Which vinyl? — recreating my collection

[scdfndr]

With streaming services so accessible, like many of you, I suspect, my CDs are long ago boxed up. LPs too. But we all know nothing matches the warm, rich, full sound experience that is vinyl. I thought those days were long gone. (I haven’t seen my Klipsh speakers in so long, I’m not sure I spelled it correctly)

Then my wife bought me this kitschy retro Croswell turntable. (No, it’s not my old system. But it serves a purpose.) So I’ve decided to replace my old Zeppelin collection, in its entirety. (I may skip TSRTS.) I purchased my current collection in the 80s and most of those I bought used. They were in pretty bad shape even then. But I was just a kid and the songs, pops, crackles, hums, skips and all, took me places I cannot begin to describe.

 My question is this. What vinyl format creates the best overall listening experience? I know Page has done reissues of all titles, twice I think. (90s and ‘15?) And I know the 2015 reissues came in deluxe editions. I read some reviews of the 2015 RI of PG that were not good. But most on this forum were favorable. So, if you had the ability to start over (oh so exciting) what format? Original releases, used but NM or VG? The 2015 RIs, new? Something else?  I’m less interested in the extra material and bells and whistles that come with the deluxe editions. My main interest is sound quality. I would also appreciate any advice on avoiding scammers. I’ve seen “original pressings” still in shrink wrap (seriously) for prices too good to be true. What else should I watch out for?

So, thanks for helping me kick off this journey. Maybe some of you will find it fun/interesting/nostalgic to come along. I hope so.

[zoso_jobes]

I have owned countless different pressings of each album. Over the last few years I have narrowed down my Zep studio discography to strictly one copy each with the exception of Led Zeppelin II. All of the pressings besides Zep II are the Classic Records 200 gram QUIEX SV-P reissues which are significantly better than the new JP reissues and any of the original pressings (IMO). For Zep II I own a VG+ RL and the MoFi. I would definitely give the edge to RL. I also think JP is full of it when he says the new reissues are "the best these albums have ever sounded". Especially when he has the Classic Records reissues and I'm sure a plethora of many other Zep pressings on his record shelf.

I would also suggest you upgrade your turntable sooner rather than later. The Crosleys tend to destroy grooves on the records because the quality and tracking force is not up to par. I certainly wouldn't be putting any of the Classic Records 200 gram pressings or rare audiophile pressings in general on those turntables. If you're not keen on upgrading then I would just go with the new reissues which you can find relatively cheap these days or some of the older playable copies. 

Edited November 10, 2020 by zoso_jobes

[Strider]

DO NOT PLAY YOUR GOOD VINYL ON CROSLEY TURNTABLES! I cannot stress this enough. If you want to play your old beat up vinyl, fine. But don't go to the expense of buying new Zeppelin vinyl if all you have is a Crosley to play them on.

As for the Led Zeppelin vinyl records themselves and which ones to get, there are three options.

1. The cheapest route is to get the brand new remasters. Since, you don't want the extra bells and whistles, you can get each studio album brand new mint in shrinkwrap for around $19 - $24, except for the double album Physical Graffiti, which will run you about $30-$40. 

Some anoraks may quibble with the sound, but I haven't noticed any significant flaws on my stereo. I have them all in the super deluxe editions and they all sound fine to me.

2. You can try to find original pressings through your local record shops or thru the internet, either used or close to mint, if possible. This is going to be much more expensive than getting the remasters. It will also be fraught with peril for there are a lot of scammers on ebay and other sites. Depending on how mint you want your vinyl, you can probably find clean playable original pressings of the Led Zeppelin albums from anywhere between $20 to $100s.

3. The most expensive route to acquiring your Led Zeppelin on vinyl is getting the Classic Records versions. I have yet to see one that is less than $100-$200.

[The Only Way To Fly]

A few years ago I had quite a few Zeppelin pressings from Iceland. They were all pressed around 1982 and nothing really special about the sound - sounded just as good as any other 1980's Zeppelin records. I parted ways with them to help fund a family trip to Australia a few years ago. 

[Alexander M]

I have always tried to conserve vinyl, so I make a copy right after the purchase. I used to be on tape, now I'm making a digital copy. Old tapes can also be digitized, but the quality is predictably lower.
Here are two snippets for example:

https://yadi.sk/d/D5Fyw0ehaD96kg

 

Edited November 11, 2020 by Alexander M

[scdfndr]

Thanks all. This is exactly the info. I needed. I especially appreciate the input on the Crosley. I researched it myself earlier and found no shortage of similar complaints about these products. (A gift from the wife. So, you know.) I will not play anything other than the old beat up records on it. I plan to use the opportunity to dust off my old Technics turntable and my old system and putting those with the new lp purchases in a different listening room. The turntable at the time (late 80s, early 90s) was considered a good one, I think. If anyone knows otherwise, feel free to tell me.

Since posting this, I did some more research which led me to the Discogs site. Man, I had no idea how specialized the vinyl industry was. (SK, RL, RP, PS, etc. I have no idea what these mean.) Based upon other information I came across online, I have been focusing on original U.S. releases in NM. (Something I saw on youtube said don't expect to find the second album in better than a VG+, however.) At least one source was of the opinion that vinyl released outside of the US or UK was not as good. If someone thinks otherwise, please tell me. I will also keep an eye out for the Classic Records series.

Please feel free to add your two cents. This is very helpful. Thanks.

[scdfndr]

4 hours ago, Alexander M said:

I have always tried to conserve vinyl, so I make a copy right after the purchase. I used to be on tape, now I'm making a digital copy. Old tapes can also be digitized, but the quality is predictably lower.
Here are two snippets for example:

https://yadi.sk/d/D5Fyw0ehaD96kg

 

Jesus, that sounds amazing, even on my PC! That riff, too. Maybe my favorite of all time, and penned by a bass player, no less. Thanks for sharing that.

[scdfndr]

FYI:

 

 

[jsj]

When you dig your Technics turntable out, put a new stylus on it. An old or worn stylus doesn’t sound pretty and it may damage your new grooves

[scdfndr]

12 minutes ago, jsj said:

When you dig your Technics turntable out, put a new stylus on it. An old or worn stylus doesn’t sound pretty and it may damage your new grooves

Great advice. Any recommendations? Thanks

[zoso_jobes]

15 minutes ago, scdfndr said:

Great advice. Any recommendations? Thanks

What model Technics do you have? What's your price range? Ortofon makes good affordable cartridges.

[scdfndr]

19 minutes ago, zoso_jobes said:

What model Technics do you have? What's your price range? Ortofon makes good affordable cartridges.

I had to look. SL-QD33, automatic, quartz. I think i paid $200 for it, maybe, in the late 80s, without a cartridge.  Here's one for sale, used for $300. This is it, exactly. Also, I have a NAD receiver that is bulletproof and Klipsh speakers, if that helps. I was about to donate them to charity. I guess I'd pay $100-$200 for a cartridge. Haven't really thought about it.

https://reverb.com/item/7661743-technics-sl-qd33-k-quartz-direct-drive-automatic-turntable

Thanks for the input.

 

[zoso_jobes]

19 hours ago, scdfndr said:

I had to look. SL-QD33, automatic, quartz. I think i paid $200 for it, maybe, in the late 80s, without a cartridge.  Here's one for sale, used for $300. This is it, exactly. Also, I have a NAD receiver that is bulletproof and Klipsh speakers, if that helps. I was about to donate them to charity. I guess I'd pay $100-$200 for a cartridge. Haven't really thought about it.

https://reverb.com/item/7661743-technics-sl-qd33-k-quartz-direct-drive-automatic-turntable

Thanks for the input.

 

Got it. Did a bit of research because I wasn't too familiar with that specific model. 

Since its a P mount turntable, I would recommend going with the Ortofon sereies. Either the OM5 or OM10. I had both of these years ago on a few back up turntables and both sounded great.  For an extra $10 I would just go with the OM10. You certainly don't want to spend more on a cartridge than your turntable is worth either. If anyone else has any input please feel free to add to this. Also, I highly recommend purchasing from Music Direct. Super fast shipping. Here are some links below for you.

https://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?t=23677

https://www.musicdirect.com/phono-cartridges/ortofon-super-om10-mm-phono-cartridge?utm_source=bing&utm_medium=ppc&msclkid=a0dce987042818d026a7b62a483c7d02

https://www.musicdirect.com/phono-cartridges/ortofon-om5e-mm-phono-cartridge

[scdfndr]

4 hours ago, zoso_jobes said:

Got it. Did a bit of research because I wasn't too familiar with that specific model. 

Since its a P mount turntable, I would recommend going with the Ortofon sereies. Either the OM5 or OM10. I had both of these years ago on a few back up turntables and both sounded great.  For an extra $10 I would just go with the OM10. You certainly don't want to spend more on a cartridge than your turntable is worth either. If anyone else has any input please feel free to add to this. Also, I highly recommend purchasing from Music Direct. Super fast shipping. Here are some links below for you.

https://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?t=23677

https://www.musicdirect.com/phono-cartridges/ortofon-super-om10-mm-phono-cartridge?utm_source=bing&utm_medium=ppc&msclkid=a0dce987042818d026a7b62a483c7d02

https://www.musicdirect.com/phono-cartridges/ortofon-om5e-mm-phono-cartridge

Wow! Thanks so much for the advice. I'll go with it.

[jsj]

Another thing to consider is how much time are you going to spend in critical listening mode, versus enjoying the audio ride? As long as the sound is good, and the latest releases generally are, and you’re equipment is good enough to create a good listening sound. Then do you need more?

If if you have a really top notch system then you probably do need the best versions such as the Classic Records releases,  because the improvement in sonic quality will become more noticeable. If you just want to play the albums knowing you have good quality sound without getting all analytical then I’d say the latest releases are plenty good enough for that. 

Its about matching the product to your system.  

[Xolo1974]

I’ve just bought the latest vinyl edition of PG. I have to say I’m very disappointed. To me, no noticeable improvement on the version I bought in the early to mid 90’s. 

[scdfndr]

20 hours ago, jsj said:

Another thing to consider is how much time are you going to spend in critical listening mode, versus enjoying the audio ride? As long as the sound is good, and the latest releases generally are, and you’re equipment is good enough to create a good listening sound. Then do you need more?

If if you have a really top notch system then you probably do need the best versions such as the Classic Records releases,  because the improvement in sonic quality will become more noticeable. If you just want to play the albums knowing you have good quality sound without getting all analytical then I’d say the latest releases are plenty good enough for that. 

Its about matching the product to your system.  

Good advice. I don't think my current system warrants the Classic Records releases. My goal at this point is to find the cleanest copies of the pre-remastered releases. I know that will be more costly (than simply buying the newly remastered copies) and more daunting a project. I also know there's a greater risk of getting a record that is not much better than the ones I currently have. (I've been playing my old copies and it's really I, II, III and PG I need to replace. The others are fine.) If that doesn't work out, I'll fall back on the new remastered copies. (I assume that's what you mean by "latest releases.") If anyone disagrees, please don't be shy about telling me. Thanks again for all of the suggestions. It's just what I needed.

Edited November 13, 2020 by scdfndr
omission

[scdfndr]

17 hours ago, Xolo1974 said:

I’ve just bought the latest vinyl edition of PG. I have to say I’m very disappointed. To me, no noticeable improvement on the version I bought in the early to mid 90’s. 

In my research, that album gets the most and strongest criticisms, by far. So, it's not just you.

[scdfndr]

Thanks all for the great advice. I’ve since been weighing whether to replace my old system with a modern one that will take up less room and be more aesthetically pleasing. So, I’m contemplating buying a nice turntable with built in pre-amp and high quality powered speakers. My concern is eliminating the stand alone amplifier will sacrifice sound quality. I really want to play audiophile quality LPs. I’m willing to sacrifice SOME measure of sound quality for convenience and appearances, but if a new set up sounds no better than CDs, the purpose of a new system is defeated. I own a NAD 7020(e) receiver from the early 90s. I’ve seen some used for sale for I think more than I paid for it new. I could still use it. 

So, long question short, can I get audiophile sound from a turntable with built in preamp and powered speakers (I’m looking at spending about $1k) or should I keep the receiver and build around it? Thanks again.

 

[scdfndr]

For anyone still following this thread, thanks for all of the great advice. I used the opportunity to have a conversation with my wife about the Crosley she gave me. (It was fine.) Last week, after much research, I purchased a Pro Ject Debut Carbon Esprit TT (scores points for longest name), with an acrylic platter, auto speed control, and an Ortofon Red cartridge. (I may upgrade to Blue, but right now, the Red suits me.) I paired it with powered speakers from Klipsch, The Fives. The system sounds awesome to me and looks even better. You might be surprised to hear how much sound (rich, warm, full) these small speakers produce. I’ve decided to now search for the Classic Records reissues for all Zep titles. Man, they are expensive! I’m kicking myself for not doing this sooner, when what (I think) went for $30 now goes for $400 and greater! I’ll return with reports on sound quality, should anyone be interested. Thanks again. 

[Autumn Moon]

3 hours ago, scdfndr said:

For anyone still following this thread, thanks for all of the great advice. I used the opportunity to have a conversation with my wife about the Crosley she gave me. (It was fine.) Last week, after much research, I purchased a Pro Ject Debut Carbon Esprit TT (scores points for longest name), with an acrylic platter, auto speed control, and an Ortofon Red cartridge. (I may upgrade to Blue, but right now, the Red suits me.) I paired it with powered speakers from Klipsch, The Fives. The system sounds awesome to me and looks even better. You might be surprised to hear how much sound (rich, warm, full) these small speakers produce. I’ve decided to now search for the Classic Records reissues for all Zep titles. Man, they are expensive! I’m kicking myself for not doing this sooner, when what (I think) went for $30 now goes for $400 and greater! I’ll return with reports on sound quality, should anyone be interested. Thanks again. 

Bravo, you made a good decision to purchase the Pro-Ject turntable!

About the vinyl: I bought LZ I - Houses Of The Holy on Classic Records 200 gram round about 2002, the price was $ 45 each. The pressing quality is excellent & they sound incredible, no doubt. Also, I have the 2014 remasters and I think they sound quite good, too. Considering the extreme high prices for the Classic Records I would recommend you to try the 2014 remasters first, guess you won´t be unhappy with them.

[scdfndr]

14 hours ago, Autumn Moon said:

Bravo, you made a good decision to purchase the Pro-Ject turntable!

About the vinyl: I bought LZ I - Houses Of The Holy on Classic Records 200 gram round about 2002, the price was $ 45 each. The pressing quality is excellent & they sound incredible, no doubt. Also, I have the 2014 remasters and I think they sound quite good, too. Considering the extreme high prices for the Classic Records I would recommend you to try the 2014 remasters first, guess you won´t be unhappy with them.

Awesome. Thanks for the input.

[jsj]

If you’re going into the expensive vinyl world you need to know that cleanliness is essential, Get a carbon fibre brush, some and a stylus cleaner, at the least and use them. I have a vinyl cleaning machine for old vinyl. In the main i find crackling is caused by dust and dirt and not scratched vinyl. I wish I’d have known thirty years ago what I know now

[scdfndr]

5 hours ago, jsj said:

If you’re going into the expensive vinyl world you need to know that cleanliness is essential, Get a carbon fibre brush, some and a stylus cleaner, at the least and use them. I have a vinyl cleaning machine for old vinyl. In the main i find crackling is caused by dust and dirt and not scratched vinyl. I wish I’d have known thirty years ago what I know now

Funny that you should mention it. That was to be my next research project — how to clean vinyl. Thanks for this. I think you may have omitted a word, above — after “brush,” you wrote “some,” and I can’t tell what substance you’re referring to. Please let me know and I’ll get right on it. Just cleaning my old records may greatly improve the sound, from what I’ve read. Thanks again. This forum is great.

[zoso_jobes]

On 11/30/2020 at 2:48 PM, scdfndr said:

For anyone still following this thread, thanks for all of the great advice. I used the opportunity to have a conversation with my wife about the Crosley she gave me. (It was fine.) Last week, after much research, I purchased a Pro Ject Debut Carbon Esprit TT (scores points for longest name), with an acrylic platter, auto speed control, and an Ortofon Red cartridge. (I may upgrade to Blue, but right now, the Red suits me.) I paired it with powered speakers from Klipsch, The Fives. The system sounds awesome to me and looks even better. You might be surprised to hear how much sound (rich, warm, full) these small speakers produce. I’ve decided to now search for the Classic Records reissues for all Zep titles. Man, they are expensive! I’m kicking myself for not doing this sooner, when what (I think) went for $30 now goes for $400 and greater! I’ll return with reports on sound quality, should anyone be interested. Thanks again. 

You made a fantastic decision. The Project turntables are quite nice. Use the red cartridge for now and upgrade to the blue after. Let us know if you find the Classic Records reissues. It seems like eBay is usually your best bet but they are getting expensive. Check Discogs daily as well. I will also keep an eye out and reach out to you if I find any.