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On 4/1/2021 at 9:08 AM, RainbowElf said:

Here in Jersey they're kind of new, they're either named Connoco or 76, but mostly that I've seen they're named simply Connoco.

Also Phillips 66 all the same company and gas just three different names.

@kipper

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33 minutes ago, kipper said:

 

Yep, this all falls under the "perfect world" BS. Personally, I cannot stand the police, I have never had a semi-positive encounter with a cop even though I am always polite. Nor do I believe respect is automatically granted anyone, respect must be earned. All of that aside, it is not a perfect world and if the guy / gal cop with a gun, jackass or not, will be given my utmost respect as I bite my lip. Of course lets fight and work to change these attitude's but until then, unless you wish to risk death, just be polite and do what you are told (within reason of course). It sucks but its reality and it sure beats getting shot. Principals mean nothing if you're dead.

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34 minutes ago, BobDobbs said:

Yep, this all falls under the "perfect world" BS. Personally, I cannot stand the police, I have never had a semi-positive encounter with a cop even though I am always polite. Nor do I believe respect is automatically granted anyone, respect must be earned. All of that aside, it is not a perfect world and if the guy / gal cop with a gun, jackass or not, will be given my utmost respect as I bite my lip. Of course lets fight and work to change these attitude's but until then, unless you wish to risk death, just be polite and do what you are told (within reason of course). It sucks but its reality and it sure beats getting shot. Principals mean nothing if you're dead.

Not all cops are the same and many can be assholes. I just understand what their job is, what kind of people are attracted to a job like that, and then after that consider what I can do to not "take the bait" and just play along. Not saying I waive my rights or anything. But just like some passive aggressive airline worker, or a store clerk armed with a "policy" or other means to ruin your whole day, I just play it smart and don't give them any ammunition.  Arguing with cops will NEVER work in your favor on the side of the road. Courts are for settling legal disputes.  You act foolish in front of cop, and they'll just call more cops, and then exercise the things they are legally allowed to do to FORCE you to comply.   Cops can pretty much make up just about any reason to DETAIN you (not arrest but detain), and then if you screw up and give them a reason to arrest you by actively resisting or acting aggressive--- even if you aren't charged and brought to trial, you still end up in jail, still need to get a lawyer, and still need to post bond. Sometimes a "yes sir, no sir" and sign the ticket is the better part of valor, and the cheapest economically.

Fact is Bob, some fools just attract police like flies. If you drive a car, make sure all the brake lights work. If you have a political viewpoint, don't paste it on your window for everyone to know. Because not only may it piss of a cop, some other asshole will key your car door who doesn't like your views.

 

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15 hours ago, kipper said:

Not all cops are the same and many can be assholes. I just understand what their job is, what kind of people are attracted to a job like that, and then after that consider what I can do to not "take the bait" and just play along. Not saying I waive my rights or anything. But just like some passive aggressive airline worker, or a store clerk armed with a "policy" or other means to ruin your whole day, I just play it smart and don't give them any ammunition.  Arguing with cops will NEVER work in your favor on the side of the road. Courts are for settling legal disputes.  You act foolish in front of cop, and they'll just call more cops, and then exercise the things they are legally allowed to do to FORCE you to comply.   Cops can pretty much make up just about any reason to DETAIN you (not arrest but detain), and then if you screw up and give them a reason to arrest you by actively resisting or acting aggressive--- even if you aren't charged and brought to trial, you still end up in jail, still need to get a lawyer, and still need to post bond. Sometimes a "yes sir, no sir" and sign the ticket is the better part of valor, and the cheapest economically.

Fact is Bob, some fools just attract police like flies. If you drive a car, make sure all the brake lights work. If you have a political viewpoint, don't paste it on your window for everyone to know. Because not only may it piss of a cop, some other asshole will key your car door who doesn't like your views.

 

You’re a very wise man Kipper, I support the blue line.

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This gave me a chuckle, is it true..

Americans be like “motherf**cker” this “mother f**cker” that all day long but lay one “cu*t” on ‘em and it’s 1775 all over again

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On 4/17/2021 at 9:22 PM, cryingbluerain said:

A view shared by criminals and troublemakers everywhere.

or by people who have been harassed for no reason repeatedly. Then again some people have no problem at all with others who abuse their power and deny law abiding citizens their rights. I have never broken any law outside of speeding and the last time I was legitimately pulled over by a cop was in 1991 for going 65 in a 55. Now from 1992 - 1999 when I had long hair I was CONSTSTNLY pulled over by the cops, had my vehicle searched while I was handcuffed on the side of the road and the cops making cheeky comments while searching my vehicle. The whole time I was polite and accommodating. I have been tackled by cops when I was in HS because I fit the description of a local drug dealer and as the cops told me after they checked my id and saw I was not the guy, "well, we are in out 40's and can't run like we used to so, too bad."

It sounds like you never had these issues and good for you Crying, but just because a cop hassles someone does not make them guilty. I guess you failed your classes on government and the rule of law however such courses are available both on-line and at your local community college.

 

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  • 4 weeks later...

Gin Sake.

Buck, you're weak and feeble.
Grab some balls and right the fucking ship.

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On 4/19/2021 at 8:45 AM, BobDobbs said:

or by people who have been harassed for no reason repeatedly. Then again some people have no problem at all with others who abuse their power and deny law abiding citizens their rights. I have never broken any law outside of speeding and the last time I was legitimately pulled over by a cop was in 1991 for going 65 in a 55. Now from 1992 - 1999 when I had long hair I was CONSTSTNLY pulled over by the cops, had my vehicle searched while I was handcuffed on the side of the road and the cops making cheeky comments while searching my vehicle. The whole time I was polite and accommodating. I have been tackled by cops when I was in HS because I fit the description of a local drug dealer and as the cops told me after they checked my id and saw I was not the guy, "well, we are in out 40's and can't run like we used to so, too bad."

It sounds like you never had these issues and good for you Crying, but just because a cop hassles someone does not make them guilty. I guess you failed your classes on government and the rule of law however such courses are available both on-line and at your local community college.

 

When the shit hits the fan the 'defunders' are the first to call the men in blue. 😆

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11 hours ago, redrum said:

When the shit hits the fan the 'defunders' are the first to call the men in blue. 😆

That was really bad marketing, calling for defunding the police as the majority did not want defunding but rather a more equitable re-distribution of funding to areas which need it. Yes, there are some loonies who just want all cops gone but those are silly, stupid people. You don't throw out the baby with the bathwater, just because your car breaks down does not mean its time to start it on fire. The fish may rot from the head but the house cannot stand on a poor foundation. It all comes down to training and better psychological screenings for cadets. I think the police forces should not be defunded, instead all of that sweet military equipment they don't need and serve no purpose should be sold off and the proceeds used for better, longer, and more comprehensive training, especially in hand to hand combat which currently is a two hour course in Police Academy, that's it. You teach these cadets how to really handle themselves instead of using a gun and they will be more confident and as a result be less apt to go from a 1 to an 11 at the slightest sign of anything off or the citizen not being 100% respectful. Bring back community policing where the cops patrol the neighborhoods they live in. Cops know the people and the neighborhood, the people know the cops. When the cop who pulls you over knows you, he / she is less likely to get jumpy or cocky and vice versa.

The solutions are there and they are actually very easy to implement, they just won't do it. I don't know why as both logically and economically it makes sense. Just think about the hundreds of millions paid out each year by police departments to settle police brutality or unwarranted killings, and police misconduct claims which would be saved.

You know, even though I hate most cops and have had nothing but bad experiences with them I am still respectful because I know its a hard job, and it can be a real shit-job. I always hope my next interaction will be with a good cop and one day it may be but the fact is, asking the people who are paid with our tax dollars, who swore an oath to protect the citizenry, to also be well versed and knowledgeable about the laws they are charged to enforce and to not violate peoples basic constitutional rights is not really a big ask. That is actually the bare minimum starting point. Then, how about not hiring a bunch of juiced up whackos with anger management and control issues would be good too.

The bar for admittance has been dropped so low that the police forces will accept just about anyone these days. Gang tats on two sleeves, your neck and a teardrop too? Well, since you said you are no longer IN the gang...OK, you're hired! I remember when a major requisite of being a cop was to not have active affiliation in any group or organization which may compromise your position as an officer, plus, even former affiliation in a gang or subversive group would automatically disqualify you, and they checked you out for that shit bigtime back in the day. Now, the question is not even asked.

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On 4/19/2021 at 8:45 AM, BobDobbs said:

or by people who have been harassed for no reason repeatedly. Then again some people have no problem at all with others who abuse their power and deny law abiding citizens their rights. I have never broken any law outside of speeding and the last time I was legitimately pulled over by a cop was in 1991 for going 65 in a 55. Now from 1992 - 1999 when I had long hair I was CONSTSTNLY pulled over by the cops, had my vehicle searched while I was handcuffed on the side of the road and the cops making cheeky comments while searching my vehicle. The whole time I was polite and accommodating. I have been tackled by cops when I was in HS because I fit the description of a local drug dealer and as the cops told me after they checked my id and saw I was not the guy, "well, we are in out 40's and can't run like we used to so, too bad."

It sounds like you never had these issues and good for you Crying, but just because a cop hassles someone does not make them guilty. I guess you failed your classes on government and the rule of law however such courses are available both on-line and at your local community college.

 

Cops do what cops do. They INVESTIGATE. I never took that personally. Not even when I had long hair, was driving a beat up car, was out late at night looking for trouble anyway. They just do what they do. I don't think profiling is bad. I think it makes sense. How many 80 year old Norwegian grandmas are out breaking the law?  How many long haired teenage roustabouts are possibly up to trouble? 

Like that.

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I think we all owe SAJ an apology for not all believing his theory about the Wuhan Kung Flu virus.

Seems that China did make this thing in a lab after all.

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22 hours ago, kipper said:

I think we all owe SAJ an apology for not all believing his theory about the Wuhan Kung Flu virus.

Seems that China did make this thing in a lab after all.

Apology for what exactly? are you in possession of facts no one else is? This is all speculation, no one at this point knows the origin of COVID-19 and we need to investigate it. Could it be mad-made? Sure. Could it have simply jumped species? Yes indeed. They simply do not know.

How about if we all put our big-people pants on, act like adults and investigate, gather evidence, and come to an educated, provable conclusion instead of playing "Um, deeer, lerp. Me thinks virus come from Chinese lab. Me smart. You dumb. My opinion mean true. Deeeerp." 

Jesus Christ it seems society has devolved to gym class in 7th grade. Whatever happened to facts and evidence before conclusions are drawn?

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1 hour ago, BobDobbs said:

Apology for what exactly? are you in possession of facts no one else is? This is all speculation, no one at this point knows the origin of COVID-19 and we need to investigate it. Could it be mad-made? Sure. Could it have simply jumped species? Yes indeed. They simply do not know.

How about if we all put our big-people pants on, act like adults and investigate, gather evidence, and come to an educated, provable conclusion instead of playing "Um, deeer, lerp. Me thinks virus come from Chinese lab. Me smart. You dumb. My opinion mean true. Deeeerp." 

Jesus Christ it seems society has devolved to gym class in 7th grade. Whatever happened to facts and evidence before conclusions are drawn?

At some point the weight of suspicion tends to point to guilt.  China at some level seemed to suggest it may have been some species jump that happened at a "wet market", and for a short time the Chinese government put some restrictions on wet markets, but never actually closed them. And BTW, how convenient to have a virology lab close enough to a wet market that you could spit on it.  What a convenient cover if something slipped out.

Then add to that the lies to the WHO; the lies to the rest of the world, and they way the commies threatened their own scientists, including news people and other in Hong Kong.

Sorry, but that all points to a BIG GUILTY SIGN on China.  Innocent people do not act like this over what they could claim might be an accident.  Why is China lying and hiding so much?

If someone was a police detective investigating a murder of a woman and her husband was acting this guilty, the investigators would never move on to investigate any on other lead.  China is a horrible regime currently involved in genocide, why shouldn't we assume they may be guilty of this too?  China is every bit as bad as the 3rd Reich in their diabolical plans to control the world.

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12 hours ago, kipper said:

At some point the weight of suspicion tends to point to guilt.  China at some level seemed to suggest it may have been some species jump that happened at a "wet market", and for a short time the Chinese government put some restrictions on wet markets, but never actually closed them. And BTW, how convenient to have a virology lab close enough to a wet market that you could spit on it.  What a convenient cover if something slipped out.

Then add to that the lies to the WHO; the lies to the rest of the world, and they way the commies threatened their own scientists, including news people and other in Hong Kong.

Sorry, but that all points to a BIG GUILTY SIGN on China.  Innocent people do not act like this over what they could claim might be an accident.  Why is China lying and hiding so much?

If someone was a police detective investigating a murder of a woman and her husband was acting this guilty, the investigators would never move on to investigate any on other lead.  China is a horrible regime currently involved in genocide, why shouldn't we assume they may be guilty of this too?  China is every bit as bad as the 3rd Reich in their diabolical plans to control the world.

I know, I am a whacky guy, I need facts, not speculation based on possibilities. This means zero, nothing without facts. I shall wait for the facts as that is what thinking, rational humans tend to do.

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33 minutes ago, BobDobbs said:

I know, I am a whacky guy, I need facts, not speculation based on possibilities. This means zero, nothing without facts. I shall wait for the facts as that is what thinking, rational humans tend to do.

Do you at least have a 'reasonable suspicion' that the Red Chinese government is coving up something they did wrong? And then beyond that not providing any REASONABLE explanation why they forcefully silenced their own scientists and people who were coving the story?

What I am describing is a "guilty mind" which is SUSPECTED at being culpable of some malfeasance.  Of course we need more proof, but that should not dissuade the global community from not only demanding answers, or pressing the Chinese HARD for those facts.... no matter how embarrassing they may be.

But China's problem now is that they will NOT likely willing change their story to the truth--- even if the truth was an accident. Because that is not in the Red Chinese mindset to be open; not to the world or their own people. China is NOT Britain, Canada, Japan, Italy, or any other number of nations who would for the SAKE of global health and/or avoidance of future pandemics be honest to the rest of the world.

THEREFORE we ought to treat China as a CRIMINAL SUSPECT would be treated until such facts either clear them of wrongdoing, or convict them of wrongdoing. And we should do this because China had been anything BUT open and helpful in this pandemic.

Come on man, how is it even possible that China with over a BILLION people can be claiming only 91,000 cases of covid? Something like 98th on the list of affected nations. China is basically claiming fewer covid infections than Bahrain, Panama, and Finland.... those lying commie bastards! 

Treat them as GUILTY until they come clean with some truth. Because "the facts" which they have provided are all bullshit! 

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Come on man, how is it even possible that China with over a BILLION people can be claiming only 91,000 cases of covid? Something like 98th on the list of affected nations. China is basically claiming fewer covid infections than Bahrain, Panama, and Finland.... those lying commie bastards! 

And less than 5,000 dead. 😆

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12 hours ago, BobDobbs said:

I know, I am a whacky guy, I need facts, not speculation based on possibilities. This means zero, nothing without facts. I shall wait for the facts as that is what thinking, rational humans tend to do.

Seems to be some interesting facts in this piece...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbipxAR9Y4k

*This is NOT a political comment, and I have not verified the content. I realise some of you think Tapper/CNN is left wing bullshit, equally, some will not trust the guest as he is a Republican Senator from Texas. I don't give a fuck, I'm interested in the conversation.

11 hours ago, kipper said:

Do you at least have a 'reasonable suspicion' that the Red Chinese government is coving up something they did wrong? And then beyond that not providing any REASONABLE explanation why they forcefully silenced their own scientists and people who were coving the story?

What I am describing is a "guilty mind" which is SUSPECTED at being culpable of some malfeasance.  Of course we need more proof, but that should not dissuade the global community from not only demanding answers, or pressing the Chinese HARD for those facts.... no matter how embarrassing they may be.

But China's problem now is that they will NOT likely willing change their story to the truth--- even if the truth was an accident. Because that is not in the Red Chinese mindset to be open; not to the world or their own people. China is NOT Britain, Canada, Japan, Italy, or any other number of nations who would for the SAKE of global health and/or avoidance of future pandemics be honest to the rest of the world.

THEREFORE we ought to treat China as a CRIMINAL SUSPECT would be treated until such facts either clear them of wrongdoing, or convict them of wrongdoing. And we should do this because China had been anything BUT open and helpful in this pandemic.

Come on man, how is it even possible that China with over a BILLION people can be claiming only 91,000 cases of covid? Something like 98th on the list of affected nations. China is basically claiming fewer covid infections than Bahrain, Panama, and Finland.... those lying commie bastards! 

Treat them as GUILTY until they come clean with some truth. Because "the facts" which they have provided are all bullshit! 

Well put. And the sad part is the facts/truth will most likely never be known for the communist party constructing and selling a "reality" they see fit including silencing BY ARREST, doctors simply reporting fact/reality. Some of those doctors died of Covid too. It's fucking shameful. The President for life is not doing his country any favours.

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20 hours ago, kipper said:

Do you at least have a 'reasonable suspicion' that the Red Chinese government is coving up something they did wrong? And then beyond that not providing any REASONABLE explanation why they forcefully silenced their own scientists and people who were coving the story?

What I am describing is a "guilty mind" which is SUSPECTED at being culpable of some malfeasance.  Of course we need more proof, but that should not dissuade the global community from not only demanding answers, or pressing the Chinese HARD for those facts.... no matter how embarrassing they may be.

But China's problem now is that they will NOT likely willing change their story to the truth--- even if the truth was an accident. Because that is not in the Red Chinese mindset to be open; not to the world or their own people. China is NOT Britain, Canada, Japan, Italy, or any other number of nations who would for the SAKE of global health and/or avoidance of future pandemics be honest to the rest of the world.

THEREFORE we ought to treat China as a CRIMINAL SUSPECT would be treated until such facts either clear them of wrongdoing, or convict them of wrongdoing. And we should do this because China had been anything BUT open and helpful in this pandemic.

Come on man, how is it even possible that China with over a BILLION people can be claiming only 91,000 cases of covid? Something like 98th on the list of affected nations. China is basically claiming fewer covid infections than Bahrain, Panama, and Finland.... those lying commie bastards! 

Treat them as GUILTY until they come clean with some truth. Because "the facts" which they have provided are all bullshit! 

The whole situation is BS and suppression of facts and evidence but we still need those facts and evidence to come to an educated conclusion. The Chinese have ALWAYS been a closed off nation, was that way long before Mao took over and likely will be that way for some time. Asian's in general do not trust the west as it was the West which caused the Boxer Rebellion, it was the west which forced Japan to open to trade at the point of a cannon. I am not saying what China is doing is correct, its not, but there is a damn good reason why they are doing it as they are (even if innocent) due to historical precedent.

IMO best way to approach this is to inform the Chinese govt. to turn over all evidence and allow UN inspectors in. If they refuse we (the West) suspend all trade with China until they comply.

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On 5/31/2021 at 11:08 PM, rm2551 said:

Well put. And the sad part is the facts/truth will most likely never be known for the communist party constructing and selling a "reality" they see fit including silencing BY ARREST, doctors simply reporting fact/reality. Some of those doctors died of Covid too. It's fucking shameful. The President for life is not doing his country any favours.

 

China has no shame.  They did this thing to the world, and are acting like they are somehow the  victims of the rest of the world.

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On 6/1/2021 at 8:40 AM, BobDobbs said:

The whole situation is BS and suppression of facts and evidence but we still need those facts and evidence to come to an educated conclusion. The Chinese have ALWAYS been a closed off nation, was that way long before Mao took over and likely will be that way for some time. Asian's in general do not trust the west as it was the West which caused the Boxer Rebellion, it was the west which forced Japan to open to trade at the point of a cannon. I am not saying what China is doing is correct, its not, but there is a damn good reason why they are doing it as they are (even if innocent) due to historical precedent.

IMO best way to approach this is to inform the Chinese govt. to turn over all evidence and allow UN inspectors in. If they refuse we (the West) suspend all trade with China until they comply.

I disagree when you say "Asians" in general all think the same. Sure, there was many things not to trust in terms of the history of European empires. But take Japan as an example:  We fought a bloody war and defeated them with the most devastating weapons ever used in war. But we didn't then make Japan a conquered territory, did we?  We helped the right a new constitution, we helped them rebuild, and then owing to the Japanese culture they became trading PARTNERS, even as they compete with us.

China isn't Japan, and never could be.

Yes, we need proof to convict them, but good luck getting that.  Meanwhile I agree, we cut trade... if we even can do that. But we need to punish them, and all democratic nations need to help with that.

I really wish we could invest more in South American nations and help them build factories and industries. So much better to buy Walmart junk made in Mexico, El Salvador and Honduras. Give those nations a lift up, and a reason for many not to be in the cartels---- or to leave and come here.  Time to cut China OUT.

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12 hours ago, kipper said:

I disagree when you say "Asians" in general all think the same. Sure, there was many things not to trust in terms of the history of European empires. But take Japan as an example:  We fought a bloody war and defeated them with the most devastating weapons ever used in war. But we didn't then make Japan a conquered territory, did we?  We helped the right a new constitution, we helped them rebuild, and then owing to the Japanese culture they became trading PARTNERS, even as they compete with us.

China isn't Japan, and never could be.

Yes, we need proof to convict them, but good luck getting that.  Meanwhile I agree, we cut trade... if we even can do that. But we need to punish them, and all democratic nations need to help with that.

I really wish we could invest more in South American nations and help them build factories and industries. So much better to buy Walmart junk made in Mexico, El Salvador and Honduras. Give those nations a lift up, and a reason for many not to be in the cartels---- or to leave and come here.  Time to cut China OUT.

Sorry, you are correct, I should not have generalized. I am focusing on the Chinese and Japanese in particular. The reason Japan came out the other end in such good shape was because they begrudgingly allowed the American occupation of mainland Japan for over seven years plus the complete re-organization of their governing model. The Japanese were not stupid and they foresaw the future better than most other nations at the time and realized America could be a very valuable partner. The Chinese were a whole different situation. We backed Chang but then Mao won. We ignored Mao will helping Chang set up shop on Taiwan which REALLY PO'ed the Chinese and still does. Now China is the absolute worst mix of socio-political-economic models. They are a completely dictatorial, oppressive state but allow a free-market society driven by payoffs and corruption.

Out of all the nation states the US has to worry about, especially long-term its China. Russia is a paper bear so to speak, take away their nukes and NATO could kick the shit outta them within three weeks. China however has announced and is actually implementing policies to make China the dominant super-power by 2035. They have seriously increased their military spending and doing it now in a very focused, very intelligent way compared to the US policy of the same. They have developed and fielded a long-range air to air missile which completely negates the effectiveness of the F-35, make the damn plane useless and this is only the beginning. China is mostly focusing on expanding their navy in a big way as they lay claim to all of the South China Sea.

We do need to have a unified, heavy hand regarding China otherwise we may regret it.

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1 hour ago, BobDobbs said:

Russia is a paper bear so to speak, take away their nukes and NATO could kick the shit outta them within three weeks.

Just a paper bear, really? But wait a moment, wasn´t there someone with a similar estimation some time ago........if only I could remember......

Ah, I`ve got it, here we go:  "Russia is just a rotten house, kick in the front door and watch the house collapse"

To the best of my recollection that someone was very wrong (Thank heaven). Wrong, like that little megalomaniac, erm, that french.....or corsican.............

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