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The Vaccine for Covid is coming fast


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1 hour ago, gibsonfan159 said:

Yet if someone with a different idealistic stance that you didn't agree with used this exact same logic to support their argument, you and many others here would chant "bullshit" and change your target (as you've all done many times). Or is it that the media, politicians, and technocrats have only lied to one side? Funny how quickly people join the protest when it's their lives being inconvenienced. But somehow their protest is more justified.

Go ahead and get your shots in before they shut it down.

There's obviously little point in trying to deal honestly with people like you.  But amuse me:  give me an example of "chanting bullshit and changing my target".  Since I've done it "many times" (according to you), shouldn't be hard, right?

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On 12/4/2020 at 8:59 AM, JohnOsbourne said:

I'm old enough to remember in the 80's when Fauci was warning that AIDS was going to break out among heterosexuals.  The guy is a bureaucrat, not a scientist.  (And even if he was a scientist, his word shouldn't be taken as gospel.)

He was right. Look at AIDS in Africa, India and other places back in the 1980s. You're right that his word shouldn't be taken as gospel, but he shouldn't be dismissed either. I think he's more of a scientist than some of you are willing to admit.  Check out the links from this page... a quick review of several of them can give you a decent idea about the prevalence of AIDS in Africa. I worked as a nurse in San Francisco during the 1980s and remember that time period well.
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=AIDS+epidemic+in+Africa+1980s
This article in particular has some useful info

https://www.blackhistorymonth.org.uk/article/section/real-stories/the-history-of-aids-in-africa/

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On 12/4/2020 at 8:12 AM, Stryder1978 said:

Don't forget....

Fauci first spoke about the wearing of masks amid the COVID-19 pandemic during a March interview with 60 Minutes.

"Right now, in the United States, people should not be walking around with masks," Fauci said during the interview. "There's no reason to be walking around with a mask."

He and the CDC changed that within a couple weeks too. It's unfortunate that people hang on to the fist statement and conveniently overlook all the suggestions, requests, etc. made since then. Those recommendations changed over time as they learned more about this new emerging disease.

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On 12/5/2020 at 1:10 AM, SteveAJones said:

That would explain the idiotic notions that we should hide in our homes until there is a cure, or given that masks don't work we should mask harder.

I accepted we had a new paradigm, "Earth + COVID," as I watched the cruise ship passengers climb right into the back of Yokohama taxi cabs.  

It has been shown repeatedly that masks DO work. They need to be made of appropriate material and worn correctly. They are one of the most important mitigation steps people can take. We don't have to "hide in our homes" but there are certainly higher-risk situations we can and should avoid. They aren't a "magic bullet" and other measures need to be done as well. However people don't like to change their behavior if it's inconvenient in some way. Instead, people would rather ignore recommendations and avoid using some common sense. It's so much more satisfying to gripe about the folks making recommendations and working on the problem than it is to examine and alter our own behavior.

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4 hours ago, Lake of Shadows said:

He was right. Look at AIDS in Africa, India and other places back in the 1980s. You're right that his word shouldn't be taken as gospel, but he shouldn't be dismissed either. I think he's more of a scientist than some of you are willing to admit.  Check out the links from this page... a quick review of several of them can give you a decent idea about the prevalence of AIDS in Africa. I worked as a nurse in San Francisco during the 1980s and remember that time period well.
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=AIDS+epidemic+in+Africa+1980s
This article in particular has some useful info

https://www.blackhistorymonth.org.uk/article/section/real-stories/the-history-of-aids-in-africa/

Yep 

4 hours ago, Lake of Shadows said:

He and the CDC changed that within a couple weeks too. It's unfortunate that people hang on to the fist statement and conveniently overlook all the suggestions, requests, etc. made since then. Those recommendations changed over time as they learned more about this new emerging disease.

Yep 

4 hours ago, Lake of Shadows said:

It has been shown repeatedly that masks DO work. They need to be made of appropriate material and worn correctly. They are one of the most important mitigation steps people can take. We don't have to "hide in our homes" but there are certainly higher-risk situations we can and should avoid. They aren't a "magic bullet" and other measures need to be done as well. However people don't like to change their behavior if it's inconvenient in some way. Instead, people would rather ignore recommendations and avoid using some common sense. It's so much more satisfying to gripe about the folks making recommendations and working on the problem than it is to examine and alter our own behavior.

Yep.

3/3 - :thumbsup: 

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6 hours ago, Lake of Shadows said:

He was right. Look at AIDS in Africa, India and other places back in the 1980s. You're right that his word shouldn't be taken as gospel, but he shouldn't be dismissed either. I think he's more of a scientist than some of you are willing to admit.  Check out the links from this page... a quick review of several of them can give you a decent idea about the prevalence of AIDS in Africa. I worked as a nurse in San Francisco during the 1980s and remember that time period well.
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=AIDS+epidemic+in+Africa+1980s
This article in particular has some useful info

https://www.blackhistorymonth.org.uk/article/section/real-stories/the-history-of-aids-in-africa/

Hmm, interesting.  So in poor, third world countries, heterosexual AIDS is a real thing, and diseases that have killed people there for years becomes something new and different.  But in the rich west, where these diseases have been eradicated by various means, it isn't.  Yeah, clearly, it must be a viral infection. 

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The king has announced that his legal mouthpiece,Dribbly Hairdyelani has COVID-19.This may,or may not be true.No-one knows anymore,especially those living in the kingdom of Norton Stamp who continues to gather his subjects into large groups where they infect each other and listen to king Norton Stamp's funny old stories until Stamp tires and goes home in his jetty flyer waving at them and leaving them out in the cold when the young must help the old and sickly walk back because the king was shown the bill for the buses.One could count the number of attendees by counting the dropped cardboard signs with the kings stamp on them by the roadside.

The king had COVID but he got better.....and that may,or may not be true too.

No-one knows anymore,especially those living in the kingdom of Norton Stamp.

 

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3 hours ago, JohnOsbourne said:

Yes, the efficacy of masks is established without any kind of doubt, case closed, end of story. 

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/danish-study-suggests-masks-do-little-stop-covid-iowa-gov-insists-there-evidence-both

So what's with all the social distancing + masks?  Why do we need both?

Masks are not a 100% barrier/preventive. Viral load is key in transmission. Droplets and aerosolized virus particles are more concentrated the closer to the person exhaling them. If masked people pass by each other briefly in the grocery store, the amount of virus in the air at any one spot is pretty small. People close to each other for longer periods of time, and if one of them is exhaling the virus, the closer they are to each other and the longer they are close to each other, the more virus is exhaled in the vicinity. Think of what it's like when a smoker is walking past you while smoking versus standing next to you in a conversation for 15-20 minutes while having a cigarette. You would be exposed to a lot more smoke in the latter situation. That's why grocery stores don't seem to be a problem but crowded church services have been sources of outbreaks several times. Covid-19 is transmitted primarily by droplets but it also gets aerosolized. Both masks and distancing help minimize the viral load you might be exposed to or transmit to others. That's why I'm perfectly willing to go to the grocery store (well, some of them) but I'm not going to eat inside a restaurant.

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5 hours ago, JohnOsbourne said:

Yes, the efficacy of masks is established without any kind of doubt, case closed, end of story. 

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/danish-study-suggests-masks-do-little-stop-covid-iowa-gov-insists-there-evidence-both

So what's with all the social distancing + masks?  Why do we need both?

This was never about combating a virus.

You Are Being Conditioned.jpg

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7 hours ago, Lake of Shadows said:

Masks are not a 100% barrier/preventive. Viral load is key in transmission. Droplets and aerosolized virus particles are more concentrated the closer to the person exhaling them. If masked people pass by each other briefly in the grocery store, the amount of virus in the air at any one spot is pretty small. People close to each other for longer periods of time, and if one of them is exhaling the virus, the closer they are to each other and the longer they are close to each other, the more virus is exhaled in the vicinity. Think of what it's like when a smoker is walking past you while smoking versus standing next to you in a conversation for 15-20 minutes while having a cigarette. You would be exposed to a lot more smoke in the latter situation. That's why grocery stores don't seem to be a problem but crowded church services have been sources of outbreaks several times. Covid-19 is transmitted primarily by droplets but it also gets aerosolized. Both masks and distancing help minimize the viral load you might be exposed to or transmit to others. That's why I'm perfectly willing to go to the grocery store (well, some of them) but I'm not going to eat inside a restaurant.

Just eat at the same restaurants as Gavin Newsome et al., you should be quite safe apparently. 

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17 hours ago, Lake of Shadows said:

He and the CDC changed that within a couple weeks too. It's unfortunate that people hang on to the fist statement and conveniently overlook all the suggestions, requests, etc. made since then. Those recommendations changed over time as they learned more about this new emerging disease.

Face the facts...he lied to the American people.  Why should we trust ANYTHING he has to say going forward?

BTW, I religiously wear my mask - even when going for walks on trails in open spaces and in my cubicle at the office, practice social distancing (more like 12 feet rather than 6) and don't eat at restaurants or go to social events.

Oh, and the "Social Justice" riots and protests were fine, but people praying in churches, mosques or synagogues help spread the disease?  Give me a break! 

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8 hours ago, SteveAJones said:

This was never about combating a virus.

You Are Being Conditioned.jpg

What freedoms are being infringed? What are people supposed to do in a pandemic, just go on and party ala Masque of the Red Death or take basic, common sense precautions. Heck I am no expert but I do have eyes to see and I see every country that initiated strict lock-down orders early are all back to normal. Taiwan had what, 7 deaths total?

The other day I had a business associate who refused to meet via ZOOM and insisted on an in-person meet as a Zoom meeting was a violation regarding her access or some nonsense. I informed her due to the pandemic there are protocols in place and then asked her how a Zoom meeting was "limiting access" and she said, "well what if my internet goes down?" So I replied, well what if your car breaks down? What if there is a tornado? What if the room I book is not available? She became all huffy and ended the call. Oh well, stupid id as stupid does and I really don't want her business if she is so ignorant of reality.

Most of the complains and conspiracy theories are sounding an awful like that scene from Dr. Strangelove between Gen Ripper and Capt. Mandrake.

 

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On 12/4/2020 at 10:31 AM, JohnOsbourne said:

Anyone who thinks these politicians are going to get injected on the telescreen with anything but a saline solution needs to self-quarantine for a very long time, as reality is not their cup of their tea.

I have more faith that they will do it than that Trump actually had Covid.  He likely lied.  He was just too unaffected at his age for me to buy it and he is a liar anyway

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All I know is that I have been wearing a mask and have not got sick once, while the clown show at the White House keeps racking up positive tests and infecting others.

And no, I don't think a vaccine is going to plug me into the matrix. I've been getting flu shots all my life and never had problems.

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12 hours ago, Lake of Shadows said:

Masks are not a 100% barrier/preventive. Viral load is key in transmission. Droplets and aerosolized virus particles are more concentrated the closer to the person exhaling them. If masked people pass by each other briefly in the grocery store, the amount of virus in the air at any one spot is pretty small. People close to each other for longer periods of time, and if one of them is exhaling the virus, the closer they are to each other and the longer they are close to each other, the more virus is exhaled in the vicinity. Think of what it's like when a smoker is walking past you while smoking versus standing next to you in a conversation for 15-20 minutes while having a cigarette. You would be exposed to a lot more smoke in the latter situation. That's why grocery stores don't seem to be a problem but crowded church services have been sources of outbreaks several times. Covid-19 is transmitted primarily by droplets but it also gets aerosolized. Both masks and distancing help minimize the viral load you might be exposed to or transmit to others. That's why I'm perfectly willing to go to the grocery store (well, some of them) but I'm not going to eat inside a restaurant.

What you say makes sense. I guess I have been lucky.  Have been to the store weekly, sometimes daily.  Went to church yesterday.  About the 5th or 6th time since Covid I guess.  But i am staying clear of people

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1 hour ago, JohnOsbourne said:

Lot of true believers here, I see.

No. Just people who use common sense and don't subscribe to the extreme fear-mongering conjured by the radical right and left. If you are going to paint Dr. Fauci as some evil monster you are going to have to submit more compelling evidence than what you have shown so far..and not from some fringe cuckoo website. The fact is nobody knows anything for sure, so why not take precautions just to be safe? This is a health issue, not a political issue. The virus does not care what your politics are.

Seriously, if the mere thought of taking a vaccine shot has you terrified that you are going to be controlled by aliens, Bill Gates, or whatever the latest kook conspiracy is, how do you even manage to get out of bed or step out of the house in the morning? It must be exhausting constantly looking for the bogeymen in your closet and the black helicopters following you.

But I see you reside in the darkest depths of Mordor…so maybe fear is your raison d'être.

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27 minutes ago, Strider said:

No. Just people who use common sense and don't subscribe to the extreme fear-mongering conjured by the radical right and left. If you are going to paint Dr. Fauci as some evil monster you are going to have to submit more compelling evidence than what you have shown so far..and not from some fringe cuckoo website. The fact is nobody knows anything for sure, so why not take precautions just to be safe? This is a health issue, not a political issue. The virus does not care what your politics are.

Seriously, if the mere thought of taking a vaccine shot has you terrified that you are going to be controlled by aliens, Bill Gates, or whatever the latest kook conspiracy is, how do you even manage to get out of bed or step out of the house in the morning? It must be exhausting constantly looking for the bogeymen in your closet and the black helicopters following you.

But I see you reside in the darkest depths of Mordor…so maybe fear is your raison d'être.

The emotionalism and straw-manning of your response is quite telling.  But if you want a "respectable" source, how about the CDC:

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm#Comorbidities

Here's the money quote:

"For 6% of the deaths, COVID-19 was the only cause mentioned. For deaths with conditions or causes in addition to COVID-19, on average, there were 2.6 additional conditions or causes per death."

It's plainly obvious that Covid does not pose the kind of threat to the general population even remotely justifying the harsh measures being taken, including rushing out an untested vaccine.  Like I said:  people like you should self-quarantine for a very long time, reality isn't well-suited for you.

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More "conspiracy theorizing" from the Infectious Diseases Society of America, on how the PCR test is exaggerating the number of cases through over-amplification of the cycle thresholds in the test:

Correlation Between 3790 Quantitative Polymerase Chain Reaction–Positives Samples and Positive Cell Cultures, Including 1941 Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus 2 Isolates | Clinical Infectious Diseases | Oxford Academic (oup.com)

"A new study from the Infectious Diseases Society of America, found that at 25 cycles of amplification, 70% of PCR test "positives" are not "cases" since the virus cannot be cultured, it's dead. And by 35: 97% of the positives are non-clinical."  (quoted from For The First Time, A US State Will Require Disclosure Of PCR 'Cycle Threshold' Data In COVID Tests | Zero Hedge)

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Only denizens of the fever swamps could possibly have any kind of concerns over these vaccines:

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41587-020-00022-y

"No mRNA vaccines have ever reached this late stage of clinical development."

"Still, much about the vaccines’ efficacy and safety — biological details that could shape the course of the vaccines’ impact on containing the pandemic — remain unknown."

https://science.sciencemag.org/content/370/6520/1022

"He says the public should be better prepared than he was, because a subset of people may face intense, if transient, side effects, called reactogenicity, from Moderna's vaccine. Some health experts agree."

Clearly, a bunch of right-wing extremists.

 

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3 hours ago, JohnOsbourne said:

Only denizens of the fever swamps could possibly have any kind of concerns over these vaccines:

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41587-020-00022-y

"No mRNA vaccines have ever reached this late stage of clinical development."

"Still, much about the vaccines’ efficacy and safety — biological details that could shape the course of the vaccines’ impact on containing the pandemic — remain unknown."

https://science.sciencemag.org/content/370/6520/1022

"He says the public should be better prepared than he was, because a subset of people may face intense, if transient, side effects, called reactogenicity, from Moderna's vaccine. Some health experts agree."

Clearly, a bunch of right-wing extremists.

 

I think I understand what you are saying, but most of that is not the issue. The issue is only a weirdo would think having to wear a mask and social distancing is somehow an infringement on someone's freedom. You list the co-morbidity stats however this is the US where over 50% of the population as co-morbidity such as obesity or diabetes. We are one of, if not the most unhealthy population on the planet which is likely why more people in the US are dying than in any other nation.

Regarding the vaccine, by the time people like you and I even qualify to receive it, any issues with the vaccine will be well known and the vaccine pulled if side affects are akin to a zombie apocalypse. IMO, its much ado about nothing regarding the measures we need to do in order to check the virus.

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