doubt, do you know if the footswitch (That can be seen in the photo below) what he was using was to activate the drive of his amplifiers? 

3 hours ago, pluribus said:

He used amp overdrive with a Tonebender MkII for solos, for Zeppelin I, and amp overdrive + a Tonebender MkII for solos through to the end of the first US Tour. With the second US tour, (April-May 1969), he kept the same setup, added a Les Paul, and experimented with leaving the Tonebender on all the time. He switched to a Tonebender MkIII for June-July, which is also when he got his custom Hiwatts. He was on/off with the MKIII with the Hiwatts until the fuzzbox disappeared altogether by August 1969. For 1970 he was all Hiwatt. He used a Univox Unidrive for the Back to the Clubs tour in March 1971, and then a MKIII Tonebender for Montreux 1971. After that, it was his amps only.  He had his Hiwatts modded on a regular basis throughout 1969-1971, just as he also had his Marshall Superbass regularly modded once he switched over in late 1972. It was the combination of the boost in the preamp of the Maestro Echoplex EP-3 together with the mods to his Marshall that gave him his sound from 1972 on.

[N707]

2 hours ago, Paimonus Rex said:

Hi,

I don't recall JPP ever using an overdrive or distortion pedal per se live with Zep; he did drop the use of a FUZZ pedal after 1971.  

Note that he did get some additional 'hair' on his live tone via the pre-amp on his Echoplex.  In fact, they make seperate echo plex pre-amp pedals now just for that purpose: https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/EP101--dunlop-ep101-echoplex-preamp-pedal.

All that being said, I believe the only effect he used live from 72 - 73 was an echoplex.  He didn't add the MXR90 phaser until 1975.

 

Thanks.

[pluribus]

3 hours ago, Paimonus Rex said:

Hi,

I don't recall JPP ever using an overdrive or distortion pedal per se live with Zep; he did drop the use of a FUZZ pedal after 1971.  

The only drive pedal he ever used live was the Univox Unidrive, in March 1971. He was even featured in their ads.

[pluribus]

40 minutes ago, N707 said:

Thank you very much, only a small doubt, do you know if the footswitch (That can be seen in the photo below) what he was using was to activate the drive of his amplifiers? 

The footswitch is for activating the echoes on the Echoplex. The Echoplex was always on, and had a preamp circuit built-in that was also always on. All the footswitch did was to activate the tape echo recording and playing back Page’s signal. Just like stepping on a delay pedal.

There was no “activating” the amp overdrive. The overdrive sound was produced by turning the amp up loud, to stage volume. Page achieved his “clean” and “drive” sounds by rolling the individual volume controls for each pickup in his Les Paul up and down. At “10” on one Volume knob, he had the full signal going to the overdriven amp. Rolling that same volume knob back to, say, “5” cleaned up the sound because the overdriven amp was no longer receiving as loud of a signal from the guitar. The Les Paul also has a toggle switch to select the bridge pickup, the neck pickup, or both. Page would roll down the neck pickup’s volume for the intro to Over the Hills, to get the clean sound, and then flip the toggle switch to the bridge pickup already set at “10”, for use when the loud part of the song kicks in. The photo you posted is from the LA Forum, 1972. So, you can actually hear him use that exact rig all over that recording.

Edited July 14, 2020 by pluribus

[N707]

On 7/14/2020 at 6:24 PM, pluribus said:

The footswitch is for activating the echoes on the Echoplex. The Echoplex was always on, and had a preamp circuit built-in that was also always on. All the footswitch did was to activate the tape echo recording and playing back Page’s signal. Just like stepping on a delay pedal.

There was no “activating” the amp overdrive. The overdrive sound was produced by turning the amp up loud, to stage volume. Page achieved his “clean” and “drive” sounds by rolling the individual volume controls for each pickup in his Les Paul up and down. At “10” on one Volume knob, he had the full signal going to the overdriven amp. Rolling that same volume knob back to, say, “5” cleaned up the sound because the overdriven amp was no longer receiving as loud of a signal from the guitar. The Les Paul also has a toggle switch to select the bridge pickup, the neck pickup, or both. Page would roll down the neck pickup’s volume for the intro to Over the Hills, to get the clean sound, and then flip the toggle switch to the bridge pickup already set at “10”, for use when the loud part of the song kicks in. The photo you posted is from the LA Forum, 1972. So, you can actually hear him use that exact rig all over that recording.

Thanks very much dude, appreciated 

[Paimonus Rex]

On 7/14/2020 at 4:24 PM, pluribus said:

There was no “activating” the amp overdrive. The overdrive sound was produced by turning the amp up loud, to stage volume. Page achieved his “clean” and “drive” sounds by rolling the individual volume controls for each pickup in his Les Paul up and down. At “10” on one Volume knob, he had the full signal going to the overdriven amp. Rolling that same volume knob back to, say, “5” cleaned up the sound because the overdriven amp was no longer receiving as loud of a signal from the guitar. The Les Paul also has a toggle switch to select the bridge pickup, the neck pickup, or both. Page would roll down the neck pickup’s volume for the intro to Over the Hills, to get the clean sound, and then flip the toggle switch to the bridge pickup already set at “10”, for use when the loud part of the song kicks in. The photo you posted is from the LA Forum, 1972. So, you can actually hear him use that exact rig all over that recording.

That's such an important aspect to really managing 'live Page tones' so fantastic call out and thank you!

  I think some folks confuse his constant tone/vol adjustments as some sort of nervous tick - but he's really putting in the work to dial in what he wants, when he wants.   I haven't kept up with most modern players but it strikes me as a lost art...

Edited July 17, 2020 by Paimonus Rex

[ADK-Zeppy]

It is something of a lost art these days when Rock guitarists use an array of pedals for their tones; not to mention multi channel amps.  And, Page's #1 Les Paul had a particular set of pickups that were wound in perhaps a haphazard or not uniform manner, givIng it a not so typical Les Paul tone.  There are some Les Pauls that don't lend themselves to the trick of tone sculpting and volume changes in the same manner that Jimmy's did.  His #1 and his playing style were made for each other......think of a violin virtuoso and the Stradivarius that was perfect for him and his manner of playing.

ADk-Zeppy 

 

 

[Christopher Lees]

On 7/14/2020 at 1:33 PM, pluribus said:

It was the combination of the boost in the preamp of the Maestro Echoplex EP-3 together with the mods to his Marshall that gave him his sound from 1972 on.

That's what everyone says. I have an old 70s Marshall that I crank up to stage volume and the overdrive is kind of pathetic to be honest. I have a Les Paul and I've been playing Zeppelin in bands for 30 years. To my ears, Jimmy must have been using some kind of reverb pedal because the natural hall reverb I get doesn't really do enough to keep the guitar tone from sounding very dry and flat. The sustain Jimmy is getting on his solos on TSRTS, say on SIBLY and Dazed is way different from what I get with my Marshall.  I get a more accurate sounding Page tone when I use my little semi-digital amp modeler amp, which I mic and put through the PA. I add a little reverb, set the gain just to where I want it, select from a variety of amp models and it sounds killer.  It's one of those little GDEC-30 amps that are no longer made. I used to use them for when I was giving guitar lessons because they amp had jam loops to play to.  One day I took it to an audition and the guys were blown away by all the tone I was getting out of that little amp.

It's really just a glorified digital effects unit really, but it's easy to use. However, it's starting to malfunction, so I might have to bite the bullet and start lugging that big old Marshall around. I am getting some pedals for it because I'll be damned if I can get a live zeppelin 72-73 tone from it bare bones. I do want to mention that I have not tried it with the echoplex in front of it. That's a big piece of the puzzle I guess. I aim to get one of those echoplex preamp pedals that I see so many good things written about.

 

[N707]

Thanks!!

[Mithril46]

Thanks for all efforts. Why wasn't the wah-wah pedal mentioned ?? Also depending on who you talk to the Tonebender series , Jimmy may have used actually a SoulBender, but as I remember, many companies  reissued various versions of what Jimmy supposedly used. Of course this is highly subjective, but I will say many of those pedals helped you get a Page

sound, I've tried some of them. Of course a pedal alone will never be enough, you must learn solos, riffs, learn songs and ideas by artists who influenced Jimmy.

[pluribus]

12 hours ago, Mithril46 said:

Thanks for all efforts. Why wasn't the wah-wah pedal mentioned ?? Also depending on who you talk to the Tonebender series , Jimmy may have used actually a SoulBender, but as I remember, many companies  reissued various versions of what Jimmy supposedly used. Of course this is highly subjective, but I will say many of those pedals helped you get a Page

sound, I've tried some of them. Of course a pedal alone will never be enough, you must learn solos, riffs, learn songs and ideas by artists who influenced Jimmy.

The Soul-Bender is a modern reproduction of the Tonebender, from a different company (Fulltone). Not the same as the actual vintage pedal that Page used, which was a Tonebender MkII.

The Crybaby Wah-Wah that Page used in 1973 played little part in his sound, beyond providing the familiar wah-wah sound during songs where he used it (No Quarter, Dazed and Confused). If anything, having that wah in his signal chain resulted in having a slight bit of tone-suck, because the wah wasn't true-bypass.

[Morsus]

Hi 

A Very late reply to this thread as I've only just seen it. I've obtained his tone from TSRM by using a electro harmonix muff overdrive (not a big muff) and a Echoplex preamp pedal into a marshall dsl amp. I have a mkII Tonebender fitted with the correct transistors, that is also spot on when used with the above pedals. The muff drives the mkII and the echoplex give the mids a treble boost to the amp.