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Bonzo_fan

Ranking The 1977 Shows

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Guest WD52
1 hour ago, Nutrocker said:

Pretty sure it is, both recordings sound pretty similar- probably the same taper, gear, seating etc. But one C90 ain't gonna cut it for taping Zeppelin, hence why both tapes share the same level of incompleteness...

Interesting idea-but it would mean the taper didn't learn from his mistake and rush out to get a C120 for the second show.

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On 7/29/2020 at 11:42 PM, Nutrocker said:

The recording up to "Kashmir" for June 11 is awesome, though, probably the best MSG '77 recording. I want to say it's the same guy who taped June 14th, which is equally incomplete.

 

10 hours ago, Nutrocker said:

Pretty sure it is, both recordings sound pretty similar- probably the same taper, gear, seating etc. But one C90 ain't gonna cut it for taping Zeppelin, hence why both tapes share the same level of incompleteness...

Then he was a bleeding idiot. If you didn't know by 1977 that Led Zeppelin played three-hour plus shows then you must have been living under a rock. Hell, you couldn't even fit the 1976 official soundtrack "The Song Remains the Same" on a C-90. 

Whatever happened to the loudmouth New York tapers? The ones who taped 1970 and 1971 MSG and 1975 Montreal? Didn't they tape 1977 MSG? And 1973, for that matter?

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Still sorting through the tapes to compile my best of list. But I think I have definitely found my favourite Jimmy Page noise solo of 1977.

Birmingham, Alabama May 18, 1977. A couple bars of "Dixie", a couple bars of "Star-Spangled Banner", a couple of minutes of Theremin laser battles, then five minutes of bow action hitting all the highlights. No muss, no fuss...and no toggle-switch mishaps. An economical and focused ten minutes leading into "Achilles Last Stand".

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14 hours ago, Strider said:

 

Then he was a bleeding idiot. If you didn't know by 1977 that Led Zeppelin played three-hour plus shows then you must have been living under a rock. Hell, you couldn't even fit the 1976 official soundtrack "The Song Remains the Same" on a C-90. 

Whatever happened to the loudmouth New York tapers? The ones who taped 1970 and 1971 MSG and 1975 Montreal? Didn't they tape 1977 MSG? And 1973, for that matter?

Artie and his crowd of Noo Yawk yahoos taped the June 7th and 10th shows at the very least (the alternates to the commonly circulating audience sources). Not sure if they're the same loudmouths who taped the June 8 alternate source as well, but yeah, they hit the Garden in '77 for good or ill. Truth be told I've never cared for the quality of their recordings or the endless yammering (though, to be fair, they probably weren't taping these shows for our benefit, particularly fourty odd years down the road). Too bad none of the REALLY GOOD New York area tapers (such as the guys who taped Pink Floyd and ELP that July) deigned to tape the Zeppelin shows that year. Or even the "Lostbrook" guy...

14 hours ago, Strider said:

Still sorting through the tapes to compile my best of list. But I think I have definitely found my favourite Jimmy Page noise solo of 1977.

Birmingham, Alabama May 18, 1977. A couple bars of "Dixie", a couple bars of "Star-Spangled Banner", a couple of minutes of Theremin laser battles, then five minutes of bow action hitting all the highlights. No muss, no fuss...and no toggle-switch mishaps. An economical and focused ten minutes leading into "Achilles Last Stand".

Indeed. Keeping the Noise Solo (and "White Summer" for that matter) under ten minutes at any given show is optimal. 

The theramin freakouts are the only parts of the Noise Solos I enjoy...by which I mean, "listen to".

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23 hours ago, WD52 said:

Interesting idea-but it would mean the taper didn't learn from his mistake and rush out to get a C120 for the second show.

You'd think so, but it doesn't appear to be the case- both of his June 11 and 14th recordings crap out after "Kashmir". Like Strider said (and myself as well in the past), it's Led fucking Zeppelin, you KNOW they're gonna be doing at least three hours on a good night.

Still, of all the audience tapes available from the six MSG '77 shows, those two recordings are probably the best, followed by one of the June 10 alternate sources. The rest are pretty fair to middlin', unfortunately. Which, like I say, pains me whenever I listen to one of the Pink Floyd MSG '77 shows or Emerson, Lake and Palmer July 8 with the orchestra: "Goddamn, why couldn't these guys have taped at least one of the six Zeppelin shows as well?"

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On 8/1/2020 at 2:46 AM, Nutrocker said:

Artie and his crowd of Noo Yawk yahoos taped the June 7th and 10th shows at the very least (the alternates to the commonly circulating audience sources). Not sure if they're the same loudmouths who taped the June 8 alternate source as well, but yeah, they hit the Garden in '77 for good or ill. Truth be told I've never cared for the quality of their recordings or the endless yammering (though, to be fair, they probably weren't taping these shows for our benefit, particularly fourty odd years down the road). Too bad none of the REALLY GOOD New York area tapers (such as the guys who taped Pink Floyd and ELP that July) deigned to tape the Zeppelin shows that year. Or even the "Lostbrook" guy...

Indeed. Keeping the Noise Solo (and "White Summer" for that matter) under ten minutes at any given show is optimal. 

The theramin freakouts are the only parts of the Noise Solos I enjoy...by which I mean, "listen to".

I thought Artie's source for 6/10 was considered the main source (ie. Source 1)? He's certainly far less chatty on that than is typical. Worst offender for him is probably 9/3/71 which is a great show, but Artie and his gang's near constant blabbering practically ruins it.

Now the third source for 6/10 on the other hand...now THOSE are some chatty motherfuckers! One of the guys almost sets himself on fire during NQ. :lol:

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Posted (edited)

I like the Seattle gig & the funny business going on with what I assume are technical issues with the instruments; I know Jonesy  is making me laugh a bit during NQ & TYG and the nice impromptu jam during the acoustic set....

 

 

😏

Edited by paul carruthers

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10 hours ago, ZepHead315 said:

I thought Artie's source for 6/10 was considered the main source (ie. Source 1)? He's certainly far less chatty on that than is typical. Worst offender for him is probably 9/3/71 which is a great show, but Artie and his gang's near constant blabbering practically ruins it.

Now the third source for 6/10 on the other hand...now THOSE are some chatty motherfuckers! One of the guys almost sets himself on fire during NQ. :lol:

I find myself enjoying the chatter on that tape, really gives you a snapshot into that exact night and adds to the atmosphere. It's a piece of history, although one does have to be in the right mood to listen to it. 

I can't remember if it's the same show or tapers (I'm sure Nutrocker can help me out on this one) but during NQ on one of the NY '77 shows you can hear the tapers giving a girl a hit off her first joint, which always makes me laugh. Imagine that, your first time high being at a '77 LZ show!

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11 hours ago, ZepHead315 said:

I thought Artie's source for 6/10 was considered the main source (ie. Source 1)? He's certainly far less chatty on that than is typical. Worst offender for him is probably 9/3/71 which is a great show, but Artie and his gang's near constant blabbering practically ruins it.

Now the third source for 6/10 on the other hand...now THOSE are some chatty motherfuckers! One of the guys almost sets himself on fire during NQ. :lol:

See, the third source where the guy sets himself on fire during "No Quarter" is the one I thought was Artie and his bunch. I listened to that recording once and into the bin it went. The second source for June 10 is incomplete as well but it's nice, closer to the stage than the main source. That main source- I'm pretty sure those same guys did the main source for June 13 as well. Maybe it is Artie, I'm not 100% certain.

As an aside, and I've said this before, but that's a damn good "No Quarter" they played on June 10 and not one of those tapers got it complete. The main source is most complete at 27 minutes but nevertheless has the cut near the end of JPJ's solo missing the transition into the Boogie Jam. Infuriating, for a "No Quarter" fanatic😆

49 minutes ago, tom kid said:

I can't remember if it's the same show or tapers (I'm sure Nutrocker can help me out on this one) but during NQ on one of the NY '77 shows you can hear the tapers giving a girl a hit off her first joint, which always makes me laugh. Imagine that, your first time high being at a '77 LZ show!

Now, that's Artie and his guys smoking that girl up during "No Quarter" on June 7th. I always thought it was hilarious that when they patched the soundboard recording's cut in that section they used Artie's tape instead of the superior "Rawhide" source probably just for all the pot talk😆

As I recall, though, once the chick's high she gets impatient and starts yelling "Come on!" every three seconds or so...

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On 7/31/2020 at 11:53 PM, Nutrocker said:

You'd think so, but it doesn't appear to be the case- both of his June 11 and 14th recordings crap out after "Kashmir". Like Strider said (and myself as well in the past), it's Led fucking Zeppelin, you KNOW they're gonna be doing at least three hours on a good night.

Still, of all the audience tapes available from the six MSG '77 shows, those two recordings are probably the best, followed by one of the June 10 alternate sources. The rest are pretty fair to middlin', unfortunately. Which, like I say, pains me whenever I listen to one of the Pink Floyd MSG '77 shows or Emerson, Lake and Palmer July 8 with the orchestra: "Goddamn, why couldn't these guys have taped at least one of the six Zeppelin shows as well?"

I guess we should be thankful for whatever tapes we have of Led Zeppelin...people put their lives on the line, so-to-speak, to record those tapes. But willful stupidity infuriates me.

All he had to do when he ran out of tape on June 11 is just start the tape on the 14th after the acoustic set.

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1 hour ago, Strider said:

I guess we should be thankful for whatever tapes we have of Led Zeppelin...people put their lives on the line, so-to-speak, to record those tapes. But willful stupidity infuriates me.

All he had to do when he ran out of tape on June 11 is just start the tape on the 14th after the acoustic set.

Even if he didn't, it would have been nice if somebody had taped the whole June 14th show...if memory serves that's the one without any encores because somebody lobbed a firecracker at the stage during or right after "Stairway".

And, yes, we should be thankful for the tapes we have. Doing the little "Freezer Flood" uploading some of his old recordings on Dime and Trader's Den recently has shown me that. He didn't give out everything he taped, far from it, but we should be lucky for what he did deign to give out over the years...bloody fantastic recordings.

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Posted (edited)

I just listened to the "third source" tape of June 10, 1977 MSG last night for the first time. It sounds like a killer show...a definite candidate for a Top 10 list of 1977.

Of course the yammering Noo Yawk yahoos nearly ruin it. I suppose in hindsight it makes for fun, goofy listening. Like Beavis & Butthead going to see a Led Zeppelin concert. But if I had been sitting next to those loudmouths I would have been having words with them...pipe down or else. I paid $9.75 to hear Robert Plant sing, not youse animals.

I hate that shit. There's always some bozo in every crowd. "Oh this is my favourite song! I love this song!" And then proceed to talk all the way through the song. It's fucking narcissism...look at me! Pay attention to me! I'm a party animal!

One or two songs I can put up with chit chat. But a whole concert? No no no no...no fucking way. I felt like Harvey Keitel in "Reservoir Dogs" listening to this tape.

At least these Noo Yawk squawkers got a little Karmic retribution. Some guy puked all over them and their shirts during Jimmy's noise solo. Now that was hilarious.

But I have a question for @Nutrocker or @tom kid or @ZepHead315 or any other tape experts...Is this "third source" Artie or not? Because if it is Artie then I don't think June 7 could be Artie. Too many comments made on this June 10 tape suggest this is the first time these guys have seen the band on the 1977 tour. Mistaking Jonesey's standup bass for a bailalaika (I'm winging it on the spelling), for example.

But then, even though a lot of New Yorkers sound alike to me, this "third source" is missing many of the usual Artie-isms. Not once do you hear "The best! Jimmy's the best!" like you do on previous Artie tapes. So if this was not Artie and his crew, who was it that taped this show? And how many other shows did they tape? Were they as widely known as Artie in the New York area?

Edited by Strider

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8 hours ago, Strider said:

I just listened to the "third source" tape of June 10, 1977 MSG last night for the first time. It sounds like a killer show...a definite candidate for a Top 10 list of 1977.

Of course the yammering Noo Yawk yahoos nearly ruin it. I suppose in hindsight it makes for fun, goofy listening. Like Beavis & Butthead going to see a Led Zeppelin concert. But if I had been sitting next to those loudmouths I would have been having words with them...pipe down or else. I paid $9.75 to hear Robert Plant sing, not youse animals.

I hate that shit. There's always some bozo in every crowd. "Oh this is my favourite song! I love this song!" And then proceed to talk all the way through the song. It's fucking narcissism...look at me! Pay attention to me! I'm a party animal!

One or two songs I can put up with chit chat. But a whole concert? No no no no...no fucking way. I felt like Harvey Keitel in "Reservoir Dogs" listening to this tape.

At least these Noo Yawk squawkers got a little Karmic retribution. Some guy puked all over them and their shirts during Jimmy's noise solo. Now that was hilarious.

But I have a question for @Nutrocker or @tom kid or @ZepHead315 or any other tape experts...Is this "third source" Artie or not? Because if it is Artie then I don't think June 7 could be Artie. Too many comments made on this June 10 tape suggest this is the first time these guys have seen the band on the 1977 tour. Mistaking Jonesey's standup bass for a bailalaika (I'm winging it on the spelling), for example.

But then, even though a lot of New Yorkers sound alike to me, this "third source" is missing many of the usual Artie-isms. Not once do you hear "The best! Jimmy's the best!" like you do on previous Artie tapes. So if this was not Artie and his crew, who was it that taped this show? And how many other shows did they tape? Were they as widely known as Artie in the New York area?

I think the most common June 10 source is the "Artie" recording. The other two June 10 sources seem to have been taped by 'unknowns'. But not one of them got a complete "No Quarter"...

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23 hours ago, Strider said:

I just listened to the "third source" tape of June 10, 1977 MSG last night for the first time. It sounds like a killer show...a definite candidate for a Top 10 list of 1977.

Of course the yammering Noo Yawk yahoos nearly ruin it. I suppose in hindsight it makes for fun, goofy listening. Like Beavis & Butthead going to see a Led Zeppelin concert. But if I had been sitting next to those loudmouths I would have been having words with them...pipe down or else. I paid $9.75 to hear Robert Plant sing, not youse animals.

I hate that shit. There's always some bozo in every crowd. "Oh this is my favourite song! I love this song!" And then proceed to talk all the way through the song. It's fucking narcissism...look at me! Pay attention to me! I'm a party animal!

One or two songs I can put up with chit chat. But a whole concert? No no no no...no fucking way. I felt like Harvey Keitel in "Reservoir Dogs" listening to this tape.

At least these Noo Yawk squawkers got a little Karmic retribution. Some guy puked all over them and their shirts during Jimmy's noise solo. Now that was hilarious.

But I have a question for @Nutrocker or @tom kid or @ZepHead315 or any other tape experts...Is this "third source" Artie or not? Because if it is Artie then I don't think June 7 could be Artie. Too many comments made on this June 10 tape suggest this is the first time these guys have seen the band on the 1977 tour. Mistaking Jonesey's standup bass for a bailalaika (I'm winging it on the spelling), for example.

But then, even though a lot of New Yorkers sound alike to me, this "third source" is missing many of the usual Artie-isms. Not once do you hear "The best! Jimmy's the best!" like you do on previous Artie tapes. So if this was not Artie and his crew, who was it that taped this show? And how many other shows did they tape? Were they as widely known as Artie in the New York area?

The third source of 6/10 is not Artie and his gang. Not sure who those other guys are. Artie did indeed tape 6/10, but his is the more common "Rock n Roll Circus" source I believe. Artie also taped the June 7th show, but his is inferior to the main source so it's less commonly heard. Interestingly, Artie's pretty damn chatty at shows like 6/7 or 2/3/75, yet at 6/10 and 6/13 (which is the main source for that show), he's relatively quiet. Must have been sober and/or didn't have his usual pals around.

I'm planning on eventually redoing my merge of the June 10th show using the 2nd source (which is the least complete but IMHO has the best sound) as a basis. My first merge of that show has some cuts that I neglected to fill in.:slapface:

It's a damn good show. Probably my favorite of all the MSG 77 shows.

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9 hours ago, ZepHead315 said:

The third source of 6/10 is not Artie and his gang. Not sure who those other guys are. Artie did indeed tape 6/10, but his is the more common "Rock n Roll Circus" source I believe. Artie also taped the June 7th show, but his is inferior to the main source so it's less commonly heard. Interestingly, Artie's pretty damn chatty at shows like 6/7 or 2/3/75, yet at 6/10 and 6/13 (which is the main source for that show), he's relatively quiet. Must have been sober and/or didn't have his usual pals around.

I'm planning on eventually redoing my merge of the June 10th show using the 2nd source (which is the least complete but IMHO has the best sound) as a basis. My first merge of that show has some cuts that I neglected to fill in.:slapface:

It's a damn good show. Probably my favorite of all the MSG 77 shows.

Yes- I constantly have to flip a coin over whether June 10th or 11th is my favourite of the MSG '77 shows...I did a June 10 mix using Source 2 as the basis with source 1 filling in the gaps as well, sounds pretty good. The third source is pretty much useless for anything, simply based on how chopped up the tape is and the annoying tapers.

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Some great reviews. I concur with all your picks. Birmingham the 18th has always been a fav of mine....I first heard it back in the early 90’s. Then that silent footage showed up ......and it just made me appreciate the gig even more.

 

Sorry about your dog. Cheers ✌️

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3 hours ago, ohjimmy said:

Some great reviews. I concur with all your picks. Birmingham the 18th has always been a fav of mine....I first heard it back in the early 90’s. Then that silent footage showed up ......and it just made me appreciate the gig even more.

 

Sorry about your dog. Cheers ✌️

Thanks man 😊 It was a strange day to listen to a show with "Bron-Y-Aur Stomp" in it, that's for sure.  Birmingham is certainly a good show, and a comparatively concise one, which makes it a nice choice if you don't have as much time or are recommending to someone with a shorter attention span lol.

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I posted my story of the Tempe concert somewhere in the webz, maybe here, maybe elsewhere.

I was at the Tempe show. Any junior high garage band could have eaten their lunch that night. I'm a professional, I couldn't and wouldn't ever get away with the abject failure and fraud like LZ committed in Tempe.  I demand either a sincere apology and refund or a redo free concert in Arizona, sober.

Edited by 70sGhost
Clarity

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15 hours ago, 70sGhost said:

I posted my story of the Tempe concert somewhere in the webz, maybe here, maybe elsewhere.

I was at the Tempe show. Any junior high garage band could have eaten their lunch that night. I'm a professional, I couldn't and wouldn't ever get away with the abject failure and fraud like LZ committed in Tempe.  I demand either a sincere apology and refund or a redo free concert in Arizona, sober.

Are you the infamous Ed Ortiz, perchance, who's Tempe review made Dave Lewis' Concert Files book?

Edited by Nutrocker

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On 9/29/2020 at 6:53 AM, 70sGhost said:

I posted my story of the Tempe concert somewhere in the webz, maybe here, maybe elsewhere.

I was at the Tempe show. Any junior high garage band could have eaten their lunch that night. I'm a professional, I couldn't and wouldn't ever get away with the abject failure and fraud like LZ committed in Tempe.  I demand either a sincere apology and refund or a redo free concert in Arizona, sober.

Do you remember Page almost getting blown up by the pyrotechnics which caused the show to go downhill? The source I have for this show (very incomplete) has Zeppelin sounding ok (about Seattle level) up until the beginning of ALS when Jimmy is almost blown up by a flash-pot which F-ed him up for the remainder of the show. I can't exactly blame Zep 100% when their guitarist is almost made into a human Roman Candle.

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Yeah...for the umpteenth time, even based on that mediocre incomplete audience tape Tempe isn't that bad- the only real cock ups are Plant's voice being fucked during the acoustic set (forcing him to drop all the high parts an octave which sounds really bad) and Page being way off on "Achilles Last Stand". That said, the band themselves knew it was an off night in front of a crazy, Louisville-type audience, hence the lack of encores- Zeppelin just wanted to get the fuck outta Dodge after that gig, and you can't blame them.

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For the life of me I'll never understand why they didn't restart Achilles. 

Perhaps you're onto something and they just wanted to get the hell out of there so plowed on with it.

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9 hours ago, tom kid said:

For the life of me I'll never understand why they didn't restart Achilles. 

Perhaps you're onto something and they just wanted to get the hell out of there so plowed on with it.

The Phoenix area has always been notorious as a shitty place to play, especially up to the 1980's. They had shitty venues until they started building real ones in the 90's and the audience was your typical out of control troublemakers. Things got much better in the 90's with new venues and security that would toss you out as soon as look at you. Once they got serious that music was a business, the situation improved dramatically. This is why Phx was considered a secondary market for concerts until the 90's.

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On 8/16/2020 at 12:11 AM, Bonzo_fan said:

Thanks man 😊 It was a strange day to listen to a show with "Bron-Y-Aur Stomp" in it, that's for sure.  Birmingham is certainly a good show, and a comparatively concise one, which makes it a nice choice if you don't have as much time or are recommending to someone with a shorter attention span lol.

Hey man I just starting listening to your Zeppelin podcasts on Spotify. They are great! Going to start digging my way through them.  Cheers! 

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17 minutes ago, ohjimmy said:

Hey man I just starting listening to your Zeppelin podcasts on Spotify. They are great! Going to start digging my way through them.  Cheers! 

Thank you, I really appreciate it!  Glad you're enjoying them so far!

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