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porgie66

Jason Bonham refutes Jeff Ocheltree

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Posted (edited)

This affirms what I have suspected for a long time. Not sure about the stick auction,  but Jeff Ocheltree's specious claims are finally addressed in this post by Jason today. I've never seen Jason interact so much with his followers comments as he did here. Clearly he has had enough, but,  I was actually surprised he didn't do this earlier. 

My main question now is, was Hinton his tech onstage in 77, Knebworth and Europe '80? I thought he wasn't in the later years. 

Edited by porgie66

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Long overdue. And in that auction he's referring to, the description says that the photos of the drum sticks are not the ones being offered for sale. wtf?  They show a photo of legit Bonzo sticks, but you can't see what they're actually selling. Fake ass shit should be pulled.

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, zeplz71 said:

Long overdue. And in that auction he's referring to, the description says that the photos of the drum sticks are not the ones being offered for sale. wtf?  They show a photo of legit Bonzo sticks, but you can't see what they're actually selling. Fake ass shit should be pulled.

 "the maplewood drumsticks...are embossed hickory....".  🙄 GTFOH

Edited by porgie66

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Posted (edited)

I have copies of John Vogel's SHOWCO 1977 three leg itineraries, and Jeff is not listed anywhere that I can find.  Mick Hinton is listed.  After all of these years I thought Jeff would at least provide some proof that he worked for John and traveled with the road crew.  Even an image would be beneficial, but I have never seen an image of Jeff on the road in '77 with Zeppelin and the SHOWCO road crew.

What's more alarming is the fact that the auction house does not have images of the actual sticks up for auction.  With an opening bid of $7,000 one would think images of the actual sticks for auction would be utilized.

First the green sparkle kit, now these sticks.

Thank you for creating this thread.

Robert

www.anextranickel.com

Edited by Sems Fir
correct typo

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Thanks for sharing Jason's Instagram post. I've contacted the auction and asked them for comment on Jason's post - will see if they respond to him.

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8 hours ago, zeplz71 said:

Long overdue. And in that auction he's referring to, the description says that the photos of the drum sticks are not the ones being offered for sale. wtf?  They show a photo of legit Bonzo sticks, but you can't see what they're actually selling. Fake ass shit should be pulled.

I think the auction site is referring to the final photograph in the listing of Bonham on stage - they're clarifying that he's not shown playing with the sticks up for auction in that photograph.

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I remembered Steve Jander posting at The Hotel years ago regarding Mick Hinton.  The thread is titled: "Was Mick Hinton a mean drummer/tight with Bonham?".  Here was Steve's reply: 

"Mick was mostly Bonzo's close friend and confidant. He knew how to set up, repair and tune drums but I never heard him play drums once (except for whacking on each drum during "sound check" to set levels). One of the guys on the Showco lighting crew, Gary C. was (is) a badass drummer and would occasionally sit down at Bonzo's kit and wail during the afternoon setup. I don't think the band picked their personal assistants for their musical abilities".

Steve did not mention Jeff's name at all in this response.

Robert

www.anextranickel.com

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Here's the full response from the auction website to Jason Bonham's Instagram post:

Quote

A few things. First, we know Jeff Ocheltree knew John Bonham. There are videos with thousands of views where Jeff is speaking about his relationship with John Bonham and saying he was John’s Tech and even went on tour with Led Zeppelin, this is right from Jeff’s mouth and can be viewed in this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmXy-ksqlq8). Jeff states he met John through Billy Cobham even Jason confirmed this. I am attaching a screenshot of Jason posting this. Jeff Ocheltree is talked about in many forums and articles. Nobody is questioning that Jeff Ocheltree was friends with John Bonham. Maybe Jeff filled in a few times when John needed help, but this would still make him John’s tech. Jeff knew John there is no question to that, and because of that he had many opportunities to get these drumsticks. Nobody is questioning the authenticity of the drumsticks, they are questioning whether Jeff Ocheltree was John Bonham’s drum tech. Most importantly, the sticks are consistent with known authentic examples of Drumsticks from the period, with the same wood, weight and labels. They have an excellent provenance coming from Jeff Ocheltree. Gottahaverockandroll  

He attached a screenshot of one of Jason's Instagram comment on his recent post which reads: "Dad did meet him and invited him to a show at the Forum 77 ( I was told Jeff worked with Billy Cobham and Dad loved Billy"

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Robert Plant's "Plantations" from the final LA Forum show, June 27, 1977, right before "Whole Lotta Love:

http://www.ledzeppelin-reference.com/geekbaseweb/Speechpage.aspx?Showid=524

Thank you very much LA. It's been ah, quite an amazing week. Good night, and see you again one day. Now you know the truth. Before we continue we'd like to thank you for being ah, a great audience. Sincerely, no bull shit. A bunch of geriatrics like us, it's reallu hard work, you know? We'd also like to thank ah, all the members of the cast. The full supporting cast has been ah, oh excuse me. The sound and lighting crew, Showco, very good sound system as you heard. Every night it's no good in the acoustic set, but the rest of it is great. Benji Lefevre from England who does all the funny noises, Ray Thomas from Scotland who can't tune guitars. Mick Hinton who was a bus conductor in Cambridge who can't tune drums, Brian who's covered in 7up and all the people in the wings there who've been making rude gestures for the last six days, and most of all the badgeholders of California.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Cookie0024 said:

I think the auction site is referring to the final photograph in the listing of Bonham on stage - they're clarifying that he's not shown playing with the sticks up for auction in that photograph.

Fair enough, but the wording is terrible... as it makes most people think the photo of the sticks shown with the listing isn't the same as what they are actually selling. You have to click on the photo to expand which then reveals the other photos , including the one of Bonzo.  If you don't , you just see one photo, at least on my browser. I don't doubt those are Bonzo's sticks actually, because they do look authentic. The questions looming around Jeff Ocheltree's relationship with Bonzo though are very concerning.  Clearly he has a long and very respected career as a tech for people like Billy Cobham, Mike Clark, Santana ( Cindy Blackman) Vinnie Coliauta and many others.

Maybe Jeff did work for Bonham on a few occasions from '77 to 80,  most likely not earlier based on his statements. Jeff claims that they met while he was working at a show Billy Cobham did in June 1975 at the Crystal Palace in London. Maybe they hit it off and Jeff was invited by Bonzo to assist in tech duties at Musicland for the recording of Presence later that year.  However, Jason claims that they met in LA in 1977.   

Maybe Jeff teched for some gigs in the US in 77... and maybe he was at Polar studios and Knebworth too, but as Jason said, no one in the camp that he talked to remembered him, including Cole.  Mick Hinton so far as I know, never mentioned him in any public statements. Also, it's odd that Jeff wouldn't go into more detail about his role with Bonham, where and when he was working as a tech, any other references, stories, or pictures...nothing. I've never heard him say in a video that he was at Musicland or Polar studios, but he does go into detail about the mics used to record Bonzo in the studio. Who knows how accurate that info is. 

The most questionable claims about Bonzo's drums come right at the beginning of his DVD ...where he says " I'm standing next to a 1971 green sparkle John Bonham drumkit....and these drums were used, on many sessions".  ?????  Those are not likely Bonzo's drums, by all counts his green sparkle kits are in the possession of the Bonham estate, with an exception being a rumor of a private collector owning one. If he simply put together his own version of Bonham's kit , he should have said "  this is a John Bonham style drumkit" or something similar.  Otherwise, he should have said more about the kits provenance in the video. Any drum fanatic knows, you'd want more of that type of info about a legendary drummers kit!! He makes good overall points about tuning, sound etc...but he also makes some little inaccurate statements about Bonzo's set -up, drum heads, etc. which are odd if he was truly his tech. 

All that being said, it is possible that Jeff was an acquaintance that may have done some itinerant work for Bonzo in the late 70's , because he was clearly a very experienced drum tech .... but Jason's statement seems to really refute that claim. Too bad we can't ask Mick Hinton.  Does anyone here know if Hinton worked for Bonham in 1980 in Europe?  If not, who was his tech??  

Edited by porgie66

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37 minutes ago, porgie66 said:

Too bad we can't ask Mick Hinton

Is he still alive?

 

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2 minutes ago, Bozoso73 said:

Is he still alive?

 

No, he passed in 2007. He was on the Forum a bit though. 

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You'd think that John Bonham bringing in a new "tech" in 1975 / 1977 would be a big deal?  LMAO   The stories seem to change through the years. I've read LA 77 and 1975 somewhere else. 100% of the tales of him supposedly being involved with Bonzo are only from Jeff himself. Never been any corroborating evidence and as mentioned, Jason has asked around the Zep circles, yet nobody ever heard of him. 

Here's something posted on the site:

1975-road-crew-magazine.jpg.6b07c5333a56

 

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Maybe Sam or Steven A Jones would know who Bonzo's tech was for Europe 80 tour, if not Hinton. 

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10 hours ago, porgie66 said:

Maybe Sam or Steven A Jones would know who Bonzo's tech was for Europe 80 tour, if not Hinton. 

It was Mick Hinton on the Europe 80 tour. ( per Dave Lewis book "Feather In The Wind --Over Europe 80 )

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13 hours ago, dave2007 said:

It was Mick Hinton on the Europe 80 tour. ( per Dave Lewis book "Feather In The Wind --Over Europe 80 )

Thanks, and I have that book!! 🙄

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In my line of work I occasionally have to deal with memorabilia scams. There are so many out there that you literally need an army of lawyers to track every single one down.

Good on Jason for spotting this fraud.

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18 hours ago, Strider said:

In my line of work I occasionally have to deal with memorabilia scams. There are so many out there that you literally need an army of lawyers to track every single one down.

Good on Jason for spotting this fraud.

I read where over 80% of the sports memorabilia items out there on the market are fraudulent. 

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Not supporting Ocheltree unquestioningly for a second, but he is interviewed ref: the '77 tour in Barney Hoskyns' "Trampled Underfoot: Oral History of Led Zeppelin". Barney is not a hack like certain Zep biographers, and to put quotes from Ocheltree in the book, there must have been some connection between him and the band surely? The question is, what?

FWIW, he's credited on the "cast of characters" intro page as "drum tech who advised & assisted Bonham on 1977 tour". Not stirring, just saying that's how he's described. Maybe the auctioneers ought to contact Barney for clarification!

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Posted (edited)

There's only one reference in the book:   JEFF OCHELTREE (drum tech who assisted Bonham on 1977 US tour) Mick made £45 a week working for Zeppelin at the beginning. He just kept doing the same things, taking drugs and never really developing as a drum tech. That’s why they treated him as a class clown and dressed him up as a butler.

After an interview for that book, this was the only worthwhile quote?  He has no first hand knowledge and what a jerk to even say this. Notice his credit --  Jeff was a "drum tech" who happened to "assist" Bonzo in 1977 in some vague way. B.S.  As usual, no details and it's no longer "toured with Zeppelin" like previously claimed, nothing on recording Presence, ITTOD, Knebworth, 1980 tour.  But somehow he's qualified to be making instructional videos and interviews on the green sparkle kit or recording in the studio for their last two albums,  yeah right.

The response from the auction to Cookie above ---

"we know Jeff Ocheltree knew John Bonham"....  And how do you know this? Because Jeff says so?

"Jeff knew John there is no question to that,"  Well yes, there is BIG question to that claim.

"he was John’s Tech and even went on tour with Led Zeppelin, this is right from Jeff’s mouth"... This is a false claim

Regarding the auction,  "They have an excellent provenance coming from Jeff Ocheltree. "   Literally have the Bonham family (through Jason) completely refuting this guy so....

Edited by zeplz71

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14 hours ago, zeplz71 said:

There's only one reference in the book:   JEFF OCHELTREE (drum tech who assisted Bonham on 1977 US tour) Mick made £45 a week working for Zeppelin at the beginning. He just kept doing the same things, taking drugs and never really developing as a drum tech. That’s why they treated him as a class clown and dressed him up as a butler.

After an interview for that book, this was the only worthwhile quote?  He has no first hand knowledge and what a jerk to even say this. Notice his credit --  Jeff was a "drum tech" who happened to "assist" Bonzo in 1977 in some vague way. B.S.  As usual, no details and it's no longer "toured with Zeppelin" like previously claimed, nothing on recording Presence, ITTOD, Knebworth, 1980 tour.  But somehow he's qualified to be making instructional videos and interviews on the green sparkle kit or recording in the studio for their last two albums,  yeah right.

The response from the auction to Cookie above ---

"we know Jeff Ocheltree knew John Bonham"....  And how do you know this? Because Jeff says so?

"Jeff knew John there is no question to that,"  Well yes, there is BIG question to that claim.

"he was John’s Tech and even went on tour with Led Zeppelin, this is right from Jeff’s mouth"... This is a false claim

Regarding the auction,  "They have an excellent provenance coming from Jeff Ocheltree. "   Literally have the Bonham family (through Jason) completely refuting this guy so....

Yes, agreed there are way too many holes in his story but , it is possible he worked for Bonzo in a limited capacity . The guy has a serious history of working for many top class drummers, and that is beyond refute. He was Billy Cobham's tech and even Jason acknowledged they met. Maybe he and Bonzo hit it off, as he claims and Bonzo may have brought him on to do some work along side Hinton. In which case it's very likely he would have had a chance to grab some worthless broken sticks after a gig. Those sticks look like the real deal. The provenance is a problem though. 

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On 7/29/2020 at 12:11 PM, Cookie0024 said:

Thanks for sharing Jason's Instagram post. I've contacted the auction and asked them for comment on Jason's post - will see if they respond to him.

Did the seller say the sticks in the photos are the actual one's the buyer would receive?  Also wondering who this seller is and how they acquired them? Is it Ocheltree himself, or someone he knows selling on his behalf? 🤔 

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2 hours ago, porgie66 said:

Yes, agreed there are way too many holes in his story but , it is possible he worked for Bonzo in a limited capacity . The guy has a serious history of working for many top class drummers, and that is beyond refute. He was Billy Cobham's tech and even Jason acknowledged they met. 

Jason's comment was "he was told" that his dad met him, once again stories that originated from Jeff so that's not proof. 
Anyway, looks the sticks didn't sell.

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