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Ranking The Japan '71 Shows


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I released my podcast episode covering this tour a few weeks ago and forgot to share it here.  Here are the links:

Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/rock-talk-with-dr-cropper/id1518703647#episodeGuid=Buzzsprout-5699776

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/episode/5a7QeAodiQ20QemNGAJjtH?si=F2Wnz2wMSj2gzn9nljoICw

Google: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5idXp6c3Byb3V0LmNvbS8xMTE5MjU0LnJzcw/episode/QnV6enNwcm91dC01Njk5Nzc2?sa=X&ved=0CAQQkfYCahcKEwi4sMnousPsAhUAAAAAHQAAAAAQCQ

This was the order I arrived at:

  1. September 29 - Osaka -- I really don't find Plant that bad, and certainly not distractingly so, after "Immigrant Song."  I think this one is instrumentally superior to the others, although it's close.  The best "Dazed And Confused" of the tour (and an all-time great at that), the one-off performance of "Friends" capping a potential best-ever acoustic set, the best "Moby Dick" of the tour (potential GOAT), the tightest/best-flowing "Whole Lotta Love" of the tour and the longest set of encores gave this one the edge.
  2. September 28 - Osaka -- Not far behind the following night at all.  Very cool Dazed outro, acoustic set on par with the following night, longest ever WLL and the best setlist of the tour with the extras in the acoustic set, especially "Down By The Riverside," and "C'mon Everybody" and "Hi-Heel Sneakers" in the encores.
  3. September 23 - Tokyo -- Probably the most consistently energetic/explosive of the tour, and no doubt an all-time great, but I had to give the Osaka shows the edge due to the rarities and each of them being about 45 minutes longer.
  4. September 24 - Tokyo --  Certainly no slouch, Plant's best night of the tour, and likely a top 15 show of their career in its own right.
  5. September 27 - Hiroshima --  Doesn't deserve to get lost in the shuffle as much as it does, even though it is the fifth-best.  Cool Dazed, better than the two Tokyo versions IMO.
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Definitely the Osaka shows are 1 & 2, the soundboards (sadly incomplete) reinforce their status.  Best Immigrant Song ever on the 29th (Page drops hints of it on the 28th), and one of the best Thank You 's on the 29th.  Great Communication Breakdown that night as well.  All-time great show, for sure.

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I couldn't put 29th above the 28th and 23rd. I honestly think it's a bit overrated. I think the 29th has the same stigma Blueberry Hill has- it's popularity combined with the set list puts it in everyone's favorite list. Although pound for pound, it's not a heavy hitter. In my opinion anyway.

Edited by gibsonfan159
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On 10/20/2020 at 8:14 AM, Bonzo_fan said:

I released my podcast episode covering this tour a few weeks ago and forgot to share it here.  Here are the links:

Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/rock-talk-with-dr-cropper/id1518703647#episodeGuid=Buzzsprout-5699776

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/episode/5a7QeAodiQ20QemNGAJjtH?si=F2Wnz2wMSj2gzn9nljoICw

Google: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5idXp6c3Byb3V0LmNvbS8xMTE5MjU0LnJzcw/episode/QnV6enNwcm91dC01Njk5Nzc2?sa=X&ved=0CAQQkfYCahcKEwi4sMnousPsAhUAAAAAHQAAAAAQCQ

This was the order I arrived at:

  1. September 29 - Osaka -- I really don't find Plant that bad, and certainly not distractingly so, after "Immigrant Song."  I think this one is instrumentally superior to the others, although it's close.  The best "Dazed And Confused" of the tour (and an all-time great at that), the one-off performance of "Friends" capping a potential best-ever acoustic set, the best "Moby Dick" of the tour (potential GOAT), the tightest/best-flowing "Whole Lotta Love" of the tour and the longest set of encores gave this one the edge.
  2. September 28 - Osaka -- Not far behind the following night at all.  Very cool Dazed outro, acoustic set on par with the following night, longest ever WLL and the best setlist of the tour with the extras in the acoustic set, especially "Down By The Riverside," and "C'mon Everybody" and "Hi-Heel Sneakers" in the encores.
  3. September 23 - Tokyo -- Probably the most consistently energetic/explosive of the tour, and no doubt an all-time great, but I had to give the Osaka shows the edge due to the rarities and each of them being about 45 minutes longer.
  4. September 24 - Tokyo --  Certainly no slouch, Plant's best night of the tour, and likely a top 15 show of their career in its own right.
  5. September 27 - Hiroshima --  Doesn't deserve to get lost in the shuffle as much as it does, even though it is the fifth-best.  Cool Dazed, better than the two Tokyo versions IMO.

This is how I have ranked these shows for years...even before the new soundboards came out. 

One other thing that gives 9.29 Osaka the nod over 9.28 Osaka and the others is "Celebration Day". The extra boot that Jones and Bonham give to the rhythm and that half-time drop beat that Bonham does during the outro jam is just amazing and makes this the greatest of the 1971 "Celebration Day" performances.

I am curious about your Plant remark, though. I have never heard anyone complain about 1971 Robert Plant. 1972 Japan tour Plant, yes. But not 1971 tour.

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11 hours ago, Strider said:

This is how I have ranked these shows for years...even before the new soundboards came out. 

One other thing that gives 9.29 Osaka the nod over 9.28 Osaka and the others is "Celebration Day". The extra boot that Jones and Bonham give to the rhythm and that half-time drop beat that Bonham does during the outro jam is just amazing and makes this the greatest of the 1971 "Celebration Day" performances.

I am curious about your Plant remark, though. I have never heard anyone complain about 1971 Robert Plant. 1972 Japan tour Plant, yes. But not 1971 tour.

Agreed, 9/29 is my favourite "Celebration Day" as well.

I've seen people suggest that Plant is a weak link on the 29th, mainly as a justification for ranking the 23rd as the best of the tour. I can see what they mean a bit on "Immigrant Song," and he's not at the level he was in Copenhagen earlier in the year, but I agree with you that there really isn't anything to complain about at all, especially in the grand scheme of their touring history.

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On 10/21/2020 at 11:22 AM, gibsonfan159 said:

I couldn't put 29th above the 28th and 23rd. I honestly think it's a bit overrated. I think the 29th has the same stigma Blueberry Hill has- it's popularity combined with the set list puts it in everyone's favorite list. Although pound for pound, it's not a heavy hitter. In my opinion anyway.

Generally speaking I agree. The 29th has the best Dazed of the tour and an amazing acoustic set, but Plant being in less than ideal shape (honestly his weakest '71 show spare 4/1) is a big no no for me. Friends and Thank You are proof of that for me. I will concede that the band is probably in the best shape that night, especially Jimmy and Bonzo, but the 28th and 23rd are probably only so closely behind that Plant makes or breaks it for me.

 

Personally, I think the ranking goes like this:

1. 28th
2. 23rd
3. 24th
4. 29th

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  • 3 weeks later...

1. 29th Osaka

2. 23rd Tokyo

3. 28th Osaka & 24th Tokyo tied for third place

5. 27th Hiroshima

My wish list for the 50th anniversary: An official release (complete shows, best of Japan- whatever), finally. The complete 929 SB with Plantations by EV. Any hint for the existence of SBs of 923 & 924. A new uncirculated AUD source of 924 with superior soundquality.

AMEN

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16 hours ago, Autumn Moon said:

1. 29th Osaka

2. 23rd Tokyo

3. 28th Osaka & 24th Tokyo tied for third place

5. 27th Hiroshima

My wish list for the 50th anniversary: An official release (complete shows, best of Japan- whatever), finally. The complete 929 SB with Plantations by EV. Any hint for the existence of SBs of 923 & 924. A new uncirculated AUD source of 924 with superior soundquality.

AMEN

Your wish list is great! Hope it will be so!)

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  • 3 months later...
On 10/20/2020 at 11:14 AM, Bonzo_fan said:

I released my podcast episode covering this tour a few weeks ago and forgot to share it here.  Here are the links:

Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/rock-talk-with-dr-cropper/id1518703647#episodeGuid=Buzzsprout-5699776

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/episode/5a7QeAodiQ20QemNGAJjtH?si=F2Wnz2wMSj2gzn9nljoICw

Google: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5idXp6c3Byb3V0LmNvbS8xMTE5MjU0LnJzcw/episode/QnV6enNwcm91dC01Njk5Nzc2?sa=X&ved=0CAQQkfYCahcKEwi4sMnousPsAhUAAAAAHQAAAAAQCQ

This was the order I arrived at:

  1. September 29 - Osaka -- I really don't find Plant that bad, and certainly not distractingly so, after "Immigrant Song."  I think this one is instrumentally superior to the others, although it's close.  The best "Dazed And Confused" of the tour (and an all-time great at that), the one-off performance of "Friends" capping a potential best-ever acoustic set, the best "Moby Dick" of the tour (potential GOAT), the tightest/best-flowing "Whole Lotta Love" of the tour and the longest set of encores gave this one the edge.
  2. September 28 - Osaka -- Not far behind the following night at all.  Very cool Dazed outro, acoustic set on par with the following night, longest ever WLL and the best setlist of the tour with the extras in the acoustic set, especially "Down By The Riverside," and "C'mon Everybody" and "Hi-Heel Sneakers" in the encores.
  3. September 23 - Tokyo -- Probably the most consistently energetic/explosive of the tour, and no doubt an all-time great, but I had to give the Osaka shows the edge due to the rarities and each of them being about 45 minutes longer.
  4. September 24 - Tokyo --  Certainly no slouch, Plant's best night of the tour, and likely a top 15 show of their career in its own right.
  5. September 27 - Hiroshima --  Doesn't deserve to get lost in the shuffle as much as it does, even though it is the fifth-best.  Cool Dazed, better than the two Tokyo versions IMO.

Respectfully, re: your comment re: 9/24 being Plant's best night of the tour, presumably over 9/23:

Plant does not hit the "lady" on Stairway on 9/24, but he does on 9/23. So I'm curious what about Plant is better on the 24th than the 23rd. Personally, any Stairway where Plant hits that note is automatically better than any one where he doesn't, because to me that moment IS the climax of the song. The one possible exception is TSRTS's Stairway due to having Page's best ever Stairway solo. To my knowledge, 9/23 was the last time Plant ever hit the "lady". There's been some discussion about it on the forums and no one's ever refuted it. Just FYI.

Cheers,

ALB

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3 hours ago, AchillesLastBand said:

Respectfully, re: your comment re: 9/24 being Plant's best night of the tour, presumably over 9/23:

Plant does not hit the "lady" on Stairway on 9/24, but he does on 9/23. So I'm curious what about Plant is better on the 24th than the 23rd. Personally, any Stairway where Plant hits that note is automatically better than any one where he doesn't, because to me that moment IS the climax of the song. The one possible exception is TSRTS's Stairway due to having Page's best ever Stairway solo. To my knowledge, 9/23 was the last time Plant ever hit the "lady". There's been some discussion about it on the forums and no one's ever refuted it. Just FYI.

Cheers,

ALB

I'm here to refute it... 😄

Ok, this may blow your mind a little bit... mainly because it comes from a night that is not especially revered as being one of Robert Plant's best shows... far from it.

It's actually the other first night in Tokyo: October 2, 1972.

Here's the link to hear for yourself.

This was brought to my attention in a member's-only thread of the Hotel sometime in the past year. If I remember correctly, the guy that pointed it out as being the last time Plant hit the "lady," created the mistaken impression amongst the readers that he was referring to the first Tokyo show in 1971, only to clarify a few posts later that he meant 1972. And he was right.

 

EDIT: Manchester, November 24, 1971 is also one where Plant nails the entire final verse. Past that, I can't imagine there are any more shows in between the two Japan tours in which Plant hit the "lady" note. Manchester was the last known show where Plant sounded like he did in early 1971... and one of the only times he truly nailed Rock and Roll in the way it was meant to sound (that we have on tape anyway... I'm really hoping to hear the rest of Vancouver soon).

Edited by William Austin
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1 hour ago, William Austin said:

I'm here to refute it... 😄

Ok, this may blow your mind a little bit... mainly because it comes from a night that is not especially revered as being one of Robert Plant's best shows... far from it.

It's actually the other first night in Tokyo: October 2, 1972.

Here's the link to hear for yourself.

This was brought to my attention in a member's-only thread of the Hotel sometime in the past year. If I remember correctly, the guy that pointed it out as being the last time Plant hit the "lady," created the mistaken impression amongst the readers that he was referring to the first Tokyo show in 1971, only to clarify a few posts later that he meant 1972. And he was right.

You're right Robert does hit the "lady" note at the Tokyo 10/02/1972 show he also goes for it for one final time at the show on the 9th in Osaka although it's a bit flat there. He also sings it at the Auckland, Brisbane, both the Seattle shows, and LA. He seemed to dodge the "lady" note more and more in 72 given his voice was slowly deteriorating and never hits the E5 again after 72.

In 1971 he starts to dodge the "lady" note after the first LA show but then hits it in again at Orlando, then during the 1971 Japan tour he hits it at both the Tokyo shows, And again after a two month break he hits it again more frequently during the Winter UK tour in Newcastle, London, Manchester, and Leicester.

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6 hours ago, William Austin said:

I'm here to refute it... 😄

Ok, this may blow your mind a little bit... mainly because it comes from a night that is not especially revered as being one of Robert Plant's best shows... far from it.

It's actually the other first night in Tokyo: October 2, 1972.

Here's the link to hear for yourself.

This was brought to my attention in a member's-only thread of the Hotel sometime in the past year. If I remember correctly, the guy that pointed it out as being the last time Plant hit the "lady," created the mistaken impression amongst the readers that he was referring to the first Tokyo show in 1971, only to clarify a few posts later that he meant 1972. And he was right.

 

EDIT: Manchester, November 24, 1971 is also one where Plant nails the entire final verse. Past that, I can't imagine there are any more shows in between the two Japan tours in which Plant hit the "lady" note. Manchester was the last known show where Plant sounded like he did in early 1971... and one of the only times he truly nailed Rock and Roll in the way it was meant to sound (that we have on tape anyway... I'm really hoping to hear the rest of Vancouver soon).

 

5 hours ago, wordev1977 said:

You're right Robert does hit the "lady" note at the Tokyo 10/02/1972 show he also goes for it for one final time at the show on the 9th in Osaka although it's a bit flat there. He also sings it at the Auckland, Brisbane, both the Seattle shows, and LA. He seemed to dodge the "lady" note more and more in 72 given his voice was slowly deteriorating and never hits the E5 again after 72.

In 1971 he starts to dodge the "lady" note after the first LA show but then hits it in again at Orlando, then during the 1971 Japan tour he hits it at both the Tokyo shows, And again after a two month break he hits it again more frequently during the Winter UK tour in Newcastle, London, Manchester, and Leicester.

Well I'd say fancy that! 🙂 Listened to the link for 10/2/72 and yeah, yeah, he does hit it. I'm glad to be wrong about this. Thank you both. This opens up a whole new universe of potentially "listenable" versions of Stairway 😉

Cheers,

ALB

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Also, I just confirmed for myself that Plant does hit "lady" on Tokyo 24th as well as 23rd. So apologies to Bonzo_fan, as this means my post in which I quotedd him had no basis in fact whatsoever. Seems that I pretty must don't know just anything🤷‍♂️

ALB

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8 minutes ago, AchillesLastBand said:

Also, I just confirmed for myself that Plant does hit "lady" on Tokyo 24th as well as 23rd. So apologies to Bonzo_fan, as this means my post in which I quotedd him had no basis in fact whatsoever. Seems that I pretty must don't know just anything🤷‍♂️

ALB

Haha it's all good! I once referred to 3/27/75 "Black Dog" as a potential best-ever version 😂 Hope you enjoyed the podcast if you listened to it 😊

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1 hour ago, Bonzo_fan said:

Haha it's all good! I once referred to 3/27/75 "Black Dog" as a potential best-ever version 😂 Hope you enjoyed the podcast if you listened to it 😊

I hadn't listened to the podcast but just did and greatly enjoyed it! You have great insights about the shows that can only come from great listening ability (and willingness 😉). Of this tour, I'm only closely familiar with 9-23 Tokyo, which I've had for years and consider among the very best I've ever heard (incl. but not limited to 9-19-70 MSG evening). Your podcast made me really want to hear the Osaka shows, 9-29 slightly more than 9-28. 

I look forward to listening to your 1977 North American Tour episode next!

Thank you,

ALB 

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8 hours ago, AchillesLastBand said:

I hadn't listened to the podcast but just did and greatly enjoyed it! You have great insights about the shows that can only come from great listening ability (and willingness 😉). Of this tour, I'm only closely familiar with 9-23 Tokyo, which I've had for years and consider among the very best I've ever heard (incl. but not limited to 9-19-70 MSG evening). Your podcast made me really want to hear the Osaka shows, 9-29 slightly more than 9-28. 

I look forward to listening to your 1977 North American Tour episode next!

Thank you,

ALB 

Glad you liked it!  9/23 is certainly one of their very best shows -- I would say it, 9/28 & 9/29 are top 10 shows of their career, 9/24 is top 15-20 and 9/27 is top 50 for sure.  9/19/70 Evening is the GOAT as far as I'm concerned.  Both Osaka shows are absolutely worth listening to, and it really is hard to separate the two.  Thankfully, both are now mostly available in excellent sounding soundboards -- check them out on YouTube!

The '77 episode was the last one I recorded without detailed notes, so apologies if it's a bit scattered by comparison!

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Yup. 
I enjoyed the '77 'cast despite it not being as meticulously detailed as the '71 Japan. I was curious to see where you ranked Richfield Coliseum 04-28-77, as I'm currently jamming it. You ranked it #10. I can't argue with that as I've not heard even close to all of the 77s that are generally regarded as good or above, but I think this is a really good audience recording (you described it as so-so). It's not the absolute clearest of them but it's very well balanced. And in your review you did nothing but compliment the performances. Are you listening to the 2019 JEMS/Winston remaster of the Rocco C tapes? In any case, I think the Kashmir may be my favorite ever. Plant is A+, there are no mistakes, and during the outro where Bonzo does those insane fills for the final two bars of the sequencs, he and Jimmy come out totally in sync EVERY TIME, somehow, which was often not the case due to Bonzo's "liberties" with proper time.

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14 hours ago, AchillesLastBand said:

Yup. 
I enjoyed the '77 'cast despite it not being as meticulously detailed as the '71 Japan. I was curious to see where you ranked Richfield Coliseum 04-28-77, as I'm currently jamming it. You ranked it #10. I can't argue with that as I've not heard even close to all of the 77s that are generally regarded as good or above, but I think this is a really good audience recording (you described it as so-so). It's not the absolute clearest of them but it's very well balanced. And in your review you did nothing but compliment the performances. Are you listening to the 2019 JEMS/Winston remaster of the Rocco C tapes? In any case, I think the Kashmir may be my favorite ever. Plant is A+, there are no mistakes, and during the outro where Bonzo does those insane fills for the final two bars of the sequencs, he and Jimmy come out totally in sync EVERY TIME, somehow, which was often not the case due to Bonzo's "liberties" with proper time.

Yes, 4/28 is one that I may have been too hard on, both sound quality and performance.  I don't think I was listening to the best version of it, no.  I'll seek out that version when I listen two months from now.  I'm looking forward to re-evaluating my list as I listen to the shows this year another year wiser, though I likely won't record a new episode to announce whatever revisions I make.

It certainly is an epic "Kashmir" with Plant in top form, and yes, Bonzo's liberties with "proper time" could cause some "wobble" in more free-form sections like that, but I think that's part of the charm.

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19 hours ago, Bonzo_fan said:

Yes, 4/28 is one that I may have been too hard on, both sound quality and performance.  I don't think I was listening to the best version of it, no.  I'll seek out that version when I listen two months from now.  I'm looking forward to re-evaluating my list as I listen to the shows this year another year wiser, though I likely won't record a new episode to announce whatever revisions I make.

It certainly is an epic "Kashmir" with Plant in top form, and yes, Bonzo's liberties with "proper time" could cause some "wobble" in more free-form sections like that, but I think that's part of the charm.

I agree it's part of the charm. I just think it's better when they actually do "telepathically" nail the timing as they do on this Kashmir. 🙂 I haven't heard another version this intense, Bonzo-wise, where they really nail it.

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On 10/20/2020 at 11:14 AM, Bonzo_fan said:

I released my podcast episode covering this tour a few weeks ago and forgot to share it here.  Here are the links:

Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/rock-talk-with-dr-cropper/id1518703647#episodeGuid=Buzzsprout-5699776

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/episode/5a7QeAodiQ20QemNGAJjtH?si=F2Wnz2wMSj2gzn9nljoICw

Google: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5idXp6c3Byb3V0LmNvbS8xMTE5MjU0LnJzcw/episode/QnV6enNwcm91dC01Njk5Nzc2?sa=X&ved=0CAQQkfYCahcKEwi4sMnousPsAhUAAAAAHQAAAAAQCQ

This was the order I arrived at:

  1. September 29 - Osaka -- I really don't find Plant that bad, and certainly not distractingly so, after "Immigrant Song."  I think this one is instrumentally superior to the others, although it's close.  The best "Dazed And Confused" of the tour (and an all-time great at that), the one-off performance of "Friends" capping a potential best-ever acoustic set, the best "Moby Dick" of the tour (potential GOAT), the tightest/best-flowing "Whole Lotta Love" of the tour and the longest set of encores gave this one the edge.
  2. September 28 - Osaka -- Not far behind the following night at all.  Very cool Dazed outro, acoustic set on par with the following night, longest ever WLL and the best setlist of the tour with the extras in the acoustic set, especially "Down By The Riverside," and "C'mon Everybody" and "Hi-Heel Sneakers" in the encores.
  3. September 23 - Tokyo -- Probably the most consistently energetic/explosive of the tour, and no doubt an all-time great, but I had to give the Osaka shows the edge due to the rarities and each of them being about 45 minutes longer.
  4. September 24 - Tokyo --  Certainly no slouch, Plant's best night of the tour, and likely a top 15 show of their career in its own right.
  5. September 27 - Hiroshima --  Doesn't deserve to get lost in the shuffle as much as it does, even though it is the fifth-best.  Cool Dazed, better than the two Tokyo versions IMO.

That 09-29 Rock and Roll is F'n swingin! Jonesy and Bonzo bringin' the heat.

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4 hours ago, AchillesLastBand said:

I agree it's part of the charm. I just think it's better when they actually do "telepathically" nail the timing as they do on this Kashmir. 🙂 I haven't heard another version this intense, Bonzo-wise, where they really nail it.

For sure.  Have you heard 6/25/77?  It's probably my favourite "Kashmir" outro for Bonzo.

2 hours ago, AchillesLastBand said:

That 09-29 Rock and Roll is F'n swingin! Jonesy and Bonzo bringin' the heat.

It sure is!  Glad you finally got around to such an all-time great show!

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6 minutes ago, Bonzo_fan said:

For sure.  Have you heard 6/25/77?  It's probably my favourite "Kashmir" outro for Bonzo.

It sure is!  Glad you finally got around to such an all-time great show!

Yes I've listened to "Badgeholders Annual Meeting" a lot, but not recently. Thanks and will report back. 🙂

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1 hour ago, Bonzo_fan said:

For sure.  Have you heard 6/25/77?  It's probably my favourite "Kashmir" outro for Bonzo.

It sure is!  Glad you finally got around to such an all-time great show!

 

1 hour ago, AchillesLastBand said:

Yes I've listened to "Badgeholders Annual Meeting" a lot, but not recently. Thanks and will report back. 🙂

You're 100% right about 6/25/77. In fact, prior to going back and listening to it, I noticed that I'd already "loved" it in my library, indicating that I considered it a superb rendition. It is longer than 4/28, and thus has more of those crazy outro fills, and they don't miss on a single one. Awesome.🤘

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