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McSeven

Zep's Rock and Roll Energy level

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I was watching Zep's TSRTS Rock and Roll vs Knebworth's RR. 

Why do you all think that Knebworth's RR has higher energy than TSRTS version.  Also.  Studio RR has high energy as well.

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Bearing in mind, of course that RnR in 73 was the opener while at Knebworth it was an encore, the song served different purposes in the set. It was played at a slower pace in 73 as a starting point for building the energy level of the set, and IMO the slower pace suited Robert's vocal capabilities of the time, which were certainly on the rougher side compared to when the studio version was cut. As an encore in 79 the faster pace fit since the energy level has reached its peak and the finish line of the show is n sight.

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It's what I've been saying for years. "Rock and Roll" worked best when Robert could song the original vocal line or close to it, and the band played it at the same furious pace as on the album. Therefore, the 1971, 1972, 1977, and 1979 "Rock and Roll" has energy, while the 1973-75 "Rock and Roll" is sluggish and plodding.I

 "Rock and Roll" was meant as a exuberant blast of energy celebrating the rock and roll spirit, not a dirge with Plant barely croaking the lines out.

Edited by Strider

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I don't mind TSRTS RR.  Its just comes across as LZ being lazy or Plant had to rev up his voice for later songs on TSRTS. 

 

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3 hours ago, bluecongo said:

I just think they were cranked out on blow at Knebworth 

That would do the trick

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Compared to the all the incendiary '71 versions, TSRTS version is awful....not even up to the standard of a sound check which is mostly down to Plant's extremely lazy vocal. Percy should not get a pass on this even though there are extenuating circumstances with his voice...I remember my disappointment when hearing this for the first time in '76, especially given all the excitement surrounding their first official live release.  

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5 hours ago, Giveroffire said:

Compared to the all the incendiary '71 versions, TSRTS version is awful....not even up to the standard of a sound check which is mostly down to Plant's extremely lazy vocal. Percy should not get a pass on this even though there are extenuating circumstances with his voice...I remember my disappointment when hearing this for the first time in '76, especially given all the excitement surrounding their first official live release.  

At least the 1973 "Rock and Roll"s had the benefit of being followed by the swaggering, foot-stomping euphoric "Celebration Day". All thoughts of the subpar "Rock and Roll" were immediately forgotten about.

But 1975 had the deadly dull duo of a sluggish and hoarse "Rock and Roll" followed by the unfamiliar and sludgy "Sick Again". Just compare the guitar solo in "Celebration Day" to "Sick Again". The "Celebration Day" solo is a short, sharp, jolt…it has a joy and it lifts the song and lifts the audience. "Sick Again" just kind of lays there and doesn't do much of anything.

At the 1973 shows, whatever state Plant's voice was in at the beginning for "Rock and Roll" was usually forgiven and forgotten by us audience members because by "Celebration Day" and "Black Dog", Plant's voice was usually better and the band was cooking as the 2-3 in the band's opening 1-2-3 punch worked its magic.

In 1975, the shows never really got going for me until "Over the Hills and Far Away". The 1975 "Rock and Roll"-"Sick Again" were the least energetic openings to any Led Zeppelin concert I saw.

1972: Immigrant Song-Heartbreaker

1973: Rock and Roll-Celebration Day-Black Dog

1977: Song Remains the Same-Sick Again

All three of those tours were better openings than 1975.

 

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I guess the slowed down version is funky, yet Studio RR beats live RR.  I also think that MMHop is not really great live.  Zep seems to be able to do the Blues numbers and stretching out songs more better than the tighter songs.

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6 minutes ago, McSeven said:

I guess the slowed down version is funky, yet Studio RR beats live RR.  I also think that MMHop is not really great live.  Zep seems to be able to do the Blues numbers and stretching out songs more better than the tighter songs.

Completely disagree.

1972 and 1977 Rock and Rolls were amazing! Almost punkish in their raucous pace.

Misty Mountain Hop sounded funky and swinging and with the guitar solo linkage to Since I've Been Loving You, they made  a great tandem.

Dancing Days, What Is and What Should Never Be, Immigrant Song, Wanton Song, The Ocean…all were short tight rockers played just like the album and sounded killer in concert.

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Strider I will have to hear more of those live versions that you stated.  

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In 75' they should have used Custard Pie as the opening number even though it was new and not yet released during the 1st leg of the tour. The song is catchy as hell and a straightforward rocker. Most importantly it has Plant sounding like Kim Carnes so even Plant with a bad case of the flu could easily pull it off and allow him to slowly warm up his voice as well.

Those RnR live version from 77' were fantastic. Plant had his voice and as mentioned, it had a punk vibe too.

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Strider.  Look at this.  Plant and Page doing Rock and Roll and Plant singing in the same vein as Studio RR and he is about 47/48 in this.  Yet when he was 25 it was harder to sing in the key of Studio Rock and Roll live on TSRTS.  I don't get it.  

 

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7 hours ago, McSeven said:

Strider.  Look at this.  Plant and Page doing Rock and Roll and Plant singing in the same vein as Studio RR and he is about 47/48 in this.  Yet when he was 25 it was harder to sing in the key of Studio Rock and Roll live on TSRTS.  I don't get it.  

 

I thought it was common knowledge among Led Zeppelin fans but I guess not. So allow me to briefly explain.

Robert Plant broke his voice during the 1972 Japanese tour and he developed nodes on his vocal chords as the 1972-73 European and U.S.Tours progressed. That is why "Immigrant Song" disappeared from the set list for good. No way Plant could handle the wails and high notes of that song. By the time the Madison Square Garden shows were recorded for "The Song Remains the Same" film, it was the end of a long tour and Robert was in dire need of surgery.

After the 1973 tour Robert Plant had surgery to remove the nodes on his throat. This contributed to his raspiness on the 1975 tour...that and contracting the flu right at the beginning of the tour.

It wasn't until the 1977 tour that Robert Plant had fully recovered from his surgery and recaptured the power of his voice, if not the full upper range he had pre-1972.

Edited by Strider

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5 hours ago, McSeven said:

Strider.  Look at this.  Plant and Page doing Rock and Roll and Plant singing in the same vein as Studio RR and he is about 47/48 in this.  Yet when he was 25 it was harder to sing in the key of Studio Rock and Roll live on TSRTS.  I don't get it.  

 

What, no Live Aid flanger on Jimmy's guitar? Oh darn 😞

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